I have used only two S&W all steel 45's, the 645 and 945. Both have been suoer reliable feeding anything from 185 gr. LSWC to 230 gr FMJ's. I use the 945 for bullseye pistol matches and some pistol games. The 645 is used in some pistol games and is carried in my car.
I recently purchased he full size M&P45 which has proven to be equally reliable but with a very gritty trigger.

I did pick up a mint 645 with no box some time ago , its been flawless and has a real nice 1st shot D/A pull . I picked up an old but like new Safariland shoulder rig in brown leather for this 645 its also same vintage .

Do you know if anyone still makes leather for the 645?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This thread is just fantastic. Just the history and the depts using the 3rd gen guns! Thanks SIS!

Did the sis get rid of the glocks for Kimber 1911's?

In the late 1980's I became a member of the U.S. Customs Special Response Team in Los Angeles. At the time the U.S. Customs Service allowed for an agent to carry many different personally owned weapons. Since I had been in the Military Police, I was very comfortable with a 1911 pistol. I carried one for about six years before transferring to the Los Angeles area. After my second year on the team, the policy was changed, and we could no longer carry single action autos.

I went to a 645 almost immediately, and it was a great pistol, especially in a tactical role. I carried in a thigh rig, so concealing it was never an issue. I also purchased a 4516-1 as a concealment gun, and it worked just as well as it's larger counterpart. I carried the 645 and 4516-1 until Glock came out with the Glock 21. With it's high capacity, I soon retired the S&W's.

Shawn,

That rule is particularly with 1911s. Doesn't apply so much to 3rd gen Smiths. My Shorty 45s (3 3/4 inch barrels) will feed everything from ball to an empty case. My experience is not at all unique.


Cat

__________________
Think for yourself.

It seems in this thread some are skeptical about the reliability of the short barreled .45s, such as the 4516, etc.. I've carried a 4516-1 on-duty and have never had a malfunction of any sort. We issue 230 gr. Speer Gold Dot and use many brands of 230 gr. ball for practice...never had a problem. We even shot up a bunch of donated Winchester underpowered 185 gr. LSW match ammunition and I've never had a problem, whereas the 1911s haven't been so problem free.

My only advice to those using the 4516s is when your factory recoil springs wear out replace them with the 19# Wolff springs as they work extremely well.

I wouldn't be afraid to carry a short .45 3rd gen. I've got two search warrants planned tomorrow and I'll be carrying one without any worries whatsoever.

With the West Virginia State Police staying with the 4566's maybe S&W will start up production to all on the 4566 line again. I would love a run of 4506's too, but at least the 4566 is a start!

I won't try and second guess those gents who have seen the elephant with the 4516. I have had several years of experience with S&W 3rd gen 45's with barrel lengths under 4", so I will share some of my thoughts on the S&W "shorty" 45's.

Fortunately, the two times I've "been there" - I've not had to "done that". Both times were with a sixgun anyway.

Like Leiden, I've qualified with and carried the 4516-3 on/off duty. As many of you who have read about my experiences with the 4516 will know - probably ad nauseum - my 4516-3 is the only 3rd generation pistol I've had to malfunction.

The first malfunction - a few years back, was a mechanical parts failure. The MIM mag catch snapped during an IDPA match. The 4516 WAS STILL FUNCTIONAL and could be fired using the old "teacup" hold. I finished the stage with it, and switched to my 4513TSW back-up.

I replaced that MIM mag catch with a forged steel 4566 mag catch. Despite the rantings of the MIM defenders I see MIM as the cost cutting/profit generating/cheap pot metal junk that it is. Ever notice even the most vociferous MIM defenders always say; "MIM is <insert your favorite percentage>% as strong as forged parts!" Notice that they never claim MIM is "100% as strong as forged parts". I noticed that too.

At the last qualification I requalified with the 4516-3 for on/off duty again. During the day/off duty portion, while firing Winchester Ranger 230 grain RA45T, I started to experience a failure to feed on the sixth round in the mag. TAP RACK back in the game. Troubled me though as I had never had a malfunction before.

The 4516-3 wasn't very dirty, was properly lubed, and had less than 1000 rounds on the dual recoil spring. I figured it was a mag problem. A quick run through the SRT "playground" confirmed it. One mag had a spring weak enough that the slide was out running the mag - at the sixth round up.

I've not had any failures with my 4513TSW's or PC Shorty 45. I've shot IDPA games with the 4513TSW's. While not training, IDPA does provide good gun handling practice. While its not "for real" - adrenaline coming out of your ears - shoot for serious, it does present unusual shooting positions and in my case quite a few less than perfect draws/grips.

I've also shot the 4516-3 in the IDPA games and not experienced a malfunction - other than that already discussed.

I think the early 4516's - the no dash variants were more susceptable to malfunctions than the later variants. Improvements in the magazines (followers & springs) the beefier slide (cured the slide inertia problem) and the switc to dual recoil spring set-up made for a reliable shorty 45.

Switching from the factory OEM grips to Hogue makes a vast difference, to me, in the handling of the 4516 as well. Even newbs have failed to experience a stoppage while shooting my Hogue gripped 4516-3. This is a pistol that is less susceptable to limp wristing than other short 45's, IMO of course.

I am most appreciative of the LAPD guys sharing their experiences with us here on this board. Nothing like real life experiences to show you what can/will may happen "out there".

