M&P 15T vs 15T (Troy)
- Thread starter SAWMAN
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The Troy rail is better than the heavy UTG rail in the current set up, and the sights are better than the MBUS. Just depends what you are willing to pay and if you plan on making any modifications. I personally would like the 1:8 barrel with the new 15T.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Why is the Troy free float better than the current one?
Because UTG is lesser quality across the board than Troy.....
Rastoff
US Veteran
OK, I understand that Leapers stuff is made in China and may not be the best, but saying it's lower quality means nothing to me.
What is lower quality? Quality control? Materials? Is the Troy stiffer? Does the UTG not fit as well? Is it heavier? Too thin? What is it that makes you say it's lower quality?
Edit:
I just checked and not all the UTG stuff is made in China. Much of it is made in the US.
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Not trying to be rude, but as long as it took you to respond to this thread, you could have done 5 minutes of research and come to your own conclusion.
UTG is made my Leapers, with most of their items being built in China, much of it for Airsoft applications.....so in other words, INFERIOR products in my opinion compared to Troy, Midwest Industries, YHM, Diamondhead, Seekins etc.
I must concede however, that the UTG on my 15T (albeit bulky and heavy) has served me well and is made to spec.
UTG is made my Leapers, with most of their items being built in China, much of it for Airsoft applications.....so in other words, INFERIOR products in my opinion compared to Troy, Midwest Industries, YHM, Diamondhead, Seekins etc.
I must concede however, that the UTG on my 15T (albeit bulky and heavy) has served me well and is made to spec.
Rastoff
US Veteran
That's why I asked for some specifics. You see, I have done a lot of research on parts like this and, in fact, own a few. I also have a UTG free float forearm on one of my ARs and it seems to be very nice and it was made in the US as are most of their forearms.
I realize that UTG has a reputation for lower end products, but my personal experience, as well as what I've read about, seems to show that their products are at least acceptable. Therefore, I see no reason to spend another $400 on a product just to get something that doesn't really make any improvement. Maybe you have specific information or experience with the Troy forearm that could lend some light as to why it's better than the UTG.
This is why we come here, to discuss our experiences. I admit that I have limited experience with multiple vendors of things like free float forearms. That's why I asked what I did.
Just saying, "Brand X sucks" gives us nothing to go on but an opinion that a certain person doesn't like them. However, if a person responds with, "Widget Y is much better because it's lighter, but retains the necessary rigidity of a free float forearm" then that makes sense to me.
I have a UTG PRO Model4/AR Mid Length Super Slim Free Float Handguard. It's 9" long and not as large around as most forearms. It weighs about 10oz so, it's not very heavy. The rails are configurable so, you don't have to have a rail where you're not using it. This makes it more comfortable than the standard 4 rail models. I found the installation much easier than other forearms. Also, it is quite rigid.
I'd be surprised if the UTG on the 15T is any lower quality. This is why I asked why you thought the Troy was better. Maybe you have some experience with it and can extol it's features.
I realize that UTG has a reputation for lower end products, but my personal experience, as well as what I've read about, seems to show that their products are at least acceptable. Therefore, I see no reason to spend another $400 on a product just to get something that doesn't really make any improvement. Maybe you have specific information or experience with the Troy forearm that could lend some light as to why it's better than the UTG.
This is why we come here, to discuss our experiences. I admit that I have limited experience with multiple vendors of things like free float forearms. That's why I asked what I did.
Just saying, "Brand X sucks" gives us nothing to go on but an opinion that a certain person doesn't like them. However, if a person responds with, "Widget Y is much better because it's lighter, but retains the necessary rigidity of a free float forearm" then that makes sense to me.
I have a UTG PRO Model4/AR Mid Length Super Slim Free Float Handguard. It's 9" long and not as large around as most forearms. It weighs about 10oz so, it's not very heavy. The rails are configurable so, you don't have to have a rail where you're not using it. This makes it more comfortable than the standard 4 rail models. I found the installation much easier than other forearms. Also, it is quite rigid.
I'd be surprised if the UTG on the 15T is any lower quality. This is why I asked why you thought the Troy was better. Maybe you have some experience with it and can extol it's features.
I have a UTG PRO Super Slim rail on my AR, is every bit the quality of most rails costing 2 to 3 times the money. Very ridged, and a quality made in the USA piece. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a rifle with one of their better rails on it, this is not airsoft quality junk.
ChattanoogaPhil
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Would it be "worth" (subjective term) the extra price? I would not pay for UTG parts on a S&W AR anymore than I would pay for Taurus parts on a S&W revolver. IMO, it does not add "worth" just on brand name alone.
S&W advertised Troy parts on the old 15t but now just advertises "10" Patent Pending, Anti-Twist, Free-Floating Rail" with no mention of manufacturer though they do advertise MBUS. Why no mention of UTG? So what is this design that no one but the battle proven geniuses at UTG have come up with to patent? Or is this a S&W-spec item that UTG was contracted to make?
Rastoff asks excellent questions. The UTG Pro series is supposed to be made in America and with aircraft grade aluminum. I have never seen one so I can't speak to the design, fit or finish. Is in fact a Pro Series UTG handguard what's on the new 15t? In any case, UTG parts and plastic MBUS would not get me digging very deep in my wallet.
S&W advertised Troy parts on the old 15t but now just advertises "10" Patent Pending, Anti-Twist, Free-Floating Rail" with no mention of manufacturer though they do advertise MBUS. Why no mention of UTG? So what is this design that no one but the battle proven geniuses at UTG have come up with to patent? Or is this a S&W-spec item that UTG was contracted to make?
