Testing New 952-2

The first picture is the newest addition to my Bullseye and ISSF tools, a Smith Wesson Model 952-2 (in 9mm caliber) that is pictured alongside my SW 52-2 in 38 caliber. The 952 is very similar to my 52-2 except with a major design change of the barrel bushing, the addition of a firing pin grip safety, stainless instead of blued steel and capable of firing other bullet configurations besides the full wad cutter. The other differences for the 952 are mostly cosmetic including different rear site, a dovetail front site, non serrated trigger, Allen screws on wood grips, no rail to install a counter weight and no trigger stop. There is an adjustment that allows taking up any slack/creep in the trigger. The trigger pull is a little heavier (3.5 versus 2.5 pounds) but still just as smooth. When the gun is locked there is no rattle anywhere. The issue of follow through that exists with the 52 does not apply to the 952 because the cycling is very fast. The firearm is well balanced and easy to hold on target and because of the weight (40.1 oz) recoil is mild. Field stripping is very similar; however, reassembly is different because of the barrel bushing design. The 52 has a screw in bushing whereas the 952 uses a titanium coated bushing that sits inside a fixed housing. The tolerance is so tight that the only way I found to insert the barrel is to rotate the bushing with your little finger until it matches with the barrel and then the barrel will slide freely inside the bushing.

For the 38 and 45 there was not any literature suggesting case length is important for accuracy. For the 9mm I did find an article by Taylor (www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/9mm_reloading[/COLOR]) suggesting case length and mixed brass may have an impact on accuracy. Winchester brass and primers were used in all testing. A total of 112 cases were sorted and 44 were 0.750 as suggested by Taylor as being the most accurate (which is the recommended trim length). A total of 55 cases ranged from 0.747 to 0.749 with 11 cases that were outside of these ranges. Mixed brass consisted of Blazer, WCC, AUU, FC, UBC, and PAO.

Two bullets were tested Sierra 115 gr. FMJ Target Master and the second was Penn 115 gr. LSWC at 0.356 diameter. The case/barrel method was used to determine the OAL and two pictures are provided showing the case in the barrel chamber without any bullet and then the case with a bullet seated to a depth matching the without bullet depth. This technique produced for the Sierra 115 gr. FMJ Target Master an OAL of at 1.1255 and for the Penn 115 gr. LSWC an OAL of 1.0960 -- a taper crimp of 0.375 was selected for both rounds. I checked the Penn cast bullets by selecting 15 random bullets and weighing them and finding a mean of 112.4 gr., std. dev. of 0.17 gr., a 90% confidence interval of 0.0055 and a coefficient of variation less than 1 percent. I then checked all 500 and found two that were 113.0 gr. and one that did not have a full coating of lube in the cannelure; which are impressive statistics for this bullet.

All testing was done at 40 yards which is the maximum distance at my range from a fixed rest. A tiered approach for powder selection was used by first starting with those powders listed for each caliber’s bullet; the second tier consisted of selecting those powders that were obtainable locally and the third tier was choosing those powders that have at least a 0.5 gr. difference between min and max load. Based on these tiers Hodgdon HP38, Universal Clays, Titegroup and Winchester Auto Comp were selected.

For Sierra Match 115 gr. FMJ the best group was Universal Clays at 4.5 gr. (that produced a center to center group of 1.3 in.) and for the Penn 115 gr. cast LSWC HP38 at 4.4 gr. (that produced 1.4 inch group). I have triple checked these numbers but review your sources before trying these yourself.

I then loaded the Universal Clays charge into the shortest and longest Winchester brass and added two other randomly selected mixed brass cases and retested. A group size of 1.8 inches was produced or 0.5 inches larger than the smallest of the sorted single head stamp brass. Mixed brass does seem to impact accuracy (at least at 40 yards). I did find one article Handloading Tips for 9mm HANDLOADING TIPS for 9mm - CZF AMMUNITION-FACTORY AND HANDLOADED - GENERAL - CZFORUM.COM - Message Board that does recommend sorting by head stamp and whether any of this is important would depend on the type of shooting.

Believe it or not, the most accurate load my good friend Clem and I found for his 952 was CCI Blazer Aluminum case. Go figure........
Randy

Are you going to use the 952 for ISSF centerfire? and did you toy with the thought of getting a 6" model for centerfire. thanks Rob

Reply

Yes, I plan to shoot the 952 in the ISSF center fire event. I had been shooting my 52-2, however, (believe it or not) it has become my wife’s favorite and she can consistently hold a nine ring with it (hard for me to get any practice in). I did consider the 6 inch version (because longer site radius better for my old eyes), however, I read where some of those have had cycling problems.

When I first started competitive shooting I was skeptical about all the experienced guys talking about guns shooting better with different ammunition. Of course that changed quite quickly after some experimenting and seeing the results. So it is not surprising a different 952 shoots great with other loads, brass, etc. The 52 shoots best with Magtech 148 gr. full wad cutter with 3.2 gr. Universal Clays. I have seen other posts with many different powder/bullet combinations. I do not believe I have ever seen an article about exactly why.

