Given that I shot at an indoor rifle tube, off a bench, I can not comment as to whether or not the "twang" is gone. I'm in a small room that has a concrete tube in it. Ear plugs & muffs were on.

I shot some TulAmmo 55gr JHP's, AE .223 Varmint Tipped, a few of my hand loads, and snuck in a couple Winchester 5.56 FMJ. The recoil impulse is hard to describe. The difference between the H2 and the Hydraulic was negligible. The recoil impulse is similar to using an H2 buffer, but smoothed out.

I had a carbine buffer in the range bag, and installed it to compare. As expected, the difference between a carbine buffer and hydraulic buffer is very palpable. Less felt recoil, faster follow up shots.

To be honest, is the hydraulic buffer worth it? If you're going from a carbine buffer, yes. Is the hydraulic buffer worth the price? That's a judgement call. A H2 buffer cost me $20 locally. Is the additional $60 worth it for a "smoother" feel? I'm not so sure. Does it satisfy the "I've got a cool esoteric AR15 part."? Yes it does. Will I use it over an H2 buffer? Since I paid for it, yes.

The hydraulic buffer is something you have to experience to judge it's worth. I think we need a few more 1st hand accounts. Tell you guys what. If Grover, Bill, and Maddmax are willing to do it...

I'll send it to Grover. Grover sends it to Bill. Bill sends it to Maddmax. Maddmax sends it back to me. It doesn't matter how long it takes, just as long as the buffer eventually makes it way back to me. Post up your impression of it. I'm sure Grover and Bill will be able to quantify and describe the change in feel using the hydraulic buffer.

If the hydraulic buffer fails while you have it, send it back to me. I'll send the failed part back to the manufacturer and point them to this thread.

This thread gets a few more 1st hand accounts, and no one else has to spend $90+ on one. How about it?

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-John

If you're going to send it around you'd better make it fast as the CA legislature is doing everything in their Democrat-super-majority power to turn my Sport into an outlaw safe queen.

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- Bill

If Grover doesn't mind, I can send it to you first. Then you pass it to Grover, then to Maddmax. PM me your address, and I'll send it out tomorrow.

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-John

John,
Send it to Grover first. He has more opportunity to shoot than me. It'll be a few weeks before I go out to the range again.

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- Bill

Will do. It goes to Grover first.

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-John

Thanks guys. I will test it out. But just to shock you all. I traded/sold my original Sport this week. I still have the one that was given to me and it will stay forever. But I jumped off and had an offer I couldn't turn down. It involves a SS Mini 14, a Custom Damascus Knife and Cash. I will post pics once I get it in hand.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Whoa that is shocking! But it sounds like that really was an offer you couldn't pass up. Cant wait to see that Mini

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-Dik

Folks, if you grease your recoil spring and buffer assembly, it will reduce the twang by quite a bit, the bad news is its a nasty surprise the next time you try to remove it.

Then if Bill wants it,I'll go last or next or how ever it'll work out. Anyway,it will get a good work out and test run. I'm open for anything.

It's in the mail on it's way to Grover. When he's done testing, Grover will pass it on to either Bill or Maddmax.

This should be an interesting thread. I'm looking in my box-o-AR parts to see if there's anything worth passing around for further forum testing & review.

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-John

The sharing idea is great John! Looking forward to more reviews.

Already said it once, but u guys rock! U should see if Zip will pass around his incoming ACOG! Lmao, totally kidding...

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part-time ninja...

if you really want to see an accuracy improvement....lose the flash hider!!

I dont know why I said that.

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Grover Oathkeeper

BadK my girl would shoot me with my own rifle!!! LMAO Joking of course but she'd be pissed!

I'm going to watch this thread for more opinions on H2 vs the ar restor. Might have to go with the H2 as I'm out of cash!!!! Lol

Yeah, $80 is a tough call for this, but I'm still glad I got mine. Everyone said go with the A5, but I jumped on it anyway. No regrets.

Rootbrain

Ok,I want to be reasonably fair (for weight). What did you have mounted on your AR when you tested it and you did use your Sport right ? Standard stock that came with it,orginal handguards ? I want to match what you shot with as close as I can get. I can get back to stock out of the box with no problem if need be. Right now it has a FAB G-Shock stock,Hogue Grip (that shouldn't be a problem there),Scope that needs to be dialed in yet (so I can pull that),quad rail handgrip (I can put the original's back on) and 45 off set BUIS. OR,I can leave as is and see what it does just changing the stocks back & forth. I have the stock buffer and H-2 to compare with and an independent friend to double check "feel". I might give it a go in my T too (also changing stocks back & forth). Thought about the RR,but it's a full length gas,free float,with a 20" barrel. Might try it just for "s&g",but there isn't much kick anyway,it'd be more for smooth if it lets it cycle. That's an unknown yet for a 20" full length gas.

Madmax - i would really like to hear ur thoughts on the T, thats what im gonna be running mine in...

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part-time ninja...

I can't get my sport back to stock configuration as I had to cut my delta ring and spring off (*** ebay barrel wrench failed miserably) when I installed my Apex hand guard.

