Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Optics-Ready Centerfire Rifle Package
I bought this last month online from Gander Mountain and it was pictured and I believe it mentioned the flash reducer too, but when it arrived, nada, and no threads. Since I plan to use this for home defense is it that big of a deal or should I take it somewhere and have it threaded and buy a brake or flash reducer?

Gosh that is annoying. If returning isn't what you want to do, I would be inclined to leave it alone....

ADCO has a good shop, and can thread it. That said, it might be easier to exchange for the one you want.

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I think all sales are final on gun sales. ARgh Makes me mad though. Wonder IF I called S&W IF they'd offer any assistance to my problem since they are advertising with it pictured on there?

I have an ORC, like it, and don't miss the flash hider at all.

It is my belief, (correct me if I am wrong), that the flash hider, makes the rifle LOUDER, to the user. Certainly to the people next to you, at the range.

As I am not currently in a desert combat environment. I see no use for it, other than to look "military".

There is a certain AR-15 forum, where you would be drummed out, if you didn't have a mil-spec rifle, flash hider and all.

To each his own.

__________________
NRA Instructor

The OR I bought in Feb had a flash suppressor...

Does your state ban them?

__________________
Kirk / Spock 2020

OK couldn't find it on S&W site SKU 150645

here is link to Ganders page for it suppose to be Gander Exclusive

Smith Wesson MP 15 Optics-Ready Centerfire Rifle Package - Gander Mountain

These are just my opinions, not facts so please don't regard them as such.
Gander is too pricey and their "firearms associates" know less about the industry then our current VP. (In my area anyway)
And as far as home defense goes, get yourself something more maneuverable.
An AR15 is a spectacular weapon but overall it is pushing around 34 inches, a 1911 or 4" revolver is much more suited to the job of protecting your home with much less risk of flying through the wall and God forbid hitting something you weren't aiming for.
More to the point, are you sure the model you ordered was threaded and do you have a link to the model you ordered?
If so this is a dealer mistake and one you should take to their corporate office.

__________________
27-2, 66-1, 640 Pro, 10-5

Well, I emailed S&W and included the link and serial number so I'll wait the up to 3 days to hear from them. I also have a couple of other guns. Colt .357, Ruger LCR .357 and LCP .380 and just recently a Remington 20 gauge shotgun but I can't find any ammo for it yet.

Hmmm... I s'pose you could do the double whammy and stick a different upper on it, or just swap out the barrel.
Those things aren't so complicated as to be beyond the reach of the home ordnance guy.

That Gander page has a lot of errors on it. Biggest one is that it says it comes with a 5r barrel, Melonited barrel. The OR comes with a traditional rifled barrel that is chrome lined. Also states it has an integral trigger guard, but the OR does not.

In other words, the description does not match what you have. If you do not have a 5r rifled barrel, tell Gander to take it back...if you are not happy with what you received, because it is not as advertised. The pic also shows a 30 rd magazine, but the description states 10 rounds.

Oh dear, I guess I better try and call them tomorrow. I feel like maybe I jumped the gun when I bought this and they and other models go in and out of stock so quickly but it was a lot of money. I feel like I really messed up.

I wouldn't say that you "messed up", as much as it just sounds like you are not happy. The item is not as advertised. The picture clearly has a flash hider and yours does not.

If you are unhappy, then call Gander Mtn. and tell them that you are unhappy and that the rifle is not as advertised. If they are unwilling to work with you, call your credit card company and dispute the charges. Just save that ad before it disappears. The rifle they are selling is not the same specs as advertised. You have many things that you can state are not as advertised other than just the flash hider.

If you like the rifle other than the lack of the flash hider, perhaps GM will discount the rifle enough to purchase a flash hider and have it installed by a local gunsmith.

I have a Colt Lightweight Sporter that was made several years ago
when certain restrictions were in effect. It has a 16" lightweight barrel
with no flash hider and there is no bayonet lug on the gun. The plain
barrel gives the rifle a slightly more compact look and the gun is a bit
shorter without the flash hider stuck on the end of the barrel. I like
it the way it is and see no useful purpose for a flash hider for a rifle
not likely to be used in a combat situation. The military look is just
for looks and you might find that over time you will come to like your
rifle as it is.

One of the people who wrote a review stated there was no flash hider.

One thing you need to consider is that a flash hider can have adverse effects on accuracy. A lot of National Match AR's do not have flash hiders for this reason.

What I don't understand is why the gun was not taken out of the box and examined prior to the OP walking out of the store. I've examined every gun I've ever purchased for cosmetic defects. Even with a special order, you certainly have more leverage to correct defects if they are noted before you leave the store. In this case, the OP could have refused to accept the rifle for not being as advertised.