As an aside, the first target with FMJ bullets shows why a lot of Bullseye shooters use the 45 for both center fire and 45 events. Had those holes been 45 cal. they would have touched the 10 ring for an additional two points.

merbeau

thanks for the info. I am particularly interested in the Penn 115 SWC test.

do you plan to try different powders or is that grouping accepatable to where that is your load for the 952?

I am using match 1911s (both accurized) 5" and 6" for PPC X and 10 ing B27 targets out to 50 yds.

the later article you posted seems to reference WST and I did buy some for testing.

I do have 231 to duplicate your load but I want to try WST and VV320 for a moderate but accurate target load that functions 100% out of my guns.

Penn Bullets

Hi SW CQB S45

Thank you for responding. I am satisfied with the Penn 115 SWC load for my 952 shooting applications. The only thing about Penn Bullets is the turnaround time which varies from 4 to 6 weeks. My order took 5 weeks to arrive. There was one other 115 SWC called Bushwacker but the company is out of business. The wait time is the reason I decided to test the Sierra 115 FMJ bullet.

Staying below the speed of sound in the 9mm seems to be where the greatest accuracy occurs. I read where the Army did some testing and found between 25 and 50 yards the bullet drops below speed of sound and causes wobbling which can impact accuracy. Penn does make a variety of other bullets including 152, 180 and 200 SWC for the 45 ACP.

I believe that HP38 and W231 are very similar. My dealer where I buy my reloading supplies does not carry Vihtavuori or Ramshot powders so I could not test those. Winchester WST is a long standing great powder for many pistol applications.

I did do the same test (i.e., bullet seating depth etc.) with a SW 945 (45 ACP) and found 5.6 gr of Universal Clays with Oregon Trail 180 Laser Cast SWC with an OAL of 1.2480 and taper crimp of 0.470 gave some good results. I have attached a photo of the test target. This particular load required changing the spring in my 945 to the wadcutter. SW provides two springs, one for full loads and another for reduced loads.

Results for the SW 52-2

Because the SW 52 shoots a full wadcutter, the OAL is important for the magazine. If the OAL is to long the ammo will not cycle.

For the SW 52 Magtech 148 gr. HBWC was used and seated even with the case and a taper crimp of 0.368 was selected which matches that of Winchester factory target ammunition.

Universal Clays at 3.2 gr gave the best results (see attached photo) and is a very reduced load which is the reason my wife likes to shoot this particular handgun. You can literally see the brass eject out of the ejection port.

merbeau said:

Hi SW CQB S45

Staying below the speed of sound in the 9mm seems to be where the greatest accuracy occurs. I read where the Army did some testing and found between 25 and 50 yards the bullet drops below speed of sound and causes wobbling which can impact accuracy.

Click to expand...

what is that magic number related to FPS on 9mil?

Speed of sound

The speed of sound is 1100 ft/sec. Most of the cast loads that seem to be very accurate fall in the 1025 to 1080 range. Also the faster the speed the more likely leading will occur.

most of my stuff has been in the 900 range.

I need to bump it up a little.

thanks for the info.

I plan to try VVN320 and WST. Maybe some VVN310 too.I need to order some Penn 115 slugs.

9mm Powders

I looked yesterday and could not find any load information on WST for 9mm cast bullets. You may have to call Hodgdon to see if they have any information or do you have a source?

I did find data for 231 and it looks like 3.8 to 4.8 is the range listed for 115 cast bullets. I would not exceed 4.3/4.4 in my testing. I started at 4.0 and incrementally went 0.1 grs. or 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4 and stopped. You should double check these numbers before starting.

I did load some 3.8 231 behind a 124 lead TC and they were accurate but very soft shooting.

I was inducing malfunctions with this load because I ride the slide with my big paw (thumb) because of the slow slide velocity with a 10lbs recoil spring.

I had to think to move my thumb away. I fixed this by installing a ed brown thumb safety with the larger pad that is also angled downward.

Have you tried the 147 FP lead. I dont know why I have stuck with this slug. My thinking the larger bearing surface would have an better impact on accuracy....but the 124/125s have been more accurate. I think I just need to find the right slug/powder combo.

But I definitely want to try 115 Penns.

Meister makes a 147 SWC but very PRICEY!!!! there I am back on the heavier slugs.....go figure.

let me see if I have any WST 9mil data. may take me a few days to get back. been bizzE. I think I bought it for 45acp though.

I did load some accurate 200LSWC using 3.5 VVN310 at 1.250. its under the min of 3.7 but still had some snap to it.

I want to send some to a buddy for chrono'ing but have been bizzE lately. And I just bought another Dillon 550 and need to improve my loading room to house 3 550s.

Bullet weight

I usually try to load the lighter bullets first because they do not produce as much recoil. I have been a target shooter for years and in rapid fire events the recoil becomes a factor for scoring well.

