Just looking for opinions.

You cannot compare the 2.

I think that it depends on what you want it for. If you want a good basic AR and are not concerned with frills, then go with the Smith. If you want something with a better resale value, go with the DD. While I have never owned an DD I seriously looked at them as well as other brands when researching which AR to get. I ended up getting the S&W VTAC II. It checked the most boxes on my want list. Daniel Defense makes a really good AR. They are among the top few best AR manufacturers.

I always wonder why resale value is ever a factor in choosing any firearm. If I look at a firearm and think "hey this has a great resale value" then it's a firearm my subconscious is telling me I'll eventually sell. Why buy it in the fist place if I'm just going to resell it?

GMCman666, what your intended purpose of use for an AR-15? Is the rifle going to be mostly used on the range? Is your rifle going to be shot at relatively close distances or longer distances? At what frequency are you going to use your rifle? How many rounds per year are you going to shoot? Do you have any physical challenges that need to be considered?

Comparing a S&W v.s. Daniel Defense without any knowledge of how the rifle is to be employed, or which trim level to compare is difficult. Without knowing a little bit more about your goals makes it difficult. We need just a little bit more information to give you decent opinions of what rifle will suit your intended purpose of use to maximize your value for the dollar.

I'm a vehicular speed addict. I have more self control now than I did in my 20's. Even today I would love to own a Suzuki Hyabusa (a.k.a. organ donation machine) just to run that motorcycle at WOT. Problem is given my age, location, skill level, and environment I would never be able to wring out every minute bit of performance that machine is capable of. I know this. I've never bought the bike because I know I'd be throwing away good $$$ for capability I'll never use. Same logic goes into buying an AR most of the time.

Now if you want a cool rifle that others will say "Dang, that's a DD!" and be envious, then go for it. Hell, I have one rifle just for that stupid reason. I knew it did nothing any better than my current 5.56 projectile launching devices, but I wanted it.

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-John

I need resalr value. I dont intend on selling my weapons, but i need to know beforehand what i could sell it for if ever needed. I look at everything in life as an investment, and if i want something but i can resale for 0$, thats fine but i dont want to find out when i sell, i want to know before.

I am interested in the differences and such.

All valid points. The intended purpose is some comp,plinking,defense. I'm the kind of person that too likes to know he can get most if not all his investment back,wishful thinking..lol. I have one DDV11 with a DDV3 due to arrive this week. I like the M&P but there are build and quality differences that I know exist.

Most of the DDs I have seen sell for at least twice what a Sport or similarly priced AR sell for. Think about pocketing the difference, investing it in mutual funds, and making enough return in 5 or 6 years to pay for the Sport. Resale value is not always what it's cracked up to be, if you have to spend two or more times as much to get it.

Buy a $1600 DD and you can probably sell for $1300. Buy a $500 Sport and you can probably sell for close to $400. There's a bottom floor $ on ARs and the Sport is right about there new. Primary Arms has had quite a few $400 off sales on DD rifles so be careful what you pay for one.

That said... by the time you buy a couple thousand rounds for $600, $700 Aimpoint or whatever, $250 trigger, $100 in mags, sling, grip, stock... the difference in resale between just the rifles will be laughably meaningless.

It's like trying to compare a Toyota, Honda, or a NIssan to a Lexus, Acura, or Infinity. The M&P15 will be a reliable firearm that will get the job done.

ARs are like cars: no one makes all the parts (in fact, they buy many of the major parts-like receiver forgings- from the same folks) and there are Rolls Royces, Porsches, Chevys and Moskvas.

DD got its start making gee-whiz parts for Spec Ops folks and expanded into complete rifles. Their rifles reflect this background. Buy one and you may be the most tactikewl dude on the range. The real question is: do you really NEED all the doo-dads and features?

As previously noted, the various M&Ps will launch bullets with little or no difference from the DD. The greatest performance variable between them will be the operator. Most of us would find greater benefit from spending the price difference on practice ammunition (and good optics if you need/want them).

That is true - especially on price.

For what 99.99% of most of us do with an AR, anything S&W makes will outlast us all. That also goes for PSA, CMMG, DPMS...

If, however, you wanna be the big shot name dropper around the range, go with Daniel Defense, Noveske, LMT, etc...that's about all you're going to get out of it...well that and you'll be the envy of your online gaming buddies...

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M&P's and K Frames Pleeze!