Good luck on getting Gander Mountain corporate management to do anything.

A flash suppressor is designed to reduce the blinding effects of a muzzle flash at night, to the shooter. They don't hide the flash, they just "reshape" it into a star-like pattern in lieu of a "big ball-o-flame".

A muzzle brake on the other hand, reduces recoil. The two are different.

A flash suppressor will make no difference if you use your M&P 15 for home defense, because you won't notice the blinding effects when your ears are bleeding from the noise in a confined space.

In other words, 12 ga. shotgun and electronic hearing protectors are better.

I live in California and have a compliant 10 round bullet button OR that came with a muzzle break. I just looked at the S&W site and sure enough, it looks like the are 2 different sku's for the compliant models. If you look under the compliant tab, the CA model is sku# 151009 and the CR, MA, MD, NJ sku# is 811013.

If they won't help him, his credit card company that he put the charge on will. They advertise it with a collapsible stock, 5R melonite barrel, and an integral trigger guard...those last two describe a Sport or 15T, not an OR model. And it can't have a 6 position stock and be Maryland compliant at the same time to my knowledge, yet the page says both. Gander screwed the goose on this one!

I do agree that the OP should have looked at the rifle before accepting it, but when you order online, you have already paid your money to the store. I don't know that you could just refuse it at your FFL. I'm not familiar with what that process would be though. Anybody ever gone through that?

The link to the Gander web page you posted is not working for me currently...

Maybe they are changing it...

I'm a she . . . and I did look at in the store but wasn't sure about exactly when sales being final took place, when I clicked buy online or what . . . as the charge had already gone through days before shipping and arrival at store. I should have spoke up sooner, I said something but the guy pretty much brushed off my concern. My husband & I plan to take a tactical training course here locally and this purchase was more of a last resort self defense IF things ever got really ugly . . . like last week IF we lived in Boston, I'd have been sitting in my recliner with the rifle in hand ready to shoot IF a crazed terrorist came busting through the door. I feel like I screwed up on this purchase . . . but will try calling Gander and see what they say. Thanks for all the replies everybody.

OK, I just called and they said just bring it back to the store. I don't like that they are not accurate with their online descriptions. Bait and switch. Maybe part my fault but I think it is their fault for not accurately advertising the merchandise.

Your responsibility to look it over before you fill out the paper work. If it’s not what you want don’t take it. your FFL should have let you look at it so you would know it is what you ordered if not they could ship it back. At least that's what my FFL wants us to do.

I'm glad it looks like it will work out for you. That's not been my experience with Gander.

To answer cyphertext, the gun's not yours until you pass the background check. You may have problems getting your money back if you pay with a check, but your credit card company should take care of you if you used the card and refused to accept the gun for a legitimate reason. Some FFL's tell you up front what it will cost you if they special order and you flunk the background check.

......................................

Ummm 30 mag is LEGAL in MY STATE as is the 6 position stock. THEY had the description wrong. How am I to read their mind? It is their job to accurately describe what they are selling? No?

Otherwise is it on me to know the laws in the other 50 states? A red flag for me would have been CA or NY or CT but everything has worked out so all is well. Lesson learned by me. And they said they'd correct website.

Yes, it was ordered from Gander and shipped to my local Gander store. Yes, it was Maryland compliant BUT the description didn't quite describe it accurately and no I don't live in Maryland. They took it back with no problem and I will watch the website and the store for a replacement. I could have lived without the flash hider but the 6 position adjustable stock was a deal breaker for me. So in the long run I will be happier with getting what I ordered and paid for.

Oh and corporate told the manager they would make sure the website was updated to accurately reflect the specifications.

Yes to an extent. For instance, If I bought a Colt AR advertised on a website..... It is shown with a Flash Hider and a collapsible stock, which I know is not legal in my state. They use stock pics half the time. I have dealt with a lot of distributors and seen this a lot of times.

It was up to me to know this and know I would be getting the legal version for my state, which was a muzzle brake and fixed, pinned stock.

If the gun was advertised as Maryland gun and you did not get what was shown you have a beef.

Don't buy online, and put your hands on it before you buy.

Live with the no flash hider. Unless you plan on going to war soon, it's not a big deal.

For in house self defense use, be sure and use FRANGIBLE ammo. Look it up. Easier than explaining, but you won't kill a neighbor.

I think the easiest way to go about it next time is to make sure the SKU of what they are advertising is what you want. You can take their SKU number they have listed and go to whatever manufacturer of the gun and look up the specifications. And others correct me if I am wrong but I believe guns that meet compliance have totally different SKU's than the non-compiant guns of the same model. That way when you go to pickup all you have to do is check the SKU on the box and you know you have your gun.

