I love the pre-TSW 3rd Gen DAO trigger, its slick, reasonably light, and short. Its much like a good revolver trigger. I've never tried the TSW DAO trigger, but since its a quarter cock instead of a half cock I'm sure its not as nice. Its a shame the 3rd Gens have mostly gone away, IMO they are the best pistols S&W has ever made. The M&P 45 is nice, but its no 4586.

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Hello Cleveland, Rock and Roll

Remind me to never get you mad at me, even from a distance. Thats a ways away for an service pistol.

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That was luck as much as anything. I shot nine more and none were as close. But it is still more than good enough. I guess all were within about three feet of the target, or a six foot group. But I only want to count the first one.

As I said, tomorrow the bench, at 25 yards.

Speer Lawman ammo, BTW, I like to shoot some factory stuff in a new gun in case I get parts all over the place.

I received my 4586 from Bud's 2 weeks ago. Condition was excellent after a detail strip and clean. I installed new S&W factory grips purchased from Midway ($20). The night sights were very dim so I sent the slide and sights off to Trijicon to have them relamped. Trijicon is charging $54.00 for the service. I think this is a very fair price considering what new sights would cost. I should have the slide back in 2 weeks.
Go to Trijicon web site for return instructions, you must have a return authorization number.

Just wanted to say thanks to the OP of this thread for the heads up on the sale at Buds. I picked mine up from my FFL dealer last night. Unfortunately,I didnt get the original box or papers,just the gun itsself. The gun was in fairly good condition ( about 80-85%) overall. Had the expected light surface scratches ( most likely holster wear) inside looked quite clean,bore clean and shiny,didnt appear to have been shot much. Hope to be able to get out and test it out soon. Are there any websites that I could look up the serial # and tell about when this gun was made ? Just curious. Thanks

I called S&W Customer Service, gave them my SN and they gave me the year. TDU45XX was made in 2002. I was surprised that it was made that recent. Hope this info helps.

My 4586 is serial TDP54XX, and left the factory in OCT 1999

Midway has magazines on sale for 30 bucks. I think that's a decent deal for factory mags.

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Well, got my 4586TSW today and first impressions before firing and cleaning were not so favorable. Whoever had this for a duty weapon must not have given much thought to maintenance. Light rust on the nite sights, a gummy sticky substance on the trigger guard, bad residue and other build up, light freckling under the hogue grips, and the barrel crown looked uneven. The magazines were unbelievably filthy, and one had some pitting near the lips. The ejector spring seems like the tension is a little on the light side.

The upside was it shot to point of aim, with a six a clock hold, and the trigger pull was long but smooth. It seemed accurate enough for my purposes. After cleaning it up the nite sights glowed brightly and the internals looked pretty fresh. The extractor looks like it is in good shape and has strong tension. The frame to slide fit is very tight, almost zero play.

I experienced one FTRTB with Federal 230 grn FMJ, possibly due to op error, overall dirty condition of the weapon when fired, or weak recoil spring; maybe all three.

I plan on replacing the grips with the factory palm swell style and doing a light scotch brite and polish to the slide. Also will replace the recoil spring.

Overall I think my $299 Smith 45 is a keeper!

My frame to slide fit is pretty loose on my 4586. Barrel lockup is pretty good, which should be more important for accuracy. It has had some rounds through it before I got it. I'll be shooting it for the first time later this week.

Send that badboy in to Smith & Wesson, they'll check it over and I believe replace springs and any other worn parts. They'll also attach a rail at no charge and may even give it a bead-blasting if you ask nicely. They did all these things for me on another TSW variant I sent in back in February, didn't charge a thing for all the services, and had it back to me in one week. My 4586TSW should hopefully be arriving in Springfield today for the above mentioned services.

Did you get the matching box with your pistol? If so, what is the Special Order #?

I agree with you that whomever was issued the 4586TSW I got shouldn't be allowed a duty pistol if they're that reckless with tax-payer provided items, I'd hate to see how they treat their squad cars.

These dirty guns surprise me. If I was a LEO with a duty pistol. that might be called upon to defend my life, it's gonna be clean all of the time.

It is Wednesday July 28, 2010 and could you tell me if Bud,s have any more of these guns left for sale???

Well, when I click on the link it says, "Product not found!".
So, I assume they are out of them by now.
It has been almost 2 weeks since the OP.

On the other hand, they do still have some Beretta 96s left.

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I got my 4553TSW from Buds yesterday. Add me to the list of happy customers. No box or docs, shipped inside an envelope in a UPS box.