Same goes for cars and really everythig else in life. Sometimes ghe added benefit of paying more is less depreciation. Looks like not yhe case in ARs. Might just be better to buy cheaper ones ao that you have more! Will have to look into thes $400 off sales.

On another note. Guns dont seem to be havung too many salea right now. Guessing itll pick up on memorial day and 4th of july? Looking at hoarding ny money until then

As a lurker, I'd hate to make my first post about a complaint, but I have owned a DDM4v5 LW since about December of 2013 which was bought new straight from DD shipped to the store I work at, and I have to say, it is not all that great.

I only owned one other AR before this, a spikes tactical, which I sold to buy the DD.

The DD trigger is a standard GI trigger with a horrid pull. Although it doesn't matter and is purely aesthetic, the bolt carrier group on the spikes was machined more smooth. Also, the castle nut staking on the spikes was done neatly on every groove, whereas the DD barely had any staking. It was done improperly and very sloppy, as if they didn't even use a center punch and were drunk on the job.

The gun was also from a period where DD cranked out a large batch of out of spec lowers. The pistol grip screw hole was off center, and the factory DD A2 grip screw hole was wider to accommodate the out of spec lower, and the detent spring hole on the factory A2 grip was flared open with wider tolerances. The aftermarket TangoDown grip wouldn't fully scew on to the gun as a result.

I called them around a week after SHOT show, and they told me their customer service lady had called in sick, and that she would call me the next day. The man on the phone mentioned that he had heard complaints of Magpul grips not fitting.

The next day I got no call, so I called them back the day after I was supposed to get the call and they told me they were busy because of SHOT, which was already over by then, and that they either told me that they'd contact me for the warranty exchange in a few days or that I should call back after another few days. I can't recall.

About 9 days of runaround later, I finally got my shipping label only after I bypassed the guys on the phone and emailed a higher up, Joe Marler. He is the one who finally got the customer service lady to contact me. Mind you, Springfield armory has gotten me my warranty repaired 1911 back to my door within 8 days of me first calling them and shipping the gun that same day on their dime.

Although DD eventually made it right, I have heard from and read about many others on forums who had the same problem as me, and seeing as to how the rep on the phone knew that there were complaints, I feel like they may have purposely sent out an out of spec batch that someone screwed up on to save costs.

I honestly don't see DD as special anymore and wouldn't buy another one. I'll stick to other mil spec makers, like colt, BCM, FN, or build my own or such.

Rifle in question.

Any maker can produce a lemon... DD, Noveske, Colt, BCM, CMMG, S&W, DPMS... any of them. What matters most is how they handle the customer after the fact.

As far as comparing DD to S&W... specs and materials used will differ. Little things like full auto carrier vs. semi auto carrier, barrel steel, buffer weight.... things that many might not notice a difference in, or may depending on the ammunition they use.

And as far as resale, or being an investment.... commercially produced AR 15s that are cranked out by the thousands each year are not "investments". Especially ones that are bought to be used.

It's like buying an SUV. Are you going to keep it on the concrete or take it off road and really play with it hard ? I've had zero issues with both brands of weapons and I don't "baby" any of them.

Another thing I liked about the DD is being able to get a mid and full length gas system along with different barrel lengths.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Id have to disagree. All ARs were note expensive after sandy hook. AKs have consistently risen in price too.

Take that expensive AR you bought after Sandy Hook and see if you can sell it today for what you paid... you can't.

Same with the AK... short term market increase and will come back down over time. Shoot them all you want, they are still making them.

My son's pre-1900 1894 Winchester on the other hand... investment grade firearm that is no longer in production.

I dont think youre following. The object would be to have some on hand before any panic. Also AKs have still gone up even after panic has subsided. They still steadily rise. Same with bullets and magazines.

Obviously buying high and selling low results in a loss in really any trading or selling. Its like saying go buy the stock when its at its peak and sell it 1 years later when its come down in price. Thats why its stocks are a bad investment : / just doesnt make sense.

You aren't following... the motley fool has an article showing that AR and AK prices, while they have had some peaks and drops, as an average year over year have been flat. That is not an investment. AR prices are actually down. Colts that sold for $1400 a few years ago, now sell for $950 at Walmart... that should be a clue, if you are buying it at Walmart, it ain't an investment.