As far as the flash hider, yeah you really don't need it as all have said but that doesn't change the fact that you wanted it. (or it sure seemed it) I wouldn't apologize for that or try and justify that it's ok not to have it. Yes we need guns for the practical purpose but at the same time we also want it to look "cool" too. When you spend that much on something it better have all you want and who the heck cares if that silly military flash hider has a practical importance or not. It dang sure needs to be there or you will kick yourself in the butt for not making an issue of it.

So glad things worked out and let us know when the new one comes in.

Thanks, lagavulin62

It was certainly a learning experience. I couldn't find a match for the SKU on the S&W last night at all. Heard back from them today too and they said it was an exclusive for GM and I'd need to deal with them. Happy to see, it worked out, now will patiently wait for a replacement. They are very hard to come by here locally, just last week I stood in line outside for 1/2 an hour just to get some ammo for some of our handguns and some .223's. Nice friendly crowd, several police cars directing traffic and keeping everything orderly. The fire marshal limited store capacity and when about ten would come out with their purchases, they'd let ten more in . . . at least it wasn't raining.

Qwackertoo: I am glad it worked out, but if it was not as advertised do not accept it. The flash hider/ muzzle break should be there if advertised and more importantly the barrel is threaded if you want the break/FH/suppressor. You said you do not have 20 ga ammo locally? The shotgun would prob be my first choice of HD with the handgun close behind, but as you said if the SHTF/terrorist I want a multiple shot weapon to take care of multiple threats. Your ammo can be soft point/amax/vmax, it does not have to be frangible, but it is all dependent on your home and location. I could use AP in 223/308 and still never get near a neighbor. Look at your conditions, test the walls ( if you have drywall, insulation,outside board,siding ) Put that combination together and shoot it and see what your bullet does on your wall. I use Win Ranger Power Point since I have seen that it is effective. If you can not find 20 ga I am sure someone here can help. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

Thank you for your post. Yep, can't find anything except bird shot around here for shotgun shells.

We live in a neighborhood where the houses are on almost 1 acre lots so the homes aren't close together like they are in many subdivisions. And the exterior is brick so I guess that helps too. I do worry IF in middle of night going through walls, but our home is split as in master bedroom on one side of house and other three bedrooms clear on the other side and now only son over there but daughter will be coming home from college next week.

I actually worry more about a home invasion during the day when I'm home alone than something at night or during the weekends when everyone is home. I have a carry permit too, finally my husband got his the following year. Still need to sign up for the tactical training course that is a step up from the basic self defense concealed carry course.

Thanks again!

Qwakertoo: # 4,5,6 birdshot in a 20 ga will be highly effective in a HD situation of 30 ft or less. I will not get graphic but it" will stop an attack" I am sure that is available, if not it can be. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

Nope, just #7 or 7.5. But I will keep looking.

When I bought my little Ruger .380 a couple of years ago, little did I know ammo was impossible to find for it, took me 4 months to find it. Now that is why I like my old Colt Python or Cobra, never can remember which one it is, .357 and my newer Ruger .357 LCR. Figure I can shoot .38 or .357 but usually .38's. I keep thinking supply will get better these past couple of years but not so much, it is worse.

I'm going to disagree with this statement. Birdshot is for, well, birds. It is not reliable enough to bet on stopping an attack. It does not reliably penetrate far enough to hit vitals. The wounds are nasty looking, kinda like hamburger, but are shallow.

I see two more back in stock and neither say compliant for any state. Although one if 400.00 higher.

https://secure.gandermountain.com/modperl/cart/cart.cgi for 1099.00

Smith Wesson MP 15 Optics-Ready Centerfire Rifle Package - Gander Mountain for 1499.00

pro's or con's for either? Or is it just better to be patient and wait for a more reasonable 699.00 or 799.00 model? I really want the S&W over and above a Bushmaster. I think the quality is better with S&W or I could be wrong.

Any opinions? I doubt I find one locally anytime soon. They have people waiting around on the days FedEx delivers and they are immediately snatched up.

I see two more back in stock and neither say compliant for any state. Although one if 400.00 higher.

https://secure.gandermountain.com/modperl/cart/cart.cgi for 1099.00

Smith Wesson MP 15 Optics-Ready Centerfire Rifle Package - Gander Mountain for 1499.00

pro's or con's for either? Or is it just better to be patient and wait for a more reasonable 699.00 or 799.00 model? I really want the S&W over and above a Bushmaster. I think the quality is better with S&W or I could be wrong.

Any opinions? I doubt I find one locally anytime soon. They have people waiting around on the days FedEx delivers and they are immediately snatched up.

