http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/s...edramps2-1.jpg

Here's the feed ramps

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Jack C

I'm an IT guy/computer engineer. If I don't catch what is causing a mechanical problem at MY job I get cussed out. I didn't imply that they sent me back a bad gun on purpose, just said I was disappointed in them. And god "get a life" I'm not the one lurking S&W forums. Come on don't get petty. S&W will make it right I'm sure, just wanting to know if anyone had any obvious answers again other than "looks like mag" or "looks like ammo".

my feed ramps look like the top right pic

not sure why that'd have anything to do with a pre-assembled rifle though

Just out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be shooting the rifle using the mag for a monopod, would you? That will almost guarantee jams.

Ok, so you are frustrated, we get it. But I can assure you that Ruger has put out some bad ARs, as well as Colt, DD, Noveske, BCM, etc.

You have admitted yourself that the problem is intermittent... fired 60 rounds without a problem... How many rounds do you want S&W to fire through your rifle to induce a jam? Let them know that it is intermittent and that you want them to shoot it until they see the failure.

It doesn't do you any good to come on here just to complain. If you are not willing to try to fix anything yourself, then you need to just send it in.

Because sometimes machines get assembled wrong at the plant. It happens and was a worthwhile question to ask. This isn't an issue on yours so, on to the next potential issue.

Any possibility you could post a pic of the issue?

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Freedom isn't free.

Yeah you're absolutely right, I need to send that round in, show them what is going on. I just really can't figure it out, I'm using all the exact mags it came with (PMAG M2) and the day I got it back from them emptied 3 full pmags (90rds). All different but all good brass stuff that isn't known to be problematic and isn't in other ar's. Doesn't do good to say it is a ****** gun because the guy next to me at the range said his sport never had a problem. S&W can afford ammo I'm sure a lot more than I can so I'll just call them.

Yep, send it back in with a note detailing the stoppage as much as possible. Send them that pic of the round.... they may not like a live round being sent with the rifle.

And when they do fix it, please come back and let us know what they fixed. We have seen this a couple of times on the board, but have never found out what the fix was.

I'll apologize in advance, because I didn't want to read the entire thread. I see that you are using all Gen2 Pmags. Is this issue happening with ALL of the mags, or one in particular?

I ask as I've seen a bullet get bent as you pictured due to a Pmag having a weak spring (or at least that is what I attributed it too). Reason being is it was the only mag to cause the issue, and on some rifles it wouldn't hold the bolt open on the last shot (others it would). Problem couldn't be replicated with any other magazine, and even with this particular magazine it couldn't be replicated with regularity. It might bend the 5th shot, the 1st shot or it might function fine for the entire magazine.

If you haven't determined if it is the same magazine, then I'd suggest marking the magazine as soon as this situation arises and move on to another magazine.

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

That's pretty inconsiderate friend. The guy has been beaten to death about magazines and now you come along and pile on just because you're too lazy to read one page? Not cool.

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Freedom isn't free.

We are all just trying to help you get a frustrating problem resolved. Even the picture of the round that is bent and dented could be of help to them. You posted your problem, we're trying to help you, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Care to point out where I 'pile on' at? I merely gave my experience with a rifle that would bend a round at random, and how I narrowed it down to a magazine with a weak spring.

As for being lazy, perhaps, but I was at work, saw an issue that looked familiar and gave my 2 cents from actual experience with a similar issue.

I hope your next bowl of Wheaties has milk in it....

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Rod
M&P 22A, 40c, 15A, 15-22

Yeah I didn't send them a pic of the round but maybe i can email it to them. I sent the rifle back yesterday with a note that basically explained that the round was bent where it "necks down".

I sent them one of my pmags and told them to shoot it enough and it will jam and to please get it running or replace it. They are always prompt, like I said if I didn't think S&W's customer service was worth a **** I wouldn't have bought 3 other firearms from them. I felt bad about sending it in a tad dirty but I wanted to see if they saw something off the bat that I was doing wrong (and I think I might have put 60rds through it non-corrosive).

