Current EOTECH Zero issue

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SoCoRuss

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Does anyone have some specifics on the current fight going on between the US Army, the FBI and EOTECH. What I read keeps talking about them not maintaining Zero with big temp changes and zero not coming back when warmed up, So what does that mean for a non JSOC shooter? Is it just big swings like 100 down to freezing? If I zero my AR in a Colorado Sept at 75-80 degrees and need to use it in self defense in Nov when temp is now 45 degrees what does all this mean to me? At what point is it a concern for a normal person? I see they are allowing returns for purchase price and am wondering just what to do. I have a EOTECH 517 on 1 AR and a Leupold VRX Patrol 1-4, that I absolutely love:) on my other AR, But the EOTECH is the go to CQB/HD rifle and I'm trying to figure if the problem relates to me or just JSOC and military shooters. I picked the 517 because I just love the reticle and dot size. I'm one of the folks that does see some flare with Aimpoint dots and don't really like the big MOA dots.
 
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I have an EOTech XPS2 that is about 5 years old. I use it on my M&P15 and have never had to re-zero since the first time I took it out. I swap it with a Nikon scope and when I re-install it the zero is still perfect. Mine is a perfect co-witness with my iron sights, the red dot sits atop the front post sight. I am a bit bummed by the bad news.

Last week I turned it on, put the upper in the freezer at -14 and left it there for 2 hours. When I took it out the dot was still bright and round and sitting atop the front post. Next I left the upper in the freezer over night, and the results were the same. Perfect dot on top of the front sight post.

I did send an E-mail to EOTech asking about what models are affected, but haven't heard back. I think it's a problem with all models. I am going to keep mine for the time being but will pay more attention to how it's working.
 
I contacted Eotech and they authorized return of two 512's, a XPS-3, EXPS-2 and XPS-2. The mfg dates on the 512's were 2007. The major issue with mine was battery life, it was never anything close to the advertised battery life. I had attributed some zeroing issues to not being consistent in the ammo brand/weight I was using, however it could well have been the issue of the sights having shifting zero with temperature changes. I had a 516 that I basically gave away a couple of months back that would drain the batteries in 3 to 6 months with no use.

Here is link to a soldiersystems.net article:
L3 Communications EOTech Issuing Refunds For Holographic Weapon Sights - Soldier Systems Daily

I think the primary issue was that Eotech knew about the problems and lied to the government about having resolved the issues or even admitting that they were aware of the issues.
 
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I don't think I was getting even 80 hours on a battery or set of batteries depending on the model of the Eotech. I would not run them on max but if used outside I would normally have to run the brightness setting up 4 to 6 clicks from the normal "on" position to be visable in the daytime.
 
I had to return my first EOTech 512 a few months after getting it due to moisture getting in the window around the edges and the second 512 worked great until the 2 years were up and I started to have issues with the battery connections (which I was annoyed with, but dealt with) and then one night after coyote hunting about a year ago I noticed the moisture around the window again and was aggravated since my warranty was up.. I had started to question wither I wanted to buy an Aimpoint about 6 months ago or just save the money and keep the 512.. Well needless to say, the second I heard about the lawsuit settlement, I saw it as a sign from God and jumped on it. Honestly, I'm much more happy with the PRO than the 512. With the whole reticle thing, I actually think the Aimpoint is better as well since it's not as cluttered and my eyes can quickly catch it as oppose to making my brain figure out the whole circle dot.. I'm sure the EOTech is nice for those without an astigmatism...
 
Both of mine were delivered to Eotech for refunds just this week. Go to their website - they actually tell you the problems (likely forced by the government). I very much like the Eotech reticle over all others but if you can't trust them, it doesn't make sense to not get your full purchase price back quite frankly.
 
webfarmer said:
Both of mine were delivered to Eotech for refunds just this week. Go to their website - they actually tell you the problems (likely forced by the government). I very much like the Eotech reticle over all others but if you can't trust them, it doesn't make sense to not get your full purchase price back quite frankly.
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My tracking info shows my package is still being held at the Post Office in Ann Arbor, I should have shipped mine a day or two sooner.:(
 
Tbat said:
My tracking info shows my package is still being held at the Post Office in Ann Arbor, I should have shipped mine a day or two sooner.:(
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Probably says the business was closed right? Ann Arbor is a liberal stronghold and that only adds to the worry. I do not trust USPS one bit ("lost items" - really?) but when they're 1/4 mile away in the middle of nowhere well..... My stress levels go way up when either shipping or receiving from those people.

Anybody that ships anything USPS MUST buy the insurance to cover the cost of the contents. Trust me on that. Good luck!
 
webfarmer said:
Probably says the business was closed right? Ann Arbor is a liberal stronghold and that only adds to the worry. I do not trust USPS one bit ("lost items" - really?) but when they're 1/4 mile away in the middle of nowhere well..... My stress levels go way up when either shipping or receiving from those people.