I have not tried the 147 gr. bullet because of the above stated reason. I did find a 122 gr semiwadcutter - can not remember the source. There are not a lot of load data for this weight bullet.

The driving bands on cast bullets should provide ample surface area for catching the rifling.

If you are having problems with accuracy it may be due to the size of the rifling. There is a lot of variation in diameter and you may need to slug the barrel.

Below is the quote from the Penn Web site for 9mm

....The most common problem that I hear from customers is they encounter a lot of bullets that tumble or very poor accuracy when they hit the target. This usually indicates that the bullets are loose and one is not achieving a good fit of the bullet to the barrel. Certain pistols were more prone to these problems. Ruger and Beretta pistols were the most notorious in having oversized barrels but it could be found on other brands as well. Sig Sauers and Browning Highpowers were the "tightest". It was not uncommon to see barrels with dimensions of .357 or .358. Slugging the barrel to determine the right size is the first step to eliminating the problem. I have sold many 9mm bullets sized to .357 and .358to get the guns to shoot well. Yes, the cases do bulge but they still feed and function in the guns so the problem is cosmetic...

My 952 miked to 0.355 and I ordered the standard size 0.356for testing. Penn will make larger sizes for no additional cost. I would not order a larger size without first slugging the barrel because if it is standard, then pressures would increase using larger sizes.

I have been interested in owning a 952 so your thread was right up my alley. May have pushed me over the edge.

I take it you are shooting lead bullets for economy... ? Certainly understand that, but just wondering if it is worth it. Do you switch from lead for practice to jacketed for matches?

Interesting reading. Thanks.

Lead versus FMJ

Hi M29Since14

I shoot cast in practice and in matches. Have done that for years. The only thing different that I do for matches is to use new brass and to weigh my bullets and powder charges. Economy and extended barrel life is the reason.

For practice I use previously fired brass and use my loader's powder charge unit and do not weigh my bullets.

The trigger on the 952 is really smooth. I adjusted the slack to be minimal so that it does not take much to make a round go down range. The fit is the other thing that is remarkable. The bushing takes time to fiddle with. Sometimes it only takes a couple of twists and othertimes it takes numerous tries. SW Performance Center does not recommend taking the bushing out, but rather clean it with a degreaser and then light lube when inserting the barrel.

New 952-2 problems

Brought my new 952-2 to the range after cleaning and re-assembly. It was a little fiddly getting the barrel into the Bushing (or vice versa), but all was fine in the end. The slide seemed tight, but it could have been the recoil spring.

At the range each of 5 shots failed to eject, three with Remington 115 gr. Two with American Eagle 124 gr. FMJ. Two looked piggybacked with a fresh round nose pressed against the spend case still in the chamber. One or two had the spent case next to the port but no fresh round was chambered.

Our range instructor observed this and shot a round with same effect. I returned the pistol to S&W.

I'm disappointed of course. Any helpful comments/diagnoses are greatly appreciated.

Davidus

Hi

Is the 952 an early model (952-0 or 952-1) - some of these had problems with the ejection pin stop. I would also check the magazine. My came extremely dry. You can disassemble the magazine and place a light coat of lubrication on the spring and then reassemble the magazine. Sometimes the plastic at the top of the magazine will catch the lip of the magazine. Check for this. The recoil spring may be a little heavy and a lighter recoil spring may solve the problem.

These guns are extremely tight and make sure before firing you place a drop of oil on the rails and work the action back and forth to have the gun lubed. I do this before shooting -- several of my Bullsye shooting partners gave me that tip.

952-2 Ejection Failure

This is a new model with 6" long slide. I used Rem oil on the magazines before firing, as I do with my model 41.

I used Hoppe's on the slide rails and frame guides.

This Performance Center pistol is only going to use light recoil target ammunition.

Extractor issues?

if the gun went back....hopefully it just needs minor adjustment.

why are you oiling the mags?

if its a light coat for rust prevention on blued mags or the steel spring....then ok.

if the follower does not move freely...then find the culprit and address the issue.

if they are poly followers, sometimes a little scraping or sanding in the right places smoothes out there operation.

reference the briley bushing to barrel fit. lots of oil, lining up perfectly, patience and a few choice words are in order. years ago....I could not get my 945 barrel to line up. I think I tried for at least 10-15 min and then walked away. I came back later and it went right on.

sometimes I had to rotate the spherical ring. probably did nothing, but it would sometimes go on after that, so I went with it anyway.

hope it works out for ya.

The six inch versions have had some issues with cycling. My 945 came with two springs, one for wadcutter loads and another for more heavy duty loads. I shoot reduced loads and use the wadcutter spring. With reduced loads, especially near the minimum charge the gun may not cycle. I have had that also happen to me with a SW 41 with some 22 ammunition. I just purchased a lower weight spring.

Make sure if you do this to place the replaced spring stored with a label. That way if you replace it later you will know what it is.

Magazines are oiled for rust prevention and functioning.