Was I wrong?

[AGoyette]

Today when loading my VTAC II with my 10 round mag (I am only allowed to use 10 round mags for hunting) I noticed that if I put the mag in, then racked the bolt, it does not feed a round into the chamber. If I have the bolt locked back put the mag in and then drop the bolt, it feeds a round. I was not really concerned about it not feeding a round when I load with the bolt closed. I mentioned it to my daughter and her boyfriend, as a kind of, hum.. that is weird, thing. I have not used these mags before, they are new. Yes they are S&W mags.
The boyfriend, who is a good shot and does know a lot, asked if he could look at my rifle. I said yes, and that the mag was in my pocket. He racked the bolt a few times. Before I knew it, he broke open the rifle and had my BCG out and was disassembling it. Then he was scraping it with his knife. I tried really hard to not loose my cool. He then made a comment about it being dirty. I said that I had shot less than 200 rounds since the last cleaning. He then started to put it back together. I said that I wanted to put some oil on the BCG (especially since he rubbed off what was on it) and he said it was fine and put it back together (while I was looking for my gun oil). This really bugged me.. So after trying to get over it for a couple of hours, I talked to him. He said that he figured it was ok since he "knew what he was doing" and that his rifles were squeaky clean. All this followed me telling my daughter that she could borrow some ammo if they wanted to go shooting at the range. Not hundreds of rounds, but some. He said, that he could go through lots of my ammo, he has X # of mags, etc. This did rub me the wrong way since I said my daughter could borrow some ammo, not him. I don't mind her borrowing some ammo so much, I do not see the need to supply her boyfriend too. (they are both in their mid twenties).
Later when I told the daughter that I was sorry if I embarrassed her by speaking to her boyfriend, she took his side and said, "he was only trying to help". I do not think that he should have taken such liberties with someone else's rifle. I did not ask for his help at all.
Am I wrong for being upset?

[Krogen]

I grew up learning to respect other people's firearms. One doesn't mess with somebody's rifle unless asked. You certainly don't disassemble somebody's rifle without being asked. In fact, it's just bad form to even pick up somebody's rifle without asking or being invited.

Just sayin'

[Fishinfool]

Long story short - NO, you are not wrong. I don't let anybody "work" on my weapons unless I ask. He may or may not know what he is doing, but that's not the point. I probably would have just told him, rather bluntly, to stop. The ammo? Yea, some people do just rub you the wrong way..lol

Larry

[lethe]

I wouldn't be happy either.

[MichiganScott]

Originally Posted by Krogen

I grew up learning to respect other people's firearms. One doesn't mess with somebody's rifle unless asked. You certainly don't disassemble somebody's rifle without being asked. In fact, it's just bad form to even pick up somebody's rifle without asking or being invited.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is normal etiquette. I can't imagine breaking open another shooters firearm without asking, let alone using a tool that is not made for the job once it is open. FWIW, AR's will run for many hundreds of rounds with just a drop or two of lube in the gas vent holes on the bolt. I've got a loaner with over 500 rounds through it right now and will probably clean it only because the snow is too deep at the range.

It's also bad form to make negative comments on someone elses guns. I don't care if it's a single shot Rossi. You always tell the owner that it's a nice gun.

Personally I'd tell the kids to get a job and buy their own freekin' ammo. You are under no obligation to support their habit.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by AGoyette

The boyfriend, who is a good shot and does know a lot, asked if he could look at my rifle. I said yes, and that the mag was in my pocket.

So, you told daughter and boyfriend that your rifle had a problem, boyfriend asked to take a look at it, you said yes, and then get upset that he field stripped it?

Yes, I think you over reacted. If he was scraping carbon off the bolt, that is a normal cleaning procedure and does not harm the rifle.

[tbgunner88]

Dating your daughter and now messing with your guns? That boy is just askin for it.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by MichiganScott

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is normal etiquette. I can't imagine breaking open another shooters firearm without asking, let alone using a tool that is not made for the job once it is open.

To be fair, he did ask to look at it after she said she had a problem. And scraping carbon off the bolt with a knife doesn't cause any more harm than scraping carbon with a $30 specialty tool made for scraping carbon off the bolt.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I think context means a lot.

