Just picked up my S&W M&P 15, 5.56/223
I also purchased a Geissele 2 stage trigger upgrade from PSA on an Easter sale. I haven’t shot the firearm yet. Would it be advisable to break in the firearm with the original trigger first, or just go ahead and change it out? I broke in my Kel Tec Sub2K with 200 rounds first, before I did the trigger upgrade. Just wondering.

TT

It won't matter in regard to 'breaking-in' the rifle.

About the only reason to leave the stock trigger in until test firing is if there are any problems and it needs to go back to S&W. You'd need to swap the trigger back out before sending it in. And they'd probably blame whatever the issue was on the trigger.

Shoot first ... ask questions later

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

Then... Let God sort them out.

Cheers!

P.S. If you swap out 1st you will then have an unused mil-spec trigger (and not a particulary shabby one, either)...

Giessele makes great triggers for AR. I built an AR completely in 2019 and had originally installed a single stage Spike's Tactical milspec fire control group. I shot the rifle with the standard trigger for test-firing, sighting in and gas block tuning purposes. Then, a couple of years down the road, I bought a G2S Giessele and installed it. It's the best trigger I have on an AR. I guess I would say shoot the rifle some and see how satisfied you are with the accuracy of the rifle and the pull of the standard trigger.

Attached is a photo of the results on the range at 100 yards with the G2S trigger installed. The rifle was very good before installing the trigger upgrade; the new trigger just tightened up the groups a bit.

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Thanks everyone. I guess I’m treating this post more like a pole. I’m leaning towards running a few hundred rounds through it first. 1, to make sure it’s functional out of the box and 2nd, I think I’d appreciate the upgrade even more!

But please, keep the comments coming!

Thanks y’all

TT

You will never know the value of the upgrade unless you shoot the factory trigger. Might or might not be worth it…

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S&W factory revolver armorer

I'd run a mag or two with the OEM trigger then try the upgrade trigger.
Whether you shoot factory or your own loadings, use the appropriate bullets for the Smith's twist rate.

Always nice to put a high power scope on and see how the rifle shoots.
We keep a Weaver T36 around for those fun chores.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

Might as well change it now. Oddly, the best factory trigger I've ever had on several ARs and my 15-22 was in fact, the one on my 15-22. Smooth, consistent, a low 4lbs. I changed it to a now older HiperFire/Hipertouch 24C model. Pull is 1lb. more or less.

I'd run 5-10 magazine loads through it to make sure the rest of the rifle runs well, then change it out. Don't know which 2-stage you got from Geissele, but I believe you'll like it.....a lot. I have a High-Speed National Match DMR 2-stage trigger of his in my rifle, it's awesome.

I would say the choice is yours but you already have the trigger so why waste the ammo.

Maybe 10 rounds if it would make you feel better, but you can get the same trigger feel result by dry firing anyway so...

I sorta agree with ya, but dry firing and having recoil while firing, to me, doesn’t feel the same. I have too much going through my brain when live firing, just makes it difficult to compare the trigger. I also like the fact of seeing if the factory setup has any issues first. So I’ve decided to shoot first and upgrade afterwards!

Thanks everyone! But I still don’t mind the comments.

TT

It will certainly make the difference between triggers stand out more when you do change them. Just going from a single stage to a two-stage makes a big difference in feel.

OK story time!

I bought my first ever used AR at a gun show during the '94 gun ban era, it had an old SGW lower (pre Olympic Arms) and came with a JP Enterprises single stage trigger already installed.

It was a pretty good trigger, but when I added an Olympic Arms (.223 chambered) Fluted Stainless Ultra Match (SUM) barrel, and my reloads consisting of a 52 grain Hornady BTHP Match bullet, in front of some weight of IMR powder, I could put 5 shots into a standard postage stamp sized group at 100 yards benchrested! (approx. 1/2" MOA)

That is when I fell in love with the AR-15 platform!

I let a friend talk me into trading that rifle in on an Armalite AR-10, which turned out to be too heavy to pack around in the woods all day, so I bought a Sig Sauer M-400 and added a Jewell two stage trigger.

That was one seriously sweet trigger...once you figured out how to set it up, but it would not work with my CMMG dedicated .22 upper, so I sold that and got a Geissele SSA-E two stage.

Sold all that and currently own a Ruger AR-556 with that Rise Aamament single stage trigger pictured in my previous post.

