In one of these threads, someone said S&W has been closed for the Holidays to all but emergency requests. I'm curious as well!!!

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

In addition to JaPes's list of accuracy mods most dedicated target shooters are going to change the barrel anyway and maybe have the chamber custom reamed. At least that's what my wife's grandfather did when he was building dedicated target rifles. So, 1:8R or 1:9 isn't going to matter.

However, I'm also just out for fun and almost all of my guns are more accurate than I am.

Whether or not the OP is seeking the "ultimate" accuracy or not is irrelevant. He bought a particular tool based on what was advertised and didn't receive that item. Thoughts about the value of why he wanted the 1:8 5R barrel have no bearing on the fact that he didn't get what he wanted.

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Freedom isn't free.

OK, it's been two business days that I'm pretty sure S&W was open and not one report out in the 3 of these threads (I know of) where people say they are pretty steamed. This makes me go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?

Possibly because either S&W pointed out or the OPs became aware of the fine print that reads: "manufacturer reserves the right to change specifications without notice" that's appeared in owners manuals and print ads for decades. I'm sure the legal eagles made sure it was on the website in at least one location.

Whatever is on the web site means nothing, same for the print ads. He never saw the owners manual till he got home and it would not matter since it not a legal document. The only thing that does matter is what was wrapped around the forearm when it was bought, he believed that he was getting a 5.56 chamber not a 223 since that is what it said on the forearm. If I print that the barrel has dual rifling on the forearm tag and you get home to find out that this one does not have dual rifling, that is fraud. I do not have a dog in this fight, I do not believe I could shoot 1/8 vs 1/9 on a lightweight semi that would make any difference at 25 or 500 yds with ammo they liked. If I get a firearm from the company, and I leave label on gun and box stating 1x8 I better produce 1x8, mislabeled than lgs and S&W are responsible. I would really like to hear S&W's answer!!! Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

Hi everyone, after reading this thread, I checked my sport that I just bought and found that I have the same issue.
I contacted Smith and Wesson customer support today and spoke to a rep about the issue. She said that this was the first she had heard of this problem but was very concerned. I directed her to this forum and she saw that I was not the only one with this issue. She got very concerned and immediately reported it to the customer support director and called me right back.
She told me that their director was aware of the problem with the labels. She said that the 5R barrels were no longer available and they didn't know why that ended up on the label but they're looking into the issue.
She offered me a full refund if I sent back the rifle. I told her that I didn't want a refund, I just wanted to find out if they could fix it.
They offered me 2 free PMags for my time and aggravation but they're back ordered. I asked if they could give me a M&P nylon rifle case instead. They said yes, so that's what I'm getting.
That's my resolution to the issue.

S&W offering to refund the full retail price of the gun is about as good as it gets.

Whoa. S&W that's pretty awesome

Does all this call into question the 1:8 twist listed for the 15T?

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Well, that will depend on what's on the label and what's actually on the gun, doesn't it?

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Freedom isn't free.

So we need someone to take one for the team then.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

S&w did extend their military discounts for another 6 months

No, we need someone to go to the store and look at one on the rack.

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Freedom isn't free.

After the second, who remembers the first?

I just bought mine new and on the handguard label is says "1 in 8" twist, 5R Rifling" but the actual barrel on the rifle is a 1/9.
That's why I called them and they offered me a full refund but I took a free M&P nylon rifle case instead. I think it's a fair compromise..

They offered a full refund... if you were truly unhappy, that would have been the best solution. However, you compromised and received a gift and are happy... Happy customer, problem resolved.

Let's see...

• S&W Nylon Rifle Case = $120 MSRP. That's S&W distributing them to a retailer. So S&W is the distributor... figure that bag cost S&W about $40
  
• 16" 1:8 5R Melonite Treated barrel with a .223 Wylde Chamber (closest I could find) = $210 from a retailer. I'm guessing a margin of 10%. Maybe that barrel cost the retailer about $190. Distributor/manufacturer cost $140.

From S&W's perspective, it probably was less expensive to give and ship you that bag than it would have cost them (labor, shipping) to process a return on the rifle.

I'm not saying that the Nylon Rifle case is a bad choice. I guess if you were truly unhappy with the 15-Sport 1:9 you would have returned it.