Yes and in a few years it will peak again. Id say thats an investment. I dont know what your definition of an investment is, but if something goes up or down, its worth buying low and selling high to me. You can buy ammo at walmart. That price has only inceeased with time.

i mean a dollar is a dollar but people invest in it. We used to be worth more than the canadian. Then canadian passed us, now weve passed them.

http://m.fool.com/investing/general/...a-good-investm

Are you saying investing in Sw stock is not an investment either?

Which colts are selling for 800 now btw? I was looking to pick up a carbine colt.

http://m.fool.com/investing/general/...a-good-investm

Also just found another article on AKs....talk abouy copy and paste with minimal work to get hits and people to pay for their service. It shows inr facet and brings up good point but it definitely isnt as well researched as it should be

People actually read the Motley Fool? I always thought it was just some website that had to use semi misleading titles on Yahoo's front page to get traffic.

If you read the article on the ar and ak. Youll notice that it probably took them 15 minutes to write and research. Purely marketing scheme but it did bring up good points

I have to agree. Any AR or AK is for the most part a bad investment depending on when you purchase one. When times are calm, prices reasonable and the dealers will negotiate price, that's the time to buy. When the panic hits, people freak out and then suddenly "JUST GOTTA HAVE ONE" before you can no longer buy one and the prices go through the roof isn't a good time to even look at them. I saw plain Jane Sports go for 4-5 times their "normal" price during the last panic and the price people were paying for those "dancing ponies" was a joke. Now they expect to get that same money back to make a profit is an even bigger joke. AK's are high now because that's the latest fad.

People constantly trading are loosing money. They say they got a great deal on their trade in, but in reality they are taking a hit, the dealer just added that "good deal" to the built-in MSRP from the manufacture (not to mention interest if they took out a loan, put it on their credit card and are making payments).

I NEVER buy from Big Box Stores. I NEVER pay MSRP. I NEVER buy the "first one I see". I ALWAYS buy from the same "Mom & Pop" stores I've dealt with for years. Always haggle on the price (after doing my homework) and ALWAYS pay cash.

A true weapon investment is the rare model or limited addition production.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

My idea of an investment is something that I would buy with the intent to sell at a later date at a higher price... Not something that I purchase with the intention to use, and that depreciates with use. Same with ammo... you can either buy it as an investment, or with the intention to use it, not both... very little return on used ammo.

As far as S&W stock... pretty volatile, but has shown growth long term. Buy it if you want to invest.

Palmetto State Armory had the Colt with the lightweight barrel for $799 the other day. Bud's has had the LE6920 with Magpul furniture for $850... They currently have the LE6920 with Magpul Wildfire pattern furniture for $865 with make offer...

It just so happens that it was the ad that popped up on the side of my screen... cookies are telling on me again.

so a house is not an investment?

Don't know about your house, but mine has not depreciated. The house is sitting on land, which they aren't making any more of...

We've derailed this long enough... If you think that buying an AR is an investment, knock yourself out... I'll stick to baseball cards.

Look at detroit. Anyways id think you were going more for "investing" in cars like a normal car. That never rises with value and always sinks. Guns more or less holds their value theb jumps in times of panic and then comes down.

Im just diversifying while having fun with it. Thinking about vepr 12, m92, AR, or a .45 next. Keep going with thosr cards, make sure that house of yours doesnt get a leaky roof

AR as an investment?
Mine is a money pit.

If a guy wanted to buy an AR and wait for another panic to come along to sell it, then I would buy a low priced AR like a Sport rather than a more expensive rifle. You'll get a higher percentage return on your "investment" because the premium will be paid simply for the fact that it's an AR, and not so much for being a higher end AR.

But you never know. If the next panic is over a ban including resale, then it might be a panic sale.

Aww. I was having fun reading the arguments for and against the notion of firearms as an investment. I started to have fantasies that some forebearer of mine in 1847 bought a Colt Walker Dragoon, set it aside in unfired condition, and kept it pristine as an investment so that I could reap the rewards today. That would have been nice of that long long long gone relative to tuck away his hard earned money into an inanimate object, get no satisfaction or money from it, just so that I can sell his precious at auction.