Anybody that ships anything USPS MUST buy the insurance to cover the cost of the contents. Trust me on that. Good luck!
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Exactly, I shipped them all in one box, registered, priority mail, and insured just in case. I am also concerned that the Post Office will ship them back to me if not picked up within 15 days then I will be out the postage again. :eek:
 
Tbat said:
Exactly, I shipped them all in one box, registered, priority mail, and insured just in case. I am also concerned that the Post Office will ship them back to me if not picked up within 15 days then I will be out the postage again. :eek:
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While I do not trust USPS, I bet they will deliver the first day Eotech is back open. Maybe email Eotech CS and ask what days they are closed? The day you get an answer is the day they should hit their dock. I say should......
 
I emailed EOTECH asking them about what if temp difference was less than the 5MOA for a 70 degree change, would be be less like 2 MOA for a 35 degree change. And if the info floating around the internet that the the zero also doesn't come back when warmer back up was true. All I got was a canned answer that all they had was in the FAQ's. Which don't reference whether the zero will return if sight is warmed back up to zero temp or what shift occurs at lower temp changes.
 
I also sent an E-mail to EOTech, as well as Midway USA. All EOTechs are still being sold at Midway, as well as Bass Pro. EOTech never responded, but Midway did with an E-mail that didn't make much sense;

"Thank you for your email regarding the EOtech XPS2-0 Holographic sight that you had ordered. I do apologize but we still carry the older version of this sight that you had ordered. If they make any fixes or updates, it is normally given a new number.

If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-243-3220. Our hours of operation are Monday through Friday 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. CST. You may also email us at [email protected].

Thanks for Your Business!"

I have since done a bit more testing since my post #2 and my XPS2 is still working great. I left my Upper in the freezer for a day and a half, turned on the sight and the red dot was still bright with a normal shape and sitting on top of my front post sight like it should.

I have decided to keep mine because it is the best I have ever used and for my situation it works just fine. It is a little over 5 years old and has never needed to be re-zeroed since the first time out. It will put rounds in a 2 inch circle at 100 yards, many in the same hole.
 
Well on Januarly 15th, I got an email from Eotech which read as follows:

"Dear ****,

Your product has been received and reviewed by EOTech and your refund is being processed. You will be updated by e-mail in the near future regarding check processing.

Thank You,

EOTech"

It seems that a lot of people got the same email so perhaps that means they are moving on the issue.
 
Even if you cannot duplicate a zero shift with temperature change, there is still the separate issue of EOTech not sealing properly and failing due to moisture damage, which according to the lawsuit was the number one reason for returns.

Although the sights were always sensitive to humidity, in 2008 EOTech inspected a large shipment of returns from DoD and noticed damage caused by moisture in nearly every sight. In the years that followed, moisture-related complaints (typically dimming or disappearing reticles) became the number one reason for EOTech’s customer returns, and EOTech’s own testing repeatedly confirmed that the sights were not properly sealed and quickly degraded when exposed to moisture.
 
I am aware of that as well, but each time I remove it from the freezer and bring it in the house the condensation on the gun and sight is really wet. I just wipe off the glass and it's good to go. Being that the humidity seldom gets above 20% here in Arizona I don't think it' an issue. I imagine that if it does fail within the next year I could still get a refund.

I just find it strange that EOTech hasn't issued a total recall and they are still selling their complete line at all retail and online outlets, and at the same prices. Plus, the guys who use them where I shoot have never had a problem with theirs either.
 
"Beginning around 32 degrees Fahrenheit, the sights' aiming dot became significantly distorted, affecting the accuracy of the sight"

I didn't realize it was affected at just 32 degrees. That's what I might expect from a $50 China made optic.
 
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Explains why I went through 2 EoTechs then... Many nights below 32* and many humid summer nights... Never had a problem with the drift though, always stayed true accuracy wise.
 
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Lee, did you see dot distortion when you put it in the freezer?
 
SoCoRuss said:
Lee, did you see dot distortion when you put it in the freezer?
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No, none at all. I have tested it twice, the second time it was in the freezer a day and a half. The temp was around -12 f. I turned it on as soon as I removed it and the dot was the correct shape and brightness. It also co-witnessed with my iron sights perfectly. The lens did fog over on the outside of the glass, but once wiped off it was clear as well with no moisture showing on the inside.

I bought mine in 2011. I plan on keeping it at least for the time being. In a few months I will get in touch with EOTech and see if they have a new and improved model that I could trade mine in for.

I am not going off to war with it, and if the temps here in Arizona get as low as my freezer then we are in an ice age and going to die anyway. I have had it out in the Arizona sun when the temps have been way over 100 degrees and have never noticed any problem with it whatsoever. Midway, Bass Pro, Cabela's and every other online source I have checked are still selling them at the same price they have always been.
 
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