I have the stock buffer and spring along with a Spikes T2 buffer and JP Ent. tuned spring. So I can do a subjective "feel" test of the hydraulic versus the stock buffer with the stock spring. Then test it against the Spikes buffer and the tuned spring.

One other thing I may be able to do is take my portable audio recorder with me and record the sproing of each combo. I have to see if I can find a mic that I can tape to the buffer tube.

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- Bill

MOE Stock
MIAD Grip
B.A.D. Lever
BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle
Troy Fixed Rear Sight

That's all that's on it. Everything else is stock. I really don't think you need to de-modify your rifle.

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-John

I'm more interested in hearing its effects on any kind of rifle. Just a basic I have my rifle set up how I like it, I dropped this in, it's better/worse than before. So I don't really think anything needs taken off. Who cares if it helps or not on a stock rifle when most of us are FARRRR from stock haha

That and if it's hot enough out that gunk can run down and get in your lower if you are single slinging it. Not good either.

Just doing it for the team . The Sport Fans and one for the T fans too.

I'll shoot my Sport as it sits now first. I'll swap out my stock buffer to an H-2 buffer,then your hyd buffer after I shoot with each buffer.

Grover's Sport is "loaded" his way. So that report will tell how his works.

Bill's is set up his own way too. His report will give his story.

Then I'll swap my quad handguard and G-Shock buttstock,back to stock handguard, stock buttstock (to keep our's closer to the same weight) and shoot with your hyd buffer,then back to my t-2 buffer,then stock buffer again. That can be the M&P Sport comparisons with "almost" the same weight Sports.

Right now,mine is a bit nose heavy with the quadrail hand guard,scope,G-Shock buttstock,off set BUIS. I haven't zero'd the scope yet or loc-tite the handguard,so not a big deal taking them off and it gives a bit of a loaded down view too.

I'll switch my T's G-Shock buttstock,back to the original stock and do a stock buffer,t-2 buffer and the hyd buffer with that one too for the "T" fans. It's a bit heavier than the Sport anyway.

I don't think my G-Shock will make much difference either way,but it does take up some recoil with its built in buffer. More for 308 over 5.56.

Im starting to wonder if i messed up gettin a T rather than a sport, since it seems so many of the guys who know the answers and the details all run sports...i got mine before i found the forum...never shot a sport...

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part-time ninja...

BadK, I got a sport because of the price, if I would have had more money and I would have gotten something else. When I first got mine a little over a year ago. You are right the EBR disease had a hold of me and I had some more discretionary spending money so I made changes and many of the people here did the same thing and we all learned together. Whether it is a Sport or a T it doesnt matter. Not everyone has a sport. Some people really love having a dustcover,

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Grover Oathkeeper

No, you didn't mess up, especially if you got the newest version of the T. The new T is a dressed up Sport! Many of us would have purchased that new T had they been in the wild when we bought the Sports.

oneeye - ya, i gotta say the dustcover was one aspect i like...wanted it to have the functional closeness to an actualy M4 so i felt as familiar with it as possible, and i knew i would have used a rail setup, the T already had it...the one feature i really DIDN'T want that M4s have was the fixed front sight, so when you take those 3 added together, and you eliminated the ones i couldnt afford at the time (LMT, YHM, some custom shop-made elite build), the T was right where i wanted it to be -- just got to noticing how many of you guys talk about your sports, and was thinkin maybe i should have gone more of the do-it-yourself way than buying one that had most of the features i wanted to start with...oh well

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part-time ninja...

No worries. I went backwards too and got the T for many of the same reasons as you did, only I liked the FA myself (that just brought the hair up on Grover's neck LMAO). Actually,I got a fantastic deal before all this garbage started and picked up a "T" for about the same price as the Sport. Then later on,I got a great deal on the Sport and couldn't turn it down either just before shtf and we are where we are at now. In the long run,it's a bit cheaper to get the "T". By the time you switch out the Sport with all the "goodies",the "T" is cheaper in the long run with its (already added) head start AND you don't have to worry about getting the "hard sight" off the Sport and changing to a lower height gas block. You did real good

yay! thanks...i feel better now...i actually got the T in december, about 10 days before everything blew up...bought an HK MP5 .22 for a fun tactical-lookin toy, and was in the middle of tricking it all out with ridiculous accessories when the shtf, and should have been saving those little purchases to get ammo/mags/important stuff (like an acog -- right zip? lol) overall, i think i have my personal little anti-zombie arsenal about complete, just a few accessories and optics left to purchase...it's always a fun day at the farm when the old target (refrigerator painted florescent orange) gets dropped out in the field for us to plink at, and i get to back the suburban up and start breaking out the fun-guns...

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part-time ninja...

Look at it this way. We have a Sport T "Sporty"

And too,once all this garbage going on right now with all the outragous prices starts to settle back down and the bottom falls out. You could pick up a nice new Sport cheap and still do your own build. Just don't get in a rush quite yet. You'll also find out quite a few people have more than one AR on here too.

