Model 52 - Same Old Problem

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sraney

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I have a beautiful 52-2 that I really love. I also hate my 52-2. Why? Because most of the time my beautiful mint 52-2 is a single (or two, or maybe three) -shot weapon, which makes one-handed shooting kind of tiresome. I'm trying to avoid getting into reloading, and the only factory ammo I can get anymore is either Fiocchi or S&B. I believe both of these rounds are somewhat less than 700 fps. I have read in other posts that the gun "wants" about 770 fps to cycle consistently.

I finally broke down (after several years) and took it to a local experienced gunsmith, along with my Fiocchi wad cutters. With two hands braced stoutly in his test firing rig, he could make it go through five rounds quickly. However, unbraced with one hand, he couldn't do much better than I. The cases are extracted from the chamber, but they never leave the action, thus blocking the succeeding round from coming up fully into position (and slightly deforming the next casing when it's shoved forward from a too low position).

Any thoughts? Does anybody know of any other factory ammo that's actually available? Can ANYBODY really make this thing cycle consistently through five rounds (with one hand)? Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can offer.

Steve
 
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What cal. is it?
Not familar with the model 52, but I would be suspect of the recoil spring being too heavy.
 
I'd buy a spare recoil spring & cut about 10% of the spring length off, try that & then keep trimming a coil at a time until it works.
 
Thanks for the quick comments. Jim, interesting thought. The slide feels very light when cycled by hand, but I assume that it probably has the standard 8-pound spring. Perhaps the 7-pound would work better with the ammo I can get. Thanks for the input, which hadn't occurred to me. I believe I'll give it a try....

Steve
 
I had several 52s' and they are a fincky bunch. I never used factory ammo always reloaded and found that they were more reliable when loaded a little hotter. Even using the lighter recoil springs which did help some I ended up loading about 10% over my revovler round. One other thing that comes to mind is you say it works fine with a two hand hold? You might look into the frame weight that goes on the dust cover. Originals are pretty pricey but there is a aftermarket available for around $60, it might dampen the recoil enough to cycle properly.
 
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Keep it wet

Howdy,
I'll pass on what I was told.
I had one that had a problem like yours. I kept it clean and oiled lightly.
I had an old fellow who claimed to be an Air Force bullseye team armourer see me struggle with the 52 and he offered to look at it.
He told me that there was nothing wrong with the gun but to keep it wet with oil. He said if it is not splattering your shooting glasses with oil it is too dry.
I took his advice and it may not have been 100% but it was a lot better.
I hope it works a well for you as it did me.
Good luck
Mike
 
Jims on the right track. Wolff springs are the way to go and I have used their service many times. Order direct from Wolff and your get your springs in about 3 days from placing your order. Don't ruin a good spring by cutting coils if you can buy a new reduced power spring, you may need the old spring some day.

Now as for loads. In my 52-2 I hand load and my prefered load is 2.6 grains of Bullseye with a 148 grain Remington HBWC in Remington brass and Remington SP primer. My gun will function with loads all the way down to 2.3 grains of Bullseye and that's with the factory standard recoil spring, I didn't need the reduced recoil spring in my gun. I never chronagraghed these loads but I'm willing to bet that they are at or below the velocity you stated for Fioccchi. Factory loads including the Fiocchhi and SB work fine out of my gun. I can tell you however that my 52-2 wants to be a clean freak. I use it for NRA Bullseye gallary matches and if I put more that 50-60 rounds through it without cleaning the chamber I have the same problem as you do with yours. The old trick of Bullseye shooters putting a drop of oil on the top round in the magazine does work by keeping the fouling in the chamber soft and it does help or you can do what I do and keep a .45 cal bronze brush bent into an "L" and scrub the chamber every once in a while. Either way my 52-2 is 100% reliable shooting one handed when I do my part.

The only other thing that I have seen as a problem with 52's is limp wristing it while you shoot. The slides on these guns move slow and have a long movment to clear the 38 Special case. Anything including limp wristing the gun will slow it down even farther and cause the jams like you describe.



Kirmdog
 
Kirmdog has a good point, about limp-wristing. With the 52 yo need a good firm solid arm through the follow through.

I always loaded my own, 2.8 gr. Bullseye and never had a failure to feed in the nearly 20 years I owned it. I did not soak it with oil, just a light couple drops on the slide rails when reassembling it after shooting. I cleaned it after every time it was shot, including the magazines.

Good luck, try the lighter spring first, but you don't know what you are missing not reloading your own. You can tailor the loads to your own gun. For basic loading fur just the .38, it really isn't difficult, doesn't take up that much room, and you end up saving a lot of money in the long run.
 
I tried S&B wadcutters, they wouldn't cycle my .38 auto either. Federal Gold Match has more oomph, it works very well (but it's expensive). My handloads using 2.7 gr Bullseye are a little lighter than the Federal loads, but work fine.
 
I'm mightily impressed with this forum! I've had more input in a couple of hours on the 52-2 than I was able to gather in a couple of years on various other forums. I've ordered the 7-pound spring. When it arrives (presumably some time next week), I'll carefully clean the chamber, add a quart of oil, and have another go with the Fiocchi ammo (with the stiffest wrist and arm I can muster). I'll report the results next week.

