Mounting a Clark barrel on a S&W Model 41

[mikemyers]

I am trying to install a Clark barrel on a fairly old Model 41. The trigger guard barely moves up, then gets "stuck". I found this article maybe describing how to correct this, but I'm not sure this is describing my situation - for me, the trigger guard hardly moves upwards, before it is stopped:

Fitting a barrel for a S&W model 41

Is there a write-up somewhere on the internet, that describes which parts move, and where, and how, when one moves that trigger guard upward?

I suspect that there is a part on the gun that fits into that v-shaped cutout on the back of the barrel, but that's just a guess on my part.

(...and before I actually do so, is it safe to lock the trigger guard and release it again, with no barrel on the gun?)

(The goal, is to mount a red-dot sight on the Clark barrel, rather than drilling holes on my old barrel.)

[armorer951]

If you can't find the fitting info you need, you can always contact Clark for further information....or, have them fit their barrel to your gun. This will certainly preclude any damage to the gun or the barrel.

OVER 66 YEARS OF CUSTOM GUN EXCELLENCE - Clark Custom Guns

[mikemyers]

Thanks; I was on the phone with Clay at ClarkCustomGuns a few hours ago, and he suggested what I should do. I'll talk to him again on Monday. Clark thinks I can do it on my own, and if that doesn't work out, send everything to him.

In the meantime, I'd like to understand how the parts work.

[armorer951]

Here's a web page with some excellent reading on the model 41, and a PDF of the manual. There are some very knowledgeable people here on the forum who can give you more info I'm sure.

I'm a S&W revolver/pistol armorer, but have only recently purchased a model 41.....so I'm just a novice when it comes to this fine target gun.

Model 41 maintenance

[Tom S.]

The link you posted explains it very well. Do not change anything on your gun! It's the barrel that must be fitted to the gun, not the other way around. The "V" notch in the barrel is what you are fitting, and it's very easy to do. Use a sharpie or some other marker to coat the surface of the "V". Let it dry completely, then put on the barrel, using some force, but nothing excessive. Remove the barrel and look at the "V". There should be marks where the gun latch is hitting it. This is the area you want to file. File enough to remove the mark, re-coat with the marker and repeat the process. Make certain you are filing flat across the surface. If the file is tilted, you will remove metal from one side of the "V" or the other. You want to remove it across the entire width of the "V" with each pass. Also, only file where the marks appear. While it can fell like a laborious process, it goes quite quickly and should only take 15 or 20 minutes. Once the barrel snaps into place with a bit of force like the stock barrel does, you're done. Touch up the surface where you filed it with a stone, but don't get carried away.

[mikemyers]

Originally Posted by Tom S.

.......The "V" notch in the barrel is what you are fitting, and it's very easy to do. Use a sharpie or some other marker to coat the surface of the "V". Let it dry completely, then put on the barrel, using some force, but nothing excessive. Remove the barrel and look at the "V". There should be marks where the gun latch is hitting it. This is the area you want to file. File enough to remove the mark, re-coat with the marker and repeat the process. Make certain you are filing flat across the surface. If the file is tilted, you will remove metal from one side of the "V" or the other. You want to remove it across the entire width of the "V" with each pass. Also, only file where the marks appear. While it can fell like a laborious process, it goes quite quickly and should only take 15 or 20 minutes. Once the barrel snaps into place with a bit of force like the stock barrel does, you're done. Touch up the surface where you filed it with a stone, but don't get carried away.

From what you wrote here, and my locking and unlocking the trigger guard with the barrel removed, I now understand how the parts move, and what they do.

As the trigger guard is raised, there is a part inside the gun, which I think is #54, the "pawl" which rotates counter-clockwise. At some point, this "pawl" will contact the lower surface of the "V-cutout" in the barrel.

If I'm right, the part will lock up once the pawl touches that surface, holding everything in place.

If that is correct, and if the lower surface of the "V" is too high, I see how the trigger guard won't be able to move all the way to the locked position, meaning some material needs to be removed from that lower surface of the "V". That matches everything I've read so far.


My problem isn't at the end of the process of closing the trigger guard, but at the beginning. The trigger guard moves a very small distance upwards, and then stops. Something is hitting, preventing the trigger guard from moving any further.

I've been trying to use "Dykim Steel Blue Layout Fluid" to find out where the parts are binding, but so far no luck.


Thanks to you guys and what's written above, I think I'm starting to understand what is going on, but the only explanation I have is that the "pawl" (if that's the right name) is hitting against the UPPER surface of the "V" cutout, preventing it from getting anywhere close to the lower surface where it will lock up.

Hope that makes sense, at least what I'm trying to describe. If I'm correct, filing the lower surface of the "V" isn't accomplishing anything to fix my problem. I need to remove material from the UPPER part of the "V", to allow the pawl to get to the lower surface of the "V".

(Maybe this is nonsense, but so far it's the only explanation that makes sense to me. Hopefully you guys know better.)

[gwpercle]

Unless you are sure of your abilities to not ruin any part , removing to much metal is easy, Then you have to buy another barrel, frame or part that has been damaged and still pay the smith a fee to properly fit them.