Mine is about 85% outside. Some worn anodizing around the trigger guard, back of the tang, and edge of the frame below the dustcover. No major dings anywhere.

Inside, it is 95% easy. The frame rails are like new. Dual recoil spring appears to be new. Night sights are a little dim, but not bad and easily useable.

The really good news for me is that whoever owned this 4553 had a trigger job done, and the barrel crowned by someone who really knew what they were doing. The crown is equal to that on my PC CQB 45 prototype and better than the crown on my PC Shorty 45 MKII !!

I ran 50 rounds through it yesterday afternoon between thunderstorms. 100% reliability. Didn't shoot it for accuracy yet. I'll get some targets and do that this weekend. Light weight, compact 45 with night sights for $290 OTD? Color me happy! Regards 18DAI.

Congratulations 18DAI but your pics aren't loading.

When I called S&W about my 4586 serial # and date made, I mentioned what a mistake it was for them not to make the 3rd gen anymore. He said they still make them for law enforcement on a special order basis.

What's this about dual recoil springs? I have this gun and three 10mms and they all have but one spring. Is this an aftermarket add on?

I lied about my night sights, they're really bright. I never saw this before. It's cool. I don't think I'll use them much though.

This is true, only if your department is currently in the 3rd Gen's. If not, no dice

We tried to get them =(

Hi everyone,
I'm the OP who started this thread nearly two weeks ago.
I've really enjoyed reading about everyone's different 4586 purchased from Bud's. I'm quite surprised by the condition of some of these pistols. You guys who got super clean guns need to go buy lotto tickets because I think you've used up all your luck for the year. I figured Bud's was blowing these out so cheap because they had reached the bottom of the barrel. Apparently for some of you that wasn't so!
So I finally received MY 4586 on Friday from my dealer. Took a week to get it since I paid with a money order. Good news, I received a blue box and manual, bad news, the box doesn't match the pistol. My 4586 has been well used, with a good bit of rattle in the slide to frame fit. The pistol was quite dirty on the outside, and the feed ramp has a lot of marks on it. Inside the situation was a bit better, and seemed to be much cleaner. What looks like rust is actually dried out grease. If I didn't know better, I'd swear it was old dried out WD-40. It was sticky and was all over the action and barrel hood. I'd love to know what the hell the Newport News PD was using to lube their guns. Worse part is all the scratches and gouges on the right side of the gun. The front of the slide around the muzzle has actually been rounded smooth and shiny from continuous contact with something (holster?). Seems to be much more than holster wear. I'm still satisfied for what I have in the gun, which is about $300 after transfer fees. Had I received this gun after paying the original $350 plus transfer I might have been a bit pissed. The trigger is decent, but nothing special. It's a bit heavier than I'd expected, but I'm totally spoiled by Beretta D spring pistols such as the 92D and 96D. Now THAT is a soft smooth DAO trigger!
I absolutely LOVE how thin the pistol is! I really like how it feels in the hand, thin but huge at the same time. It's the same size as my SIG 220, but just looks much larger than the SIG. Feels good in a IWB holster, thanks to the paper thin grips. Haven't shot it yet, too busy at the moment to make it to the range. Here are some photos.

I'd be happy to swap someone their Blue box if the box I have matches your pistol. Let me know.

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Well Dasa, looks like your pistol was at BP ground zero in the Gulf of Mexico, or it was dropped in a spittoon.

Is that a serial number of TDU41? seems too short.

May I ask for suggestions on replacement sights? I kind of like the look of the stock sights, and the pick up, but, they are a bit ground down. New grips are on the way. My IWB fits like a glove. It is still worth every penny. And my FFL charged me 20.00. To me a bargain.

I'm hoping she shoots better than she looks!
The serial is actually TDU41XX, I cloned out the last two digits.

Wow Dasa, your gun is really "rough". Mine almost looks new compared to yours. I got no box. or anything else with mine, but it's in a lot better shape, so I'm happy. I used a scotchbrite and reduced, but didn't eliminate the road rash on the slide. It would take a bead blasting to really make the slide perfect, but it's not too bad now. I have shot it twice, function has been perfect, and it hits almost exactly at POA. The slide has a slight rattle if I shake the gun violently, but it's not bad at all. I will send the slide off to Trijicon to relamp the night sites, and maybe ask S&W what it would be to have them look it over and put a rail on it. It will make a nice house gun with a laser and light combo on it.

This is just a curiosity question. What does the notch do that I see on the barrel ramp? Comparing mine and my buddy's 4586, his notch is more pronounced than on mine. Odd how it is only on one side.