By the way, "Who is John Galt?" :-)

Steve
 
I have a 52-2 for 25 years. At first it would fire 1 round and jam with either a stove pipe or just not quite make it into battery. This was with either factory ammo or commercial reloads. I went nuts on it for a couple of months looking for the reason. What I finally did was to trim all of my brass about .008" short. It has never failed since then. I have 5 magazines for it and I modified 4 of them to hold 6 rounds and used to shoot IPA meets with it. It will function with 148gr bullets and as little as 2.3gr of Bullseye where you can actually see the bullet go down range but mine is most accurate at about 2.9gr of Bullseye. Since trimming the brass I cannot remember when I had a jam. It also is very easy to make sure you get your brass back :) I have also used the bent .45 brush as Kirmdog has mentioned.
 
I too have had the exact same issues with one of my two 52-2's, not clearing, jamming the next round and deforming the empty.

I checked the mags, oiled the rails and the barrel bushing, not much help there.

I handload, so I am able to vary the charge, but was VERY hesitant to go beyond the 2.8-9 grains with the HBWC due to the skirt blowing off issue. (I just didn't wish to find out the hard way where that fine line is.)

I found on here, in the reloading forum, the fix is to trim the cases.

Doing so, I have much less FTE, about 5 per 100. It was 1 or more in every magazine before. So it's still not 100%, but probably as close as I'm going to get.

Why it works okay in one and not the other is beyond me and the guys that I shoot with who also have no issues with their 52-2's. All are straight factory guns.
 
they are a very finicky gun. back in the day i used 3.0-700x with a 148hbwc. they always worked and shot well. when you were told what they liked for speed was exactly right. sometimes not even 10fps less. the chamber brush is a good idea along with cleaning after every time you shoot. just a little gunk can make a big difference in these.
 
I am a former bullseye shooter, have a lot of friends that shoot these,
the spring suggestion is the way to go,( if you can"t tune the load to the gun tune the gun for the load) have done a lot of work on target pistols getting them to work with the lightest possible loads, the springs are the way to go.
 
Sorry to jump in again. If you are hand loading then what build13 and socals&w said is true, trim your brass short, I trim mine .010 short.

BUT, the problem you are having is with factory loads and I believe that if you read all the post including you original you may find your answer to your question. You said that when the gunsmith fired the 52 with two hands that there were no problems but when fired with one hand it was back to jamming. The gun is being held firmer with two hands that one and therefore the gun and it's slide are working as they should, with one hand the guns frame is rocking in your hand and slowing down the slide hence the jams.

Just my 2 cent for what it's worth.

Just one more thing. I did have some FTF problems when I bought some magazine replacment springs from a big name gun parts warehouse that were suposed to fit the 52 magazine, they seemed a bit stiff but I tried them anyway and got jams with the last 2 rounds in the magazine. This happened in two Bullseye matches during timed and rapid fire stages and really wrecked my scores with alibi's. I got smart and figured out that the springs were so heavy that they would push up the round in the magazine up against the bottom of the slide so hard that it was actualy slowing down the slide and causing FTF. I replaced those springs with the magazine springs that Wolff sells for the 52 and have had no problems since. If you are getting recoil springs from Wolff it may be benificial for you to order yourself a new magazine spring and cover all your bases.

Wolff springs are one of the few places that you can buy quality springs for the 52. If you need hammer/main springs you can use the Wolff hammer springs that are made for the model 39. My gun it takes the Wolf LONG HAMMER SPRING and I think most 52-2's do but you could call Wolf and double check if you have questions.


The 52's are a different breed, keep them well oiled and clean and they are wonderful. Treat them like they are a 1911 and you'll end up selling it out of frustration. It's a learning curve that's really not that hard to figure out.


Kirmdog
 
I shot NRA Bullseye with a 52 for several years.
My reload was 2.8gr of BE [Bullseye]. I shot Winchester or Remington factory 148 Wadcutters at 50 yards sometimes in the bigger matches.

I kept the gun oiled. I never had any functioning problems...

I used it to shoot rabbits as well.

Keep it oiled and get a spring kit and lighten the spring a little at a time with the ammo you have till it works.
 
Model 52 issues

My two favorite loads include the Remington LHBWC 148 grain bullet and either 2.5 grains of Clays or 2.7 grains of Bullseye.

I have had NO feeding issues whatsoever with my 52-2 and have yet to shoot them through my 52 no-dash or 52-1.

If I encounter an issue.....a spring kit will be on the list.

3D
 
I would second the Federal Gold Match, and the set of springs, Make sure your grip and stance are very firm, They used to say that you should hold the gun until you could see the oil start to squeeze out, then back down a little bit ;-) Seriously, I worked on a S&W Sigma with my Son-in-law, who is a cop. It would work flawlessly for me every time, even with mixed ammo. He with a much more flexible "Weaver" type stance would get lots of FTF's etc. You may want to find a real Bullseye gunsmith to tune it up for you. I might try Larry at Home - Larry's Guns Inc.
He would be my go to guy now that our old friend Don Nygord has gone to the eternal Free Pistol Match in the sky (Hey! when you die you get to do what you want)

DLB
FKWG
 
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Well, another beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact. I purchased the 7# Wolff spring and tried it out today. For the first couple of magazines, I thought I had it solved--four consecutive shots on the first magazine, all five shots on the second magazine. Thereafter, however, it started returning to the usual one or two shots followed by stoppage. This thing has worn out my patience for this year, so it's going back in the drawer until spring (at least).

I have nothing but good things to say about the Wolff gun spring folks. Extremely fast service. I ordered the spring on Friday and had it in my hands on Monday.

Thanks to all for your input.

Steve
 
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