Anyway thanks for anyone that helped me, sorry for acting a tad rude but if you're like me a few stoppages and a hurting shoulder from yanking the bcg out ruins a trip to the range for me. I am spoiled from my glocks and cz75's (and shield for that matter) never having ANY problems unless a mag is going bad. When my p229 wouldn't digest cheap WWB ammo I flipped my **** and sold it.

I guess we will know in 7-10 days what they did to correct the problem. It sucks you have to send it back a second time, and I would also be frustrated with them. I'm sure they will find the problem and correct it. Good luck,

Just followed this all the way to the end. Pity you didn't try the rifle with magazines other than the ones you're having problems with. Just cause they're P Mags doesn't mean that a fault couldn't have developed in a mold or a couple of bad mags got out.

It's a little late, but sending S&W an email of the damaged rounds might help out their diagnosing the problem.

It's possible for just about any product to have a problem. The difference between companies is how they handle the problems.

BTW, if you think a Colt would have been a better investment, you obviously never tried to deal with a warranty problem through them. Bankruptcy seems to have cured them of their belief that their products are worth a premium price. Maybe it'll cause them to change their warranty too.

well i was at work today, they tried to send it back to me, i will have to wait on fedex to come tomorrow. they only had it a few days. and if it wasn't happening out of 3 pmags (1 that came with the rifle and 2 that were bought after) I would think that might be a possibility. But 3 bad pmags would be some really bad luck.

i'll post what they found tomorrow when i get the rifle back into my hands. i sent them one of my p-mags and if I told them if they shot it enough it definitely would jam. I'm curious as to what they found.

Hopefully they did find a problem. Looking forward to what they had to say.

I had a similar problem with my sport found out it was an extra magazine given in with the deal, it was what they call a neutered mag
that is it looks like a 30 round but only holds 10 went back to the S&W mag and problem ended

ok update: just got my rifle back from smitty and wes:

there's a spreadsheet with a ton of parts and stuff but it says PERFORMED SERVICE: Evaluate Repair and below: Replace Bolt. So I guess they replaced the bolt? That could have very well been what it was (bolt not moving freely as it should have). I didn't get a fact sheet about how many rounds fired or anything like last time.

Range report coming soon (might get her out there tomorrow), here's hoping for the best.

Replacing the bolt sounds like a reasonable repair action. The symptom sounded like it was either magazine induced or short stroking. With it happening with multiple magazines, I think it is safe to conclude it was not the magazine. Hopefully that takes care of it.

The spreadsheet is most likely the BCG group parts. There should be 14 parts including the bolt and bolt carrier. Good luck.

hmm that is an interesting problem it sounds to me that it is your ammunition i would try a variation of outher ammunition and see how it performs if it still does it with outher ammo id contact snw and see what they say

but i would also field strip it maybe it had been shot alot previously before you bought it ive bought a many of guns from pawn shops and gun shops and when i get them home they r so dirty i had an sks once that i bought for a high amount that looked new but it wouldnt even cycle rounds because the gas tube was clogged up could be dirt or grime or something that is keeping it from strikin the pin and igniting the primer field strip it first then if that doesnt work try some diffrent ammo n if that doesnt work you have something wrong with your rifle

range report: ran 30 round of Perfecta .223 brass (Wally world Italian stuff, actually really good stuff that is cheap, heard it is Fiocchi/Tula rebranded) and 60 rounds of Independence 5.56. Both 55gr. 3-30rd mags. All went well. I didn't clean it from S&W but I did spray some Remoil inside of it (which I've found to be a good lube/cleaner combo here lately). Looks like they fixed my rifle, and I am a happy camper now. These rifles really are good when they work lol. The trigger and the feel of them are solid for what I paid. I've seen $1000+ AR's that had worse triggers on them. I was hitting laundry detergent bottles at 100yd's no problem, bouncing them around. Very accurate rifle.

BTW I've been considering putting some optics on it, but I'm cheap, what is the best Red dot/3x red dot I can get for around $150 or so? I've heard SIG TAC ones are pretty good. I saw a Bushnell RDS at wally world for 90 bucks I almost grabbed up because I saw them online for $150. I'm really wanting an EOtech-type clone.

Anyway thanks for the support and everything, hopefully it is running right from now on.