Looking from the outside in....

You brought up the subject of the rifle not operating properly to the boyfriend.

Apparently you were aware that the boyfriend knows a lot about guns.

Boyfriend then asked to see the rifle and you obliged.

Within that context, you didn't hand the rifle to the boyfriend to admire it. You handed him the rifle to diagnose the problem. Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but I think it easily interpreted as such by the boyfriend.
--------------------------------

Now if you were just telling the boyfriend that you had recently purchased a new rifle and he asked if he could see it... that would be different. It would have been your duty to offer the lad a lecture that would serve him well in the future.

[TheMaineEvent]

I don't think he overstepped his bounds. You had trouble with the rifle, admit he knows a lot about them, and gave it to him to look at. As mentioned, scrapping carbon off isn't a big deal, and he was trying to help you.
If you had a problem you should have spoke up then. As to the ammo, if you have an issue with that, simply offer X amount of rounds to your daughter and any more than that will cost money since they're not cheap. Problem solved.

[AGoyette]

He was playing with the extractor. What does the extractor have to do with stripping off the top round on a mag? Also where he was scrapping, is not where the extractor is.
I have not had any feeding issues with this gun. As I said before, the 10 round mags are new (pmags). I usually use the 30 round pmags. Also, as stated before, if the bolt is locked back and I release it, it feeds the top round just fine, on the 10 rounder. I don't consider it an issue with the gun. I figure it is a mag issue. I was not looking over his shoulder at the time, I broke some glass ornaments and I was picking up the mess.

[poorjohnny]

but stroke him just because.

[cyphertext]

Does the rifle strip the top round when you use the charging handle to work the bolt with 30 round magazines? It sounds like you are either not pulling the charging handle all the way back, or you are riding it forward, or perhaps the charging handle is bent or rubbing... since it works when the bolt is locked back and you use the bolt stop to release the bolt, something is going on with the charging handle.

[AGoyette]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

Does the rifle strip the top round when you use the charging handle to work the bolt with 30 round magazines? It sounds like you are either not pulling the charging handle all the way back, or you are riding it forward, or perhaps the charging handle is bent... since it works when the bolt is locked back and you use the bolt stop to release the bolt, something is going on with the charging handle.

Cypher,
I just did what I thought the daughter's boyfriend was going to do. I tried the other 10 round mag and one of my 30 round mags. It looks like it is a combo of two issues. One, I was only pulling the charging handle back 97% of the way before I released it and two, has to do with the mag seating. With the problem mag (the other 10 round mag is fine as is the 30 round mag), while I do slam in the mag, I noticed that when it does not feed the top round (even when pulling the charging handle all the way back and releasing), if I smack the bottom of the mag again, it goes in a tiny bit more, thus fixing the issue. Like I said, I never thought it was an issue with the gun. I always thought it was a mag issue, and I am correct. I am sure, with use, the problem child will fix itself. I am going to mark that mag though just in case.

[Arik]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

So, you told daughter and boyfriend that your rifle had a problem, boyfriend asked to take a look at it, you said yes, and then get upset that he field stripped it?

Yes, I think you over reacted. If he was scraping carbon off the bolt, that is a normal cleaning procedure and does not harm the rifle.

This^

Usually when there is a problem with something and another person says -- let me take a look at it -- it kinda implied that he's gonna do more than just stare at it from a distance.

For me firearms are just a thing and not something to get overly emotional about. If you and I are both firearms enthusiasts and I hand you my gun I don't expect you to ask me if you can open the slide or drop the mag. In my opinion play with it all you want. There is absolutely nothing special about any of them. Now if you were not familiar with guns that's a different story

[JeffDeMello]

I need to make sure my 10 round mags are seated before I release the bolt. Maybe it's the size of the mag that makes the 30 rounds easier to seat.

[Mike Grasso]

Originally Posted by AGoyette

The boyfriend, who is a good shot and does know a lot, asked if he could look at my rifle. I said yes, and that the mag was in my pocket. He racked the bolt a few times. Before I knew it, he broke open the rifle and had my BCG out and was disassembling it. Then he was scraping it with his knife. I tried really hard to not loose my cool. He then made a comment about it being dirty

Try not to take this the wrong way, It's obvious you believe the boy has a better handle on the functioning of the firearm.
He probably does.