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I picked up my 4586 from the FFL today and am pretty happy with it. It has some holster wear and a couple of light scratches that you can't feel with a fingernail but no pitting or rust. It came with a decent set of factory grips that feel good in my hand. The tigger feels great to me as I am use to shooting Smith revolvers in DA. It also came with the correct box and papers and the internals have some wear as would be expected on a service pistol that has seen some use but not abuse. It is also very clean but dry as a bone. The only problem is it only came with one magazine. I have already emailed Derek so with luck he will send me one. If not it's still a great deal. I will try to post pictures later.

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Well.... After putting a couple hundred rounds through it, I can officially say that I do not like DAO's and this gun will be sold or traded very soon. On the plus side, this gun will eat anything I feed it. From very cheap Russian stuff to expensive JHP's. It's accurate and it fits my hands very well.

I just can't get past the feel of the DAO. Too bad. It's a nice gun otherwise.

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DAO does take some getting use too but after a while you don't even think about it. It took me a full summer of shooting DAO before I was really comfortable with it but I also feel it is the best type of gun for CCW. You should have little trouble getting your more back.

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I'm going to give this gun one last try before I sell or trade it. I just ordered new trigger and recoil springs from Wolff. Hopefully it will lighten the DAO trigger pull somewhat without sacrificing it's dependability.

It's worth a try...

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I have a model 4553 coming probably today. I hope it is close to the 4586 I got condition wise. I was lucky the first time.

Yours looks a lot worse than mine, but from what you say a lot of the crud should clean off. I had to spend some time with 400 and 2000 grip paper to get rid of the pits on the slide. I lost the S&W and the logo in the process. The interior was almost pristine and the frame just needed a cleanup. My factory grips and bore were very good and I would say the NS's were 60-70%. That would make sense as S&W pegged mine as a 2004 pistol.

My nickle plated P220 is off at SIG for new NS's and springs, so I haven't seem them side by side, but I thought that they were about the same size. The SIG should be about 1/2 pound lighter though due to the alloy frame.

How bright should the Night Sights be? It has to be fairley dark to see mine. I have never had NS's before and would send it off to be re-lamped if they would show much brighter. This will be my house gun when it all checks out for reliability.

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I haven't had a lot of experience with them either [only my SIG's and 4586 have them], but the way I look at it is, that you should ALWAYS be able to see the front sight. As you proceed from light to dark the NS should show up before you lose sight of the FS.

I using my 4586 and P220 as nightstand guns, one on either side of the bed, so the NS's are important on these pistols. My P220 should be back today or tomorrow with brand new SIGLites, and the ones on the 4586 are bright enough for the above criteria, so I'm in good shape.

Got my 4553 in today. I lucked out again and got a good one. It came in a 4586 box with papers. Both the 4586 and the 4553 are in very good condition and still have some life left in the night sights. The officer that had it had his name on the box. I may buy a lottery ticket next.

Shot my 4586 for the first time today. Shot up about 100 rounds of ball ammo. No feeding problems. This is the first time I ever shot a DAO, and my trigger finger got fatigued toward the end of the session. I'm sure I'm more accurate with a regular SA pistol.

As for you Deanodog, it aint fair...it just aint fair you get 2 nice ones in a row. This means you are due for an IRS audit. I'll have to call them Monday and remind them

Congrats deano!! It would seem that Bud's needs to have a grading system although at that price even the rough ones were worth it, some just got extra-better deals.

To anyone who's sent or is sending anything in, apparently they're starting their two-week shutdown at this time so you might be waiting a while on warranty repairs.

I must be the only guy who got a dog. No box, just wrapped in a plastic envelope. It looked like the original owner dropped it on concrete, putting some pretty bad scratches and gouges on the left side of the slide. The front sight got knocked off to the right side. The worst part was the magazine release didn't even work. I was so mad I couldn't see straight, but a call to Bud's settled me down. They are great guys to deal with. They were very friendly and told me they would be sending a return sticker for the return.

Even though this one didn't work out, I would definitely buy from them again based on their outstanding customer service.

You ARE a dawg! That's one fine looking baby big bore pistol. Just remember you're gifting it to me when you win the lotto.

Finally took some pictures of my new to me 4586 from Bud's. I got everything but the second magazine. The box even matches the gun. A second mag is on it's way. Bud's has been a great company to deal with.

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I shot my 4553TSW yesterday for an extended range session. Nice pistol. Typical 3rd generation 100% reliability.

