I have a freind who is a Ex-Tulsa PD armorer and said the 3rd Generation guns they carried for 10 plus year were "50,000 rd guns" Though i never put that many through it..How many rds have you heard or think they are good for?

At what round count did you replace parts at, for need, or just sake of feeling better about it?

Ive read beretta 92/96's with aluminum frames get to about 10K and frame problems occur cracking ect.This is from my Brother with a fed agency who fires only duty ammo +P 155 grain. The (mm versions I iread can go 20-25K without problems, but the .40 version was not designed but "stolen" for that caliber.

This is just for Fun thread, so lets not get into a argument.

Generally with a S&W, replace recoil/magazine springs 5,000 rounds or 5 yrs (like an oil change).
Everything else, inspect annually and replace when/if required.

10 lashes with noodle for mentioning S&W and Beretta 92 in same paragraph.

By design they will last a long time, I remember S&W testing alloy frames by running approx. 30,000 rounds through a 9mm without any major issues. At the same time each individual gun may be different based on possible manufacturing or materials defects, ammo used, how well or poorly the gun is treated, how often maintenance is performed (including spring changes), etc., etc. It would not surprise me to find a 3rd Gen that has pushed past the 50,000 round mark.

No one knows they haven't worn one out yet.

There use to be a fellow here who had put 75,000 rounds through a second generation 645. I would expect a 3rd generation to do that much or better.

I got over 19,000 rounds through a value line 910 before I cracked a frame rail. Over 50,000 for steel framed guns would be my guess. Regards 18DAI.

Hi,
If my 5903 lasts that long without major repairs then my son will have to repair the gun.

Regards,
Howard

I think there is a certain luck of the draw factor involved in Smith 3rd Gen guns. I have two 39XXs that have very high round counts (30K + , mostly white box of some flavor). Both have some preening of the frame rails, but the cam surfaces are still OK. The barrels on both of those guns have noticeable throat erosion, but it doesn't seem to have much effect on accuracy.

However, I have seen frame failures in the aluminum frames at around 15K. The most common failures were cracked frame rails, cracked dust covers, and preened cam surfaces. Oddly, I have never seen a Smith slide fail. I've had or seen slide cracks in 1911s, Beretta 92/96, and Sigs.

I don't have enough experience with the steel frame guns to even guess.

FWIW

Charles

I put close to 20,000 rounds through my first 6906 [early model from around 1989] and didn't have any problems other than a chipped extractor. It was our duty pistol from the late 80's.

I'd be willing to guess any well cared for all-steel 9 or 45 could push 100K without major repairs. As for the alloy frames or 40s' I would say 50K might be the limit.

there's a member here that is former state police cpt, says the armorer for his troop put 50K through an alloy frame, replaced the barrel and kept shooting it. last count was something like 70K or maybe even more.
of course being an armorer he kept it in top condition recoil spring wise.

In Jan of 1980, Guns and Ammo did a '5000 round torture test' of S&W model 59.

They used ammunition supplied by S&W, with their brand on the boxes; I can't remember who used to make the S&W 'brand name' ammunition.

The ammunition was standard pressure 115gr. JHP (1000 rounds) and 115 gr. FMJ (4000 rounds).

Before the Model 59 got to the 5000 round mark, a piece of the alloy frame which contained one of the barrel unlocking lugs broke off the frame. The piece was about the size of a nickel.

That being said, I put over 30,000 rounds of my cast lead reloads through my S&W Model 59. I never replaced the recoil spring: I didn't know you were supposed to.

The frame on my Model 59 exhibited considerable wear: the slide to frame fit was noticeably 'loose'.

Still, although the dealer commented on it, I was able to trade it towards a 659 for more than I paid for it! I was pretty happy about that.

Bottom line: an alloy frame probably isn't going to last as long as a pistol with a steel/ stainless steel.

But with proper care, if you don't go crazy like I did with my Model 59, you should get a pretty high round count out of a metal framed S&W semiautomatic pistol.

Also: now when I take my semiautos to the range, I use a silicone and teflon light grease on ALL of the major wear points: frame rails, unlocking lugs, locking lugs, barrel hood, etc. etc.

My 5906's and I are smiling.

__________________
July 4, 1776 not Jan 30, 1909

One of my 745s has over 27K through it with an extractor spring replacement, the other is still being broken in at 12K. Dave_n

here's the link to the posting about this same topic, by 'ispcapt'.

S&W Autos and +P Ammo

as one poster says if the pistol runs 35K rounds than the cost of it is immaterial. in other words you got your money's worth out of it.

I recently stumbled across a 1026 at a pawn shop a week ago and traded for it on the spot as i was looking for a 10mm and did not want a Glock. Have 200 rounds through it and has yet to fail to feed or eject. Action is like a swiss watch. It does seem to shoot low and left with inconsistent groups. I am trying to determine my next step but would like to have an idea what the cause might be before taking to a gunsmith. Are my expectations reasonable to expect 5 in or less groups from this gen 3 platform at 25 yards with good ammo? I think my plan is to have the front sight checked by a gunsmith to make sure its true and then see if i can tighten the groups a bit. (when i adjust my point of aim i can bring them to center but groups are still not as tight as i would like)

Mike,

Welcome.

I suggest you post this as a separate thread.

It may never be noticed tacked onto a 7 he year old thread.

Mike - Since you don't know the history of the pistol, change the recoil spring (part #201610000). Something as simple and cheap as that may affect the accuracy.

Just FYI, make sure the pistol has been serviced under recall - there should be two dots stamped on the frame underneath the decocking lever when the lever is depressed.

Bad grouping with what ammo?

Any serious play in the slide to frame?

I suggest you not only change the recoil spring but also the firing pin spring, mainspring & magazine springs, since they're all likely the same age, after you give it a good cleaning out & lube.

.

__________________
Waiting for the break of day

,,,and rotate them so that I shoot 100 rounds/week out of each one, each gun will last over 38 years. Then I'll change the springs and go again. I'm 62 so I'll 'probably' be through with them by then. My son will have to take over after that.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Shooting Low & Left tends to be an Over-tightening
your fingers on the grip when anticipating heavy recoil...
which is a bit normal, given the pistol in question
Also would lead to inconsistant groups, as the finger
pressure would change ever so slightly each shot.

I'd suggest using a modified Jerry Miculek grip to help
resolve that...check out his "Basics" vid on Utube

__________________
Marlin & Calico Specialist