Rastoff asks excellent questions. The UTG Pro series is supposed to be made in America and with aircraft grade aluminum. I have never seen one so I can't speak to the design, fit or finish. Is in fact a Pro Series UTG handguard what's on the new 15t? In any case, UTG parts and plastic MBUS would not get me digging very deep in my wallet.
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cyphertext
US Veteran
I believe it to be one of the UTG Pro Series handguards. Nothing factual, because S&W isn't saying... but based on comparing photos of the two rails, they look the same, and appear to bolt on the same.
I think if the Pro Series was branded under a different name other than UTG, they would be more accepted. It appears that they are making a very good product for the price point, but can't shake the UTG stigma. From what I have seen, they seem to be well machined, no issues with things fitting on the rails, anodizing is good, and they aren't too heavy. They are a couple ounces heavier than some of the competition, but they are also less expensive.
BillyJack2012
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I'm with you on the branding. Kind of like Hyundai. They have some really nice stuff out there now but you're just not going to see a Hyundai in my driveway...
You just answered your own question. The first Gen 15T, S&W promoted their rifle with Troy parts because Troy is accepted in the industry for quality. With the latest iteration, they use the terms patent pending to dress up the fact that they are using a crappy, heavy UTG rail......just as I specified in my previous post!
shawnfergie
Well-known member
Actually the UTG Pro stuff is machined in the States, Michigan in fact.
Machining is done in Livonia with some pretty decent CNC machines.
Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear
That being said.... I would still go with the Troy
Machining is done in Livonia with some pretty decent CNC machines.
Leapers, Inc. - Hunting/Shooting, Sporting Goods and Security Gear
That being said.... I would still go with the Troy
Rastoff
US Veteran
Like I've said, I have a UTG Pro Super Slim 9" free float forearm on my AR and I like it very much.
So far, the only real complaint is that the UTG is heavy. How much does it weigh? What do the competitors weigh? I went to the Troy and Yankee Hill websites and couldn't find any specs for weight. If the same forearm from another competitor weighs only .2oz less, I wouldn't call that a $400 difference.
And, to add insult to injury, no one actually knows that the forearm on the 15T is made by UTG. Yet, many seem ready to bash it as such.
As far as I can tell, the UTG forearm as everything going for it. It's made in the USA (I guess if you live in some other country that's not a plus), it's rigid/strong and has a low cost (I saved about $100 over the next closest competitor). The only thing that I'm hearing that makes the UTG not as good is the name. Sorry, but the name means nothing when it comes to actual use.
So, for the OP, if the only difference is the forearm being made by Troy vs some unknown brand, I say save the $400 and spend it on optics.
So far, the only real complaint is that the UTG is heavy. How much does it weigh? What do the competitors weigh? I went to the Troy and Yankee Hill websites and couldn't find any specs for weight. If the same forearm from another competitor weighs only .2oz less, I wouldn't call that a $400 difference.
And, to add insult to injury, no one actually knows that the forearm on the 15T is made by UTG. Yet, many seem ready to bash it as such.
As far as I can tell, the UTG forearm as everything going for it. It's made in the USA (I guess if you live in some other country that's not a plus), it's rigid/strong and has a low cost (I saved about $100 over the next closest competitor). The only thing that I'm hearing that makes the UTG not as good is the name. Sorry, but the name means nothing when it comes to actual use.
So, for the OP, if the only difference is the forearm being made by Troy vs some unknown brand, I say save the $400 and spend it on optics.
ChattanoogaPhil
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Now I'm curious...
Did your 15t come with the 10'' handgaurd that S&W is now advertising?
How is it labeled, UTG Pro, something else or not at all?
What patent pending anti-rotation device are they using that greatly differentiates, if at all, from others? Is it tight or does it rotate?
What does it weigh?
What is the finish like?
Right. I was asking in the other thread and I'm not sure we ever nailed it down exactly how it has been determined to be UTG. If Catch8 says it's marked UTG then that pretty well answers that.
For YHM handgaurd weight just click on the partular one you are interested in and a page will pop up with the Specifications including weight.
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SmokeStack Lightning
Well-known member
Hmmmmmmmmmmm My 15T's (bought 6-1-13) quad rail sez "Smith&Wesson" in white scrolling.........no UTG markings on it anywhere.
Also, S&W web page on the rifle sez "Patent Pending" 10" free float rail.
I imagine UTG has the patent on their rail........No?
Also, S&W web page on the rifle sez "Patent Pending" 10" free float rail.
I imagine UTG has the patent on their rail........No?
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cyphertext
US Veteran
The Troy sights that came on the old 15T said Smith and Wesson too... it's rebranding parts purchased on contract. S&W didn't make that rail.
Rastoff
US Veteran
No large manufacturer these days makes everything in house. They all outsource lots of things. It's possible that Leapers makes the rail for S&W to their specs. Thus, S&W can put their name on it because it's made specifically for S&W. This is just like the fact that S&W M&P magazines are made by Mec Gar.
So yesterday I was told by an M&P tech support rep that the rail is still made by Troy. But after a reply from someone about that in another forum, I decided to call S&W back today.
I just called S&W again, an you're right! It is a UTG rail. MAN, am I LIVID! I cannot get my deposit back from my LGS and cancel my order.
I tore the rep a new A-hole. S&W just lost a customer for life. My family has owned S&W firearms since S&W existed. He said he would speak with the IT department to have the info on their website updated to show that the rail is UTG and no longer Troy. I'm not going to hold my breath.
At least it still comes with the 1:8 5R barrel