I'm a revolver guy who has been shooting 3rd generation TDA pistols for the last 13 years. Previously I'd fired a 4586 that member Stillwater 788 was kind enough to loan me. I'm still getting use to the DAO trigger. I did not find it "revolver like", nor was it like the Para LDA trigger as I'd hoped.

I'd describe it as an exceedingly long, smooth version of the standard 3rd generation TDA first pull. Not bad. I just need to get better at it. Accuracy was good. I was hitting in the vicinity of where I was aiming on all shots, I was just having trouble adjusting to the trigger. Overall I'm still pleased with the 4553TSW.

An interesting thing happened during the range session. I was giving a shooting lesson to a young man who brought his Glock 36 with him. He'd told me that he was having trouble shooting groups, and had been shooting for some time. He was not inexperienced.

I watched him shooting this single stack tupperware gun, and noticed that he was lined up right, just hitting 6 to 8" low every time. Then I watched his muzzle dipping as he broke his shots. I brought this to his attention. "Yea, it kicks alot!" was his response. "Let me try it" I said.

SWEET CHOCOLATE CAKE! It was like shooting 357's through one of those unobtanium wind up revolvers. My hand is still swollen. How do people intend to hit anything with one of those pistols? Folks actually practice with these guns? I don't think so.

My first shot was on the X and the following five shots were strung vertically 6 to 8" below the 10 ring. No thanks!

I gave the kid the 4553TSW and he shot a nice 3" group at 15 yards. He's contacting Buds Monday to see about getting a different pistol.

For the record I've shot many different Glocks before and found them to be accurate, and reliable. The models 17, 19 and 22 I find fun to shoot as well. These big bore baby Glocks are a different animal, for me. Make mine a metal framed 3rd generation pistol. Regards 18DAI.

Got a 4586 and a 4553 from Bud's and both were in very good condition, I am very satisfied with their service and goods.....

Had my 4586 out to play today and it was fantastic. It's going to take me a bit to get use to the trigger (was stringing low) but when I concentrated it was pretty easy to put all shots into a 3" target at 15 yards. The pull is not natural for me yet like the 642 is. It took me several range trips to master that without thinking about it.

All in all this is about the best deal I have ever gotten on a gun. It will be my primary winter carry gun in a pancake holster. An IWB would be great if I could find a decent one. I have a Summer Special for my 1911 and it's great. I have not looked to see if they make one for the 4586. Any suggestions?

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Alde, I have a 4586 and it fits my summer comfort for a glock pistol. about 65.00 bucks around here.

I'm not sure why, since I've only had one DAO gun in my life, an AMT Back-Up .380 (horrible gun) and only shot a couple other DAO guns before, but I shot my 4586 better than anything I have shot lately. I don't like the grip much, It's too 1911ish for me, too narrow and deep. I much prefer the grip of my 5906, but it didn't matter. I have a severely messed up right shoulder, and I have to keep my arm down lower than is optimal, and with the 4586, it didn't seem to hurt me much, I was doing decent groups for me (all of them in the center, and no "flyers", compared to my other guns (All 9mm) I took out to shoot that day. I like the DAO a lot better than I ever thought I would.

I would like to find an IWB holster that doesn't cost a ton of cash, and isn't going to fall apart in a few months like the one I bought for my Witness a couple years ago. Looked good, and until it came apart, worked ok. It was a nylon one, and the stitches just came out of it one day.

I ordered a new recoil spring for my 4586 from Smith and Wesson. The new one is longer, and measures about 5 and 5/8 inches long. The old one measures about 4 and 7/8 inches. I expect some shrinkage, but is this a normal amount? I'm certainly no expert on these things, so it could be fine that the new one is that much longer. Thanks

Sounds normal. Every "new" spring I've used has been longer than the old one. Springs will take a set when compressed and shorten with use. Check the Wolff Springs site for more info on springs.

Buds has just relisted the 4566TSW @ $449 on the Police Trade Ins.

FWIW: summitgunbroker.com has the 4046 @ $295, box, papers & three mags.

The one pictured sure looks nice! Thanks for the link, I sure hope somebody here puts it to good use and provides a picture show.

I might have my trijicon lamps replaced on my 4586. Where is this date code some people say is stamped on the sights. I don't see a thing. Maybe it's stamped in ink that has wiped off.

It's in white letters on the ejection port side on mine. They are faded to the point where they are almost gone though. I can't read the date.

Do yours have any life left in them? Mine are glowing but they are pretty dim. They would not be really effective the way they are. I plan to send mine in to be re-lamped within a few weeks. It's still too new to send off. I'm having too much fun with it.

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