I used to do this when I thought I could fit/fix/repair my own guns. I would ruin the custom part I bought , Then have to pay the smith for more parts and his fee to fit them.
Clark Custom barrels do not come cheap.....my hard earned advice is send everything to Clark , install the barrel and do a TRIGGER job while they have it.
My Clark Custom trigger is the sweetest thing , it just puts a smile on my face and a song in my heart when shooting.... that pleasure is well worth the few dollars they charge.
Gary

[mikemyers]

This is as far as I can close the trigger guard:




...and this is what the "V" shaped area on the barrel looks like, after applying the Dykem, allowing it to dry, and then working the trigger guard up and down several times. There are two areas that look "worn", the lower edge of the "V" all the way at the bottom, and towards the right in this photo, a small area where the blue is getting rubbed off. It's difficult to photograph, although I can see it clearly with my eyes:

[mikemyers]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

Unless you are sure of your abilities to not ruin any part , removing to much metal is easy, Then you have to buy another barrel, frame or part that has been damaged and still pay the smith a fee to properly fit them...............my hard earned advice is send everything to Clark , install the barrel and do a TRIGGER job while they have it.
My Clark Custom trigger is the sweetest thing , it just puts a smile on my face and a song in my heart when shooting.... that pleasure is well worth the few dollars they charge.
Gary

Gary, the barrel arrived yesterday. Clay, at Clark Custom Guns told me not worry, if the barrel didn't work out, they would take it back, and he told me to remove metal from the "V"; I have the photo he sent me.

I'm not sure of anything right now - will probably stop where I'm at, let him look over the photos, and unless he tells me to do more, I'll ask him to send the mailing label and send the gun back to him. Getting a trigger job is an excellent idea. I've been using the gun since the early 1980's, and that would be a nice bonus.


I didn't expect to get the barrel until next February, but Clay called me to say he found one in stock. Maybe this particular barrel had a problem, which is why it hadn't been sold? I dunno.

(On the other hand, Clay may see the two 'polished' areas where the blueing was worn off, and just tell me to keep doing what I'm doing until it works..... I'll leave that up to him.)

[Tom S.]

Those are the areas you want to start filing on, especially that leading edge. I believe any new barrel your get from Clark or even S&W for that matter, will have that surface left heavy for fitting, as cutting too much, even just a few thousandths would leave the barrel fit loose.

Dykem is great for this purpose. As a Die Maker in a former life, we used it all the time for this kind of work.

[mikemyers]

Photo sent to me by Clay:

[mikemyers]

Originally Posted by Tom S.

Those are the areas you want to start filing on, especially that leading edge.....

First of all, thank you. That makes perfect sense to me. I think I'm going to wait to do anything more until I talk to Clay, but that "leading edge" is what I suspect is the problem. Until the part I think is hitting the barrel, "the pawl", can get past that edge, the trigger guard can't start closing any further. (is "the pawl" the right name for that part? It's not clear in the parts list drawing for the Model 41.)

The next question for Clay - should I just "break that sharp edge", or remove material from that entire lower face of the "V".

(I'm not a machinist, and don't have a shop filled with the appropriate tools. Anything I do, will be done by hand. Clay seemed to think this would be fine.)

[armorer951]

It's my understanding that when fitting a new barrel, there is a concern regarding how deep the barrel assy sits in the frame....does the extractor slot in the barrel line up properly with the extractor when the slide closes.
Also, the fitting at the front foot of the lug controls/dictates the "front to back" position of the bbl in the frame when locked in, and consequently, how far the slide closes on the barrel....is the slide closing to the point where it is even with the frame edge at the rear? Are these fitting areas a concern? Wouldn't these possible fitting areas also have an impact on how the pawl interfaces with the "V" in the foot of the bbl?

[smithfan4152]

Also make sure that first the barrel lay's completely flat on the frame.
I have one aftermarket barrel that was very snug between the frame rail's.
This leaves everything out of position, and makes closing the trigger guard as you have it. Most of these barrels, are tight yet when the trigger guard is released. The barrel requires a smart rap from your hand or piece of wood, to get it to pop free.

[mikemyers]

Originally Posted by smithfan4152

Also make sure that first the barrel lay's completely flat on the frame.
I have one aftermarket barrel that was very snug between the frame rail's.
This leaves everything out of position, and makes closing the trigger guard as you have it.......

I came back to this thread to post an update, and found your response. While the original barrel makes a nice metal to metal sound as it's placed onto the frame, this new barrel somehow feels different. I'm not convinced it is going all the way down onto the frame - it's hard for me to tell.

I spoke to Clay yesterday, trying to describe everything going on, which is difficult as I can't really understand it - but if the barrel isn't going all the way down onto the gun, that would sure explain what is happening now.

I took a better photo of the surface on the "V" that I was working on, and it clearly shows where the parts are binding, scraping away the 'Dykem'.

The plan is for me to send everything back to them later today (and will probably also get a trigger job, as suggested above).