My point is: I wouldn't waste any more than 10 rounds discovering how lousy a stock mil-spec. trigger is before installing a better trigger that you already have sitting there...YMMV.

I have a box full of Mil Spec trigger groups. One of the first 'upgrades' I do on any of my AR's is install a quality aftermarket trigger. There's plenty out there to choose from. Single Stage or Double Stage, flat or curved is up to you. 3#-4# trigger is perfect. Expect to spend at least $250+ for a decent trigger.

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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

Shoot it first to see if it works, you may need to send it back.

I doubt if the majority of shooters can do any better than the factory trigger. Those that can do better will see a benefit.

If it shoots fine with the factory trigger why change it? You’re only lightening your wallet and fattening the wallet of the aftermarket trigger maker. If you’re capable of shooting better than what’s built in by the factory then go for it.

But just about everyone will shoot better with a better trigger. It doesn’t make the gun any more accurate, it just makes it easier to shoot accurately.

Give a new shooter a heavy gritty trigger with lots of travel and I guarantee they will improve with just swapping out for a nice trigger.

I would fire a couple mags just to check function incase there is a mechanical problem but then install your upgraded trigger. Why waste your money and ammo shooting hundreds of rounds. As soon as you upgrade the trigger your groups will change for the better. If they don’t then there is a gun problem somewhere.

There's no need to break in that rifle, but I'd function check it by running a few magazines through it and then swap out the trigger.

You are correct. No comparison. Same as sitting in a car with no key going vroom, vroom, as compared to putting it through its paces.

I would never get rid of a sub-MOA shooter...��‍♂️

The 3.5 lb single stage PSA drop in cassette triggers are excellent and sell for $89-$99 dollars on the PSA website when featured as "daily deals".

I'm not price conscious in the least; the PSA drop in triggers are terrific at only a hundred bucks or so.

Oh believe me when I tell you I still regret that brilliant move.

I've probably bought, sold, and traded over 100 firearms at the Puyallup gun show here when that was allowed.

Two others I regret getting rid of are a Kimber Custom Shop Eclipse and a S&W K38 Target still in the blue box with cleaning kit and all the papers.

Oh well hindsight is 20/20 and I can't change the past so I may as well enjoy what I have now.

Kind of miss this Mini-30 too, I put a lot of TLC into this one.

Or maybe sitting in a car with no key and realizing you have a new supercharger sitting on a shelf in the garage.

Yea my Rise Armament trigger was $100 from Midway and is a pretty nice upgrade.

Sure, they, and others, are way better than factory Mil Spec triggers for sure. But they don't even come close to Geissele, Wilson, Elftmann, Timney, etc.

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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

I'm no expert, but for a time I did have a Geissele SSA-E and my little Rise Armament cassette does pretty good for $100 IMHO.

My Jewell was my favorite, but I don't think you can even get them anymore, and it wouldn't work with my CMMG dedicated upper even after I removed the firing pin spring, that's why I got the Geissele.

My rise armament came with 2 screw type retaining pins that kept coming loose even after blue loc-tite so I got a master link type pin lock and so far so good.

With the AR-15 ban about to happen here, I purchased all the upgrades and spare parts I could think of but I just know that two days after that stupid ban takes effect something will need fixing.

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I run a Rise RA-140 SST 3.5# Flat Trigger in my 15-22. It's a decent trigger that I got on sale for $100 from PA a while ago and works well.

I have a Geissele SD-3G in my Daniel Defense M4 Carbine, a Wilson Combat TTU-3G in my Daniel Defense V7, and a Timney 3# SS trigger group in my Remington R-15 VTR Varmint rifle.

You can't go wrong with any of those 3 triggers (Manufacturers/Models) and they all will outperform any 'budget' AR trigger group. Period.

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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

You sound like you know what you're talking about through experience, maybe I'm just not good enough to really tell that much difference, but I'm happy enough with my little $100 upgrade anyway.

The Rise trigger groups have those silly little set screws under each hammer spring leg that need to be tightened. I don't think they're even mentioned in the installation instructions. Those (included) trigger pins/screws shouldn't back out/loosen. Especially if using blue Loc-Tite on them.

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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

Oh yea, I found and tightened them, (thanks for the info) didn't make any difference and those hammer springs were a pain to try to get out of the way.

The link set-up seems to put my mind at ease.