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-John

I thought it was a good compromise.. At first they only offered me the refund or 2 free PMags.. When they told me that the mags were on backorder, I asked if they could substitute the case instead since I have plenty of mags already and need a case for it. They said that would be fine. So.. That's what I agreed to. I'm a very satisfied customer and will continue to be loyal to them.

My guess is that 99% of those who buy a Sport do so because of price. S&W offering to refund full retail is quite good, but I'm thinking that the offer would rarely be accepted. That they also offered free stuff as an alternative to returning the rifle is an effort to keep the customer smiling. S&W is a class act.

I didn't imply that was a bad thing. IMO, the 15 Sport 1:8 or 1:9 is an excellent rifle. Anything free on top of that is a bonus.

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-John

Here, I put the whole string together so you could see it all in one post. We were talking about the 15T, but you bought a Sport. Different guns. The 15T is still listed on the S&W website as having a 1:8 twist rate where the Sport now has the 1:9 listed on the website. M&P15 - Smith & Wesson

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Freedom isn't free.

Either way, my sport was mislabeled on the hand guard label too and they took care of me.

I diverted a little from the thread, because what I was wondering is are there 1:8 twist 5R barrels still in existence at S&W.

Having seen things manufactured for many years, I'm betting there's a few boxes of them somewhere gathering dust in a corner. Perhaps a cosmetic fail in QC for one reason or another. Maybe just not enough to fire up an assembly line long enough to justify the time and effort.

If there are, and S&W is now watching this forum because of the recent mishaps with labeling, might I suggest that S&W offer them first to those of us here in the M&P Rifles Forum.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Well, the rep told me that they don't make the 1/8 5R barrel anymore but, the clearly do because it's available here: Product: Model M&P15T Upper Assembly
So, I don't know if the reps even know what they're talking about. I might call them back and point all that out and see what they say..

The website cannot be trusted for accurate information. As an example, they had the M&P listed in .357Sig for a long time after they were discontinued.

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Freedom isn't free.

Doesn't the moe magpul come with that barrel?

No, the MOE rifle has a barrel made from 4150 steel vs. the 4140 steel that came on the Sport and the 15T. Same twist rate and rifling, but different barrel.

Someones gotta take one for the team and buy a 15T so we know.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Again, no they don't. All it will take is someone to go to the store and look at one. No buying necessary.

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Freedom isn't free.

No no. First buy and transfer, take home and then inspect the rifle.

Have we officially gone full circle in this thread?

Well, the logic used by some here certainly seems circular.

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Freedom isn't free.

I was at the store with my friend. She's a hot 38 year old woman who's into motorcycles, cars, guns, and keeping bikini fit year round. Anyways we went to the LGS to take a look at a M&P 15 Sport. We took a look at a rifle right out of the box. The barrel was stamped 1:9 but the barrel wrap sticker had a 1:8 5R label. I pointed this out to my friend, but she just wanted the rifle.

It wasn't until later on in the day, while were relaxing in a hot tub sipping on mimosas, did she start wondering whether or not she got a good deal or not. It totally ruined my afternoon. I had to hop out of the hot tub and just get away from her.

Now we're full circle and then some.

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-John

Well I have to correct this right now.



We know what S&W said. Now Ginger and Mary Ann has been brought up. The thread is now complete.

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-John

Oh come on, someone here must need an excuse to have one follow them home.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

Some broken hearts never mend.
Some dreams will never end.
Some barrels always lie.
And this freaking horse needs to die.

He's a poet, his feet show it, they're Longfellows.

By the way, Mary Ann lives just up the road a few miles from here.

Now, to the OP, what are you hearing from S&W? Inquiring minds want to know.

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SFC, US Army, Retired

I bought the first one in 2013 and it had the 1/8r barrel. Great rifle.
I bought another one last year and it had the 1/9 barrel. Great
rifle.

At the distances of over a 100 yards I have shot them while hunting, I have not seen a speck of difference in the two. The rifles look just as good as the day I took them out of the box.

I have no qualms when I grab either one when I go to the ranch. I do not have optics on them, just an offset flashlight mounted for when I have to be out walking at night.

I have run 40-75 grain .223/5.56 rounds thru them and they give the same accuracy.

Only thing I wish S&W would do is put a lightweight barrel on them. My next rifle will be a Del-ton Sport. Only reason is because it has the lightweight pencil barrel. It does have the forward assist and dust cover, but the light barrel is what I want. Same price as a S&W Sport.