Download your mags one round and see if it happens again.

If the bolt is fully locked to the rear and you are not inducing the malfunction, it's neither the mag nor the weapon since it's operating.

If you are operating the charging handle and are inducing the malfunction, it's user error, make sure the charging handle engages to the fully rear most position making your grip "slip" off, which is the same as bolt release, do not ride the charging handle.

[JJEH]

Well, he should have asked if he can take it apart. It's just common courtesy and works both ways.

Originally Posted by AGoyette

Today when loading my VTAC II with my 10 round mag (I am only allowed to use 10 round mags for hunting) I noticed that if I put the mag in, then racked the bolt, it does not feed a round into the chamber.

Btw, here's what SGM (Ret.) Kyle Lamb has to say about feeding issues. Perhaps it helps.

A full 30-round magazine, or one holding 28 rounds, will have the top cartridge sitting on the right side of the magazine follower. Once you have chambered the first cartridge, the top round in the magazine should be on the left—this can be seen and felt as you hold the magazine in your hand.

Getting Started: AR 101 - American Rifleman

[TheMaineEvent]

Something I've experienced is that some mags can actually hold 31 rounds, which causes problems as the mag doesn't seat well or in some cases not at all. Make sure you only have 30 rounds and not 31.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by AGoyette

Cypher,
I just did what I thought the daughter's boyfriend was going to do. I tried the other 10 round mag and one of my 30 round mags. It looks like it is a combo of two issues. One, I was only pulling the charging handle back 97% of the way before I released it and two, has to do with the mag seating. With the problem mag (the other 10 round mag is fine as is the 30 round mag), while I do slam in the mag, I noticed that when it does not feed the top round (even when pulling the charging handle all the way back and releasing), if I smack the bottom of the mag again, it goes in a tiny bit more, thus fixing the issue. Like I said, I never thought it was an issue with the gun. I always thought it was a mag issue, and I am correct. I am sure, with use, the problem child will fix itself. I am going to mark that mag though just in case.

OK, so you did find that you were not pulling the charging handle back, so you know to do that from now on. With the problem 10 rounder, once you load it up with 10, can you push on the top round and get any play? Try taking two rounds out and insert it with the bolt closed and see if you can get it to strip the top round with the charging handle.

Since this isn't for self defense, you could mark the mag like you have done and go on about life... make it a range mag. Would hate for you to have that big buck in your sights and the rifle go click instead of bang.

[AGoyette]

Once again, the issue was with one of my 10 round mags. The other is fine as are my 30 round mags. I already figured out what was causing the issue.
Mike Grasso,
I do not think that he knows more than I do. He does know a lot, but he lacks common sense. Downloading the mag does not fix the issue. I am not riding the bolt either. I have no idea why he thought that the extractor had anything to do with stripping off the top round on a mag. As stated above, it is only that one mag. and it has to do with the mag seating 98%. If I rack the bolt all the way back and release it and it does not strip off the top round, I then slap the mag again and it goes in a tiny bit more and seats. As I said before, it is just this one mag.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by AGoyette

Downloading the mag does not fix the issue... As stated above, it is only that one mag. and it has to do with the mag seating 98%. If I rack the bolt all the way back and release it and it does not strip off the top round, I then slap the mag again and it goes in a tiny bit more and seats.

So since downloading doesn't help, is there excess flashing on the seam of the mag? Can you see any excessive wear or markings on the mag where it may be hanging up? It sounds like that mag is just a hair out of spec... Does it drop free if you hit the mag release, or do you have to pull it out?

[AGoyette]

Originally Posted by cyphertext

So since downloading doesn't help, is there excess flashing on the seam of the mag? Can you see any excessive wear or markings on the mag where it may be hanging up? It sounds like that mag is just a hair out of spec... Does it drop free if you hit the mag release, or do you have to pull it out?

Cypher,
It does drop free. I think something is a hair off. I think with time, it will work itself out. The other 10 round mag is fine and the more I work this one, the better it gets. I only have them for hunting, and since deer season ended yesterday, I have a whole year to play with it.