ETA: I see where you were able to squeeze your Allen wrench past the hammer spring legs, I wound up flipping those dang things over the disconnector tower.

LOL. I feel your pain!

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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

Well, I am not sure how you'd use it like a pole, but if you're using it as a poll you could let the results tell you what to do...

Either way you can go ahead and install the trigger.

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Pisgah

OP here, wow that’s a lot of responses!, thanks!

So I did it! I went to the range yesterday I put about 150 rounds through the rifle with the stock trigger. And boy am I glad I did. It’s my first AR. I have 4 other rifles, but only did a full trigger upgrade on one of them.(Kel Tec Sub2K). My results were; the gun functionality was perfect, however, that trigger! I’m not a trigger snob, nor am I any type of professional shooter, just have a good amount of experience with firearms from a very young age, now getting back in to it, heavily in my late 50’s. Having said that, the OEM trigger on the M&P 15 sport 2, felt a little heavier than I’d like, being trained on revolvers this is something I can deal with, but that reset and the grittiness of the trigger made me want to stop shooting and run home to do the trigger upgrade! But I didn’t, I kept shooting, sighting in the irons and then the prism scope. I then went home and did the trigger upgrade. I only was able to dry fire it, but I can already feel the lightness of the break and definitely, definitely the smoother reset.
We had to head out to my daughters for the weekend, I can’t wait to get back home and try this baby out! I’ll keep y’all posted! Hey, maybe I will become a trigger snob! Lol!

Thanks again for all that input,

TT

FYI OP....There's nothing wrong with being a 'Trigger Snob!'.

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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

Sounds like you're all set up. A high quality, consistent trigger with a smooth pull, reset, and crisp break, along with a good prism scope, is about as good as it gets for an array of applications.

You may have just enlightened me sir, thank you.

Thanks, I did kinda cheaped out on the Prism scope, (for now). My test budget was $110, so I purchased a Votatu P3X. I have a stigmatism, so when I turn up the Red Dot brightness on my other rifle, it gets oblong and fuzzy, so I wanted to try a Prism scope to see if I like it, before I spent a lot, (and I do like it). So I will be replacing it with a better, higher powered one in the future. (Suggestions welcome).

Having said that, I had a little difficulty at 50 yards with a 3X lense, but I was using a small 12x12 sight-in target. My other issue is I don’t think I’m much of a co-witness shooter, the thought of it bothers me. I’ve been shooting irons for 44 years. So I really want a flip to the side mount so I can switch between my irons and with a prism scope, one that’s on a stout, flip to the side mount. They are few and far apart from what I can find, especially for a Votatu prism scope. Mine is 33mm with a proprietary mounting plate/riser that attaches to a picatinny rail. (more suggestions on a flip to side mount appreciated) The other Flip to the side mount that I have, is on my Kel Tec 9mm PCC. It’s designed specifically to mount to it, it’s made and designed by those MCarbo Brothers! What an awesome flip mount, wish they would make one for an AR. It’s the exact kind of mount I would like.

TT

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a Trigger Snob, but given the incessant fussing and fuming about quality and poor service from today's S&W folks, I'm wondering if replacing the trigger assembly voids or otherwise impacts the warranty?

I've never even seen a S&W rifle of any sort, much less know anything about them (and haven't really read any of the previous comments here); but caution would seem to be the order of the day until that question gets answered.

Measure twice, cut once!!

Ralph Tremaine

OK, having used and taught the AR platform where issued, as issued, for longer than I want to admit..............

Any new mechanical device will have mating parts that need to wear in to function properly. Triggers are no exceptions. 200-400 cycles (possibly a few more in some cases, can be dry or live fire) will make a substantial difference in the the performance and feel. We saw this in transition training with service pistols too. Even if you're gonna send your new purchase to a custom smith for "adjustment", it pays to work the moving parts yourself rather than pay the smith to do it. You just might find out you don't have to.

The spec for an AR trigger is 5-8.5 lbs. Weight is much less important than the trigger being smooth to press. If there's any possibility that you might use the rifle for serious purposes, keep the trigger in that range. If it's a range toy or game gun, the rule book is your guide, just be damn sure where you're pointing that thing all the time.

So many want to change everything starting with the trigger group, while you are at it might as well change the barrel, the bolt carrier group, the sights, the upper and lower receiver, the forearm guards, the butt stock , the flash hider, then you would really have something!!

Randy

PS. Being a smarty pants here, sarcasm intended.