Hmmm. I could change my mind and get another S&W Sport, but I think it will go with the lighter barrel Del-ton in the end.

What will the 1-8" do that the 1-9 will not do. I do not have an AR but am thinking about the Sport. I want to shoot 55gr rounds mostly, but if it stabilizes the heavier rounds as well as the 55's then what's the big deal?

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A Snider squibbed n the Jungle

There isn't a huge difference between the two. The point of this thread is that the rifle bought by the OP was marked as having one barrel twist but the barrel was marked as having another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As has been stated previously, it depends on the level of accuracy you're going for.

If you want to put bullet after bullet through the same hole, you'll need to match the load and bullet mass to the rifling and length of your rifle. Of course if that's true, the AR is probably not the right gun either. However, if you're like most of us and 2MOA (2" at 100 yards) groups are good enough, the 1:8 will serve you just as well as the 1:9 twist. The gun will shoot better than that, but when you add the human factor, groups open up a little.

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Freedom isn't free.

Which one has the 1:9 twist?

Who cares? Although I'd personally go for the slowest twist available. Possibly 1:12. Old age you understand.

Does it really matter in this instance? Seems to me that either is a win!

I called S&W but they were closed for the holidays, so I emailed them and got this:

From: Smith & Wesson [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 9:32 AM
To: Chas Howard
Subject: Automatic reply: Sport 15 SKU 811038

We will be closed through January 1st for the holiday season. Please contact us again after the new year and we will be more than happy to help you with your request.

Sincerely,

The Smith & Wesson Team

I wrongly thought they'd contact me after they returned to work - wrong. So I sent it again:

From:Chas Howard
Subject:RE: Sport 15 SKU 811038

So I’ve realized that I actually needed to re-send this. Please see my 12/30/14 email below.

Thanks.

And got this:

From: SW Level 1 [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 1:20 PM
To: Chas Howard
Subject: RE: RE: Sport 15 SKU 811038 (LTK1117701319034X)


Reference number: LTK1117701319034X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.
Subject: RE: Sport 15 SKU 811038

Dear Customer,

The sport barrel has changed to a SAAMI 6-groove, 1:9 twist rifling and meets the same acceptance standards as the original 5R 1:8 twist rifling.

The 1:9 twist and groove pattern, which has been extensively tested by agencies and departments throughout the United States, is used on all M&P15 Sport models, as well as our law enforcement M&P15 models.

The change was effective December 2012. We are unable to change out barrels.

Smith & Wesson values all of its consumers and are happy to have assisted you to the best of our ability today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

Sincerely,

Rob

So I'm writing them back ('level 2' I suppose?) mentioning:

• I sure as **** hopes it "meets the same acceptance standards"
• I don't care what other agencies have tested or use this barrel
• S&W is "unable to change out barrels"???
• Never addressed their mistake

I'll be polite and report back.

I'm not posting this as the gospel truth, simply sharing something I read a year or so ago regarding the change in barrels.
It seems to have originated as a result of demand for the Sport in as much as it was/is such a good value. I can't remember the exact number but the article stated S&W was X amount of units behind in production to meet demand. The 5r barrel, produced by Thompson Center, was supposedly a bottleneck in production due to the required machining process so they switched to the 1:9. The article also purport that they still maintain the Melonite treatment but call it something else as a result of Glock having proprietary ownership of the word but not the process.
Again, not gospel, just sharing something I read that sounds reasonable if not factual.

That sounds perfectly reasonable. If I were making a product and a vendor couldn't keep supplying one of the pieces, I'd be looking to find a replacement.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

If they don't make the 1:8 5R barrel then how come my VTAC II supposedly has one (I will now have to go downstairs and look at the barrel). It was purchased with in the past year.

They still make the 1:8. It's just not used on the Sport any more.

Don't confuse a 1:8 regular barrel with a 1:8 5R barrel. They are different. As I understand it, the 5R has a progressive twist. This means it twists faster toward the muzzle. The over all aggregate is equivalent to a 1:8 though it's slower in some parts and faster in others.

I don't know if they still make it or not. I'm just commenting on the fact that a 5R is different from a regular 1:8 twist.

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Freedom isn't free.