Cyphertext- The wounds are nasty indeed and the shots were from 15-30 ft on 3 different individuals. They were all deceased at the time I saw them and were missing large portions of their sternum, lungs, and heart. After looking at them and comparing shot size, 4,5,6 were used respectively and only one shot was fired. Clothing was tshirt + shirt/, t shirt/ light jacket, t shirt+ shirt+ light jacket. I do not know the choke of the shotguns used, and no I can not post photos. I do not know of any gelatin tests that I could compare/contrast, maybe the 20 would not do well on gelatin! I only have these 3 examples that I saw. I would prefer a 12 ga with 00,000 buck for myself and that is what I use. Be Safe,

__________________
I BACK OUR BLUE

I have experimented with flash hiders and muzzle brakes....My rifle is way more accurate without them...I would suggest leaving it alone...it is also quieter without out it installed.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

I agree with Cypher totally, plus the shot doesnt start opening up until it is out there a little bit. Under 30 feet you are almost shooting a slug.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

The Gander Mountain page that you listed shows a rifle with a flash hider. If yours has none, I believe that alone is grounds for a refund. If they refused to do this, I would stop doing business with them and tell everyone I know how they conducted themselves.

some states flash hiders or even threaded muzzles are illegal!!

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

I stopped by a Gander Mountain in Salisbury, MD for the first time in my life a few months ago on our way down to Chincoteague,VA. Anyway, we just loved all the inventory they had and figured on spending a descent amount of money while we were there. But we couldn't get anybody to wait on us. After an hour and 30 minutes we decided to stop back by on the way home. Same thing...nobody would wait on us...customer service reps would just walk right past us (we even had to take a number at the gun counter and they still refused to wait on us with number in hand!). Finally we left without spending a dime. By the time I got home (1hr30min drive) I was really ticked off. I usually don't do this type of thing but I sent them an email about my experience there. A manager called me the next day explaining they have been busy and they have been using different dept personnel to cover the extra business at the gun counter. But overall I didn't think he truly gave a fart one way or the other. From the conversations I heard while standing in line the employees didn't know their products and worst of all really didnt seem like they cared to even be there. Sorry had to get that off my chest about Gander Mt. but I wont step foot back in there after the treatment I received. I am glad they seem to be working things out for you. You should surely be getting what you paid for.

Use home defense ammo, like winchester pdx 60 grain hollow point, and it will solve the over penetration issue. One center mass placement with a 60+ grain 2700+ fps hollow point round will end the fight.

I prefer to have on standby an ar15 tactical setup over a shotgun for critical home defense. 30 rounds, an eotech 512 cowitnessed, and tactical light with laser.

dont get me wrong, though. For a simple intruder one shotgun blast will tear off chunks from his torso. But what if there is more than one? The violent home invasions are planned and bring 2 or 3 armed bad guys. I just dont feel that a shotgun is really the best home defense weapon when u factor everything in.

Many shotguns hold more than one round...even Joe Biden's holds two!

At hallway distance, nothing beats the shotgun. With 00 Buck, I am putting 9 .30 cal pellets into center of mass with one pull of the trigger. At the distance from my bedroom doorway, down the hallway and into the living room, those 9 pellets have about a 4 inch spread.

They dont spread at short ranges. They need 25 yards to start spreading. You still have to aim with it. I prefer 30 rounds over 7 with less recoil.

You are mistaken. You don't need 25 yards before they spread. If I had to shoot 25 yards before the shot would spread, I would never hit a flying dove when hunting. You have just proven that you have no clue what you are talking about.

My HD shotgun has about a 4 inch spread at 7 yards. I know this, as I have tested my shotgun with my particular load at that range. I know what kind of pattern to expect.

I am not concerned with recoil, as I have grown up hunting with a shotgun and am capable of handling it. If you are involved in a gun fight in your home that requires 30 rounds, you probably are not walking away from it.

The rifle exceeds the shotguns capabilities when it comes to distance and / or precision shooting. But again, down the hallway, the shotgun is king.

That is interesting, as it goes against gelatin tests, but when one loses large portions of their sternum, lungs, and heart, they are probably going to stop. Any idea on how long it took for them to shut down and no longer be a threat? I would assume with that damage, it would be immediate.

For very close in house personal protection my wife has a 20 guage pump. Our house is 24ft wide and 36ft long. Even with number 6 shot that would hurt alot. Part of our protection scheme is our farm animals. To protect the poultry and pygmy goats I have to be precise. So I can see a purpose for owning both. For our farm protection I can see where a savage 42v would be awesome.

__________________
Grover Oathkeeper

Agree Grover, both have their place. I don't have much land outside the walls of my home, just the average suburbia sized yard, so I just don't need the range that the rifle gives. There are limited scenarios that I would possibly need the precision, but most are unlikely.