This statement is fraught with problems. Still, I'll play...

This is the cheapest optic I'd recommend to anyone:
Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot with Push Buttons MD-ADS | Primary Arms

It's proven to be very tough and has a long battery life. To get similar performance from any other optic you must go to the Aimpoint T-1 or H-1.

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Freedom isn't free.

Check out the Lucid HD7. Very high quality for the price. (under $200)

Take a look at the Vortex Strikefire II.

There are different levels of cheap... for cheapest but decent, I like the Bushnell TRS-25. The Primary Arms model that Rastoff mentioned is getting good reviews, but it is probably at the top of the price range I would consider cheap. Once you close to $200, I would probably hold out for an Aimpoint Pro.

I meant I want a 1x red dot or a 3x "acog clone" scope, not both. The sigtac 3x prismatic scope has good reviews and is pretty much an acog clone. I've shot a real acog and it make reaching out to 100yds a breeze but I could swith to 50yds without any real effort. But those are worth twice as much as my rifle itself, as much as I like my rifle now that it seems that it is working.

but if I want a 1x I'd rather it just be a "window" one like a EOtech not one I have to actually "look through" like a scope. I'll look at your suggestions. BTW should I put a new gas block for the front post of use a riser? I think I'll leave the front post be so I can have the irons as back up (if that works, which those are magpul backup sights).

What is the best cartridge for white tail deer? 75gr hornady hornady tap? I'm considering getting a 5-rd mag and trying to take a whitetail with this, I think I could do it, with a 3x scope. I heard someone say they have some 77gr soft point reloads, and I saw some 55gr soft points at academy for 8 bucks a box, but I didn't get them because I thought they were probably varmint only and wouldn't be great for self defense even though the price was right. I can't hunt in my state with fmj it has to be expanding.

Thanks guys I'll check out the optics. That Prismatic sig tac 3x I have heard good things about as far as word-of-mouth and it has great reviews.

Glad to see Smith fixed your rifle. I found this thread interesting, because I chose the Ruger AR-556 over the Sport. If you read the Ruger Forum, you'd think the AR-556 was a piece of junk. OTOH, I have run across very few complaints about the Sport.

The bottom line here I think is that both companies make and sell a lot of guns, and there are always a few clunkers here and there that make it out of the factory. Both Smith and Ruger have good customer service, though, and they make things right for their customers.

CJ, since no one has answered you yet, I will... with a 1x red dot sight, you don't "look through it like a scope". It is mounted further forward and you shoot with both eyes open, focusing on the target down range. The dot will appear to float and you have unlimited field of view using this method. Since you have mentioned hunting, I would go with a scope with magnification over the red dot.

With magnification of 4x or greater, the FSB will ghost in the sight picture and you will not see it. At 3x, some see it, some don't... it depends on the optic, where it sits on the rail, etc...

As far as ammo for deer, your rifle may not be able to stabilize a long projectile, such as the 75g Hornady TAP you mentioned. With a 1:9 twist, that round may be tumbling at 100 yards. You will need to shoot it at the distances you plan to take shots at to see what it is doing.

I would look at Barnes TSX projectiles... These are not made to fragment and keep most of their weight. They are copper, so the projectile is longer than a round with lead, of the same weight. Again, with your 1:9 twist, you would need to try these, and I would start with the 55 grain to see how they work with your rifle.

Try this, get a BCM extractor upgrade kit, install it, replace the firing pin retaining pin, new recoil spring and H buffer, and then try to shoot it. I had a buddy that had these same issues with his sport and after doing these upgrades worked flawlessly and still does.

Shootingfun, why go through all of that when the rifle is bad from the factory? If you want to swap parts around and "upgrade" that is fine, but you should start from a known working rifle... that way, if it quits working, you know where the problem lies. If I am going to swap parts out like that, I'll build my own instead of purchasing a complete rifle. A brand new rifle should work out of the box.

I personally didn't do this myself to my sport my buddy did, I told him to send it back in like I did with mine when I had a barrel issue. I was just stating that his was doing the same thing and after these small upgrades he had already laying around it worked, he still doesn't have any issues with it anymore.