You did great man. Here's what I have in my sport (originally thinking all I would need is ammo)

Sport - $700
Quad rail - $30 (thanks to Grover heads up
Magpul ladder rails - $25
Magpul buttstock - $60
Magpul pistol grip - $15
Front swing swivel - $30
VTAC sling - $45
Raptor ambi charging handle - $80
Troy tritium rear sights - $155
Trijicon tritium front sight post - $55
AGOC - $1338

Ouch!!! lol

That's just the rifle!!

mmmmmm...sounds nice...lol...hey, just off-hand, can i change out the sight posts on the flip-sights for luminescent ones, or do i gotta replace the entire sight? i'm at work, not near my rifle to see if they come all the way out...just curious

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part-time ninja...

If "We" run the gambit with different set ups,it will let people know if it's worth an extra $60 for a hyd buffer or just get the $20. H-2 when their "stock" buffer takes a dump and just be done with it.

Being I can almost match John's AR for weight,it will be two different opinions on "almost" the same AR. I think weapon weight is going to be one selling factor on this buffer. With a heavier weight weapon you will feel less felt recoil than with a lighter one. So,I'm looking for smoother felt recoil and also how the BCG feels durring its cycling while ejecting and feeding a new round. It might be worth the extra $$ if it helps keep the BCG from beating itself to death.

I don't think you will find a more independent study. John put up the hyd-buffer,we're putting up the different equipment,different brands of ammo and postage. In the end when John gets it back,he can shoot it again and see if it still has the same "feel" as it did before it left. He'll also know how many rounds have been through it,then keep track of what he shoots until it fails.

Remember Sporting Rifle. I did my first Sport on a lot of "seconds" and overruns and over a year ago, you could find them and get them cheap. I am very fortunate that it turned out as nice as it did...and no I have never used the FA and if that upper receiver hadn't had the Marines laser etched into it and I got it cheap it would have never happened. I didnt play on fixing mine up and after I shot it and realized that this wasnt my Daddy's M16 she became a dedicated hunting rifle. The one I am keeping looks like a Sport except for the tubular free float handguard, no front sight and no flash supressor. although the barrel was and still is the big thing for me and back then only certain models had this barrel. After some of the other models got this barrel the price came down on them. until the crazyness.

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Grover Oathkeeper

Zip how about a pic of the rifle with that shiny new ACOG and all the other goodies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK the buffer got here today, and it is snowing. Anyhow I guess I expected it to be bigger or something. I also expected way more hydraulic resistance than what it has. Too me it really doesnt feel like a hydraulic buffer but spring loaded inside. Whatever valving inside pretty well lets it free flow the fluid. You can tell it has a bit of damping but I guess I expected more, I would have thought it would be like a nitrogen filled shock I guess. It looks nice and is well made so in the next couple of days I will get out and shoot it through both sports and see what I get.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I think I was thinking more of something like the nitrogen shock as well. Didn't realize that there was a spring inside. Just manipulating it with your hands is there any twang?

There is no spring. It is hydraulic.

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-John

I was just thinking the fluid would have to free flow to damped a sudden force quickly. If not the forces would run thru the shoulder more than a conventional spring which compresses pretty easily.

There is no twang..it feels like there is a hydraulically dampened spring in there but I am not taking it apart to find out. Using your hands to operate it you can feel that it is dampened especailly when going fast. This will be fun to try.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I was going to ask about the speed vs dampening. Like if you gave it a decent smack with your palm I would guess it stiffens a lot sooner. That's how the steering dampener works on my street bike. Turning the bars slow, you barely realize it's there, but try to shove the bars one direction or the other and they stop in a jiffy.

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-Dik

When I get if from Grover I'll go Myth Busters on it and take some slow motion video of the recoil...or at least I'll try since my camera will only shoot four seconds of slo-mo video at a time. But I won't be shooting for accuracy so I think I can line up and pull the trigger in that amount of time

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- Bill

Posted a couple of times on my experience with the Endine Restor, just want everyone to know that my AR-15 is not S&W incase i've inadvertantly misled anyone.

Mine is 6920, pretty much stock except for NV scope, RDS (switch them out as needed) and the hydraulic buffer.

Is your Endine Restor anythin like this ?

AR-15/AR-STYLE .308 JPSCS SILENT CAPTURED SPRING SYSTEM | Brownells

Rootbrain...it doesnt matter what you shoot (although a lot of us are pretty partial to our S&W's) it all boils down to attitude and the fact that you are a contributing member of our little group. Some people have come in here with the attitude that their rifle is better because of a roll mark. underneath they are basically all the same and having a friendly helpfull noncompetitive forum is a plus.

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Grover Oathkeeper

I want a PONY DAMMIT!!! lol

Zippy get you a pony then!!!

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Grover Oathkeeper

Nope, this is the one I commented on, and I'm liking it. I do think on a 300 or 308 upper, the felt recoil reduction would be more noticeable.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...1.aspx?ttver=1

Rootbrain

Now I'm too poor for a pony. I'm too poor for food. Can a brother spare a dime?? Lol

That's why I'm here. Some sites, often referred to as TOS, and there are more than one, I hesitate when contributing. If some accessory or whatever doesn't match the paramilitary mind set, well its basically wasted money, time, whatever.

But never here.

Rootbrain