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-John

Hmm. See i was ebating that. But i heard the prices doubled. So higher priced items yielded higher return. Im also buying because i want it, not for sole investment. A sport isnt anywhere on my radar

I don't have any experience with DD, but have seen a lot quality fluxuations in the AR arena over the last 20 years that I've been paying attention. When Colt couldn't put out anything that worked, Bushmaster was the standard for reliability. Now BM is considered spotty in quality and Colt one of the top names. I remember a bit of scuttlebutt about quality and reliability when the M&P first came out, but they've steadily become reputible. I've been using Rock Rivers since 2004 and have had great experience with the two I've run - one just past 10k rounds with no malfunctions of any kind that were gun related - bad mags and bad ammo on the other hand will jam up anything. The lack of being milspec hasn't hindered the RRAs to deliver good performance when properly maintained - just like you'd maintain your top shelf AR when running hard. If the M&P will accept aftermarket barrels, triggers, BGCs, etc then it's as good a platform as any to build on. Take a look at advertised prices of used ARs, and you'll not see too much depreciation. You'll likely find someone who will pay your asking price or close to it as long as you're not being ridiculous.

I'm an instructor, and of the M&Ps that have showed up on my ranges, they have functioned reliably, including the Sports. The only major issue I've seen was operator induced when he set his QD magnifier to flip right instead of left , blocking the ejection port and causing a huge malfunction. Although I've seen a couple of brands that were pretty unreliable, the M&Ps have run pretty good.

No.

$500 rifles sold at a higher return than more pricey rifles.

The guy who had four $500 Sports for sale could make a higher return than the guy with one $2000 LaRue.

Go buy an AR and enjoy it,

Buy older Smith revolvers if you want to invest in guns.

Do you havr numbers phil? And yes, im not looking it as a sole investment. So i buy them for fun but kind of as an investment. Which really leads me to buy more than i need to, whatever catches my eye, is mine

Sure. I saw quite a few low end ARs go for $1500+ in the heat of the panic.

Now keep in mind the market is saturated with ARs at this point. Even folks that never wanted an AR were buyers when they thought that they would be banned.

The real money was made selling stripped lowers. $60 lowers were selling for $300 and more.

Buy the best you can afford and only cry once....or something like that

See. Heres the thing, i like diversity. So I have a mid length, but i want a carbine too and I also want one for longer range shooting even thoughi will probably never shoot that far.

So i dont buy cheap, but i dont buy expensive

Ugh. I dont want to walk into that grey area of buying a bunch of lowers and selling it later. Not trying to make this isnt a business, but buying stuff i want and like and then selling off what i dont need in the end. I never rent guns anymore, i just buy it and if i dont like it, i sell it. More cost efficient imo as long as you but and sell for a goid price.

just waiting for that m855 ammo to drop to 30cents so that i can stock up abd shoot it too.

Sounds like you should look at BCM. They got a ton of quality choices. Since you like DD, they make a bunch of complete uppers including DD rails in different configs on sale 599-699. Buy a $100 striped lower, toss in a $75 lower kit, $200 trigger, $100 stock kit. You'll have one heck of a nice rifle exactly to your liking for about $1200.

BCM. ....good choice

What about the piece of mind investment of having an AR ready to protect you and your family should the need occur? Or the emotional investment of a good day at the range? We can broaden the definition of investment.

Think the whole of this thread was just one big rhetorical question troll post because the op had bought two DD guns anyway. Very very few guns would be considered investment grade. Certainly nothing modern and especially nothing sold at Wally's. The only way to make any serious cash would be if new production AR's got banned but if all AR's got banned everyone loses. Guns are functional objects to enjoy some of us can afford expensive ones and others cheaper ones but a good shooter will shoot just about any gun well

Investment grade vs investment are separate things. Prices of AR has repeatedly risen and fallen in the past 2 decades. Its bound to rise again, they dknt need to get banned to rise

Yes you are correct but what would you get for an 20 year old AR now? If I had the use of a gun for 20 years and could sell it for about the same price or higher than I paid I would say it was a good investment but if you'd put that money in stocks 20 years ago you would have made a lot more but of course you wouldn't have had the gun

Maybe. Or some stocks stay stagnant or go bankrupt. Panics dont happen in 2 decade intervals. They happen more often than that.

And yes i see it as, i get enjoyment out of playing with it and then i sell it for same price 5 years from now? Win. But more than likley there will be a panic that will atleast inflate prices by 30 %

My DD M4v4 doesn't shoot any better than my Sport. And the trigger on the Sport feels better than the DD trigger.

That said, I've never thrown my Sport out of a helicopter. FWIW.

Have you thrown your DD out of a helicopter?

Due to being poor and not having a helicopter...no. That comment is in reference to the DD torture test video where they end up dropping the rifle from a helicopter and shoot it afterwards.

Google. It usually works.