I will continue to carry the 4516 and other short 45's when conditions call for it and WILL be mindful of my recoil springs and mag springs too! Regards 18DAI.

I wonder how many LAPD Officers have switched back to the 4506? It seems that they are getting hard to find!

when i was still a workiong police i carried a sig 220 as an off duty gun and was very happy with it. now fast forward to retirement, a beautiful thing by the way, i have a shorty 45 ,aka 4513 , on layaway at the shop i work part time. listening to the comments i wthink i will be happy shooting it and even carrying it

When I joined the Sheriff's Department in 1993, we had to provide our own guns. I chose the 4566 as it was already approved for carry. I stayed with that gun until "forced" to go to the Glock 21 in 2000 (as a command officer, I could have continued to carry the 4566, but the Sheriff, who was really a nice guy as well as a professional law enforcement officer, thought that the command officers should lead by example). Most of the other deputies that carried a .45 carried either a 4506 or Ruger P90 (I was the only deputy that carried a 4566). Since the first autoloader I carried as a LEO was a S&W M39, I always carried with the safety ON. I felt comfortable, and not the least bit encumbered, with the "proprietary" safety.

Man I had no idea this thread was still going.You guys should keep pumping 1/74 he is way too modest about his expertise.John was also a swat team member for years before SIS and holds a couple black belts with high degrees if Im not wrong. One day he should do a book it would be as good as Cirillo's. John Lisa says hi!
To answer 18's question,we never allowed any aftermarket parts that the manufacturer didnt approve.So all springs were factory springs ,sometimes we did action jobs on the guns (reliability package)S&W called it but that was ok'd by S&W as we were all trained armorers and everything was kept within factory specs.
The main reason for this was liability issues that could arise if their was a problem with a gun or a shooting. Now we do nothing to the guns because of those same issues. Hogue grips have always been approved ,Yes Guy Hogue was an LAPD armorer ,the last in a long line of LAPD gripmakers Stark ?/ Farrant,Hurst,Hogue if Im not mistaken all great fellows, from what Ive been told,John Hurst(olympic shooter)and Mr Hogue were always great to LAPD guys.
About the S&W 45s and springs I know this from servicing thousands,the full size guns recoil spring is massively overbuilt and very seldom if ever needs to be replaced unless something is wrong with it (bent,nicked etc). So if you have a feed problem with these models ,look to the mags.The 4566/63, once that spring takes a 1/2 inch set or more it needs to be replaced.How soon depends on how hot the ammo you are shooting is (wear on the spring) normally 4-500 rds a year qualifying and training days,gun never gets too hot every 4-5 years. If you shoot alot,remember heat effects the metal in the spring 500 rds a day for a week ,I would check the spring.
The smaller guns have been covered, for a duty gun ,I would change it once a year or more if I shot it alot.
Another thing with the .45, look at your rounds, I discovered looking at duty ammo turned in after qual(we issue new ammo every six months) lots of the rounds would be shorter than normal.We all load and unload our guns alot,for administrative purposes.Normal officers think nothing of it but that round in the chamber and the first round in the mag get changed back and forth.The round in the chamber is ok but if that first round in the mag has the bullet setback and is shortened it may cause a feeding problem.The ogive of the bullet needs to strike the feedramp at a certain spot and angle and timing sequence for the gun to function at a premium.So replace those rounds or put them in the bottom of the last mag or whatever every so often.WHEW, I havnt typed this much since my last travel request.
Some of this stuff is my own thoughts and that of guys I work with so take it for what value you can and good luck bob

Great info would love to hear more on the 4506's in use with LAPD and from 1/74SIS!!

I have obtained a 4586 that I believe was a police trade in. I haven't had a chance to take it to the range and was wondering if anyone has experience with this gun. Any issues out there on this one? I started off with a 5946 and had to go to Glock years later. This is the first thread I've read cover to cover in a long time. Thanks.

I have had my 4506 since NIB over twenty-years ago. In all that time, it has devoured everything (even my shoddy hand-loads) with no memorable history of problems. It's cycled literally tens of thousands of rounds, and I have NEVER replaced a single thing. Not even the recoil spring has tired. Just amazing.

The ONLY complaint I have with my pistol is that there is a glaring manufacturing defect with the front of the slide. In the recessed front, ahead of the dust cover (not sure the proper term, to be honest) one side has noticeably deeper machining marks then the other side. I'll have to post a picture when I get the chance. It has no affect on performance, but someone at S&W quality should be ashamed of themselves for their lack of attention back in the day...

Please post those pics. My 4506 has some machining issues, mainly in the frame, where the dustcover meets with where the recoil spring guide goes into, right next to where the slide contacts the frame. That area where they have that little recess, the left side looks to spec, the right side looks like someone slipped!

So different than my much newer 5906. Difference between CNC and non-CNC?? I'll see if I can get some pics of the area in my pistol.

Note though that I'm not complaining...just wondering if you're guns issue is the same as mine.

__________________
Thanks,
KPSqured

My first year production Model 645 I had customized by Final Option Enterprises. Black stainless finish, reshaped frame, trigger guard, hammer, single side safety, with 3 dot Novak sights added, and a 3rd generation Model 4516 slide fitted to it as a concealed carry option.

Excuse me but how durable has this finish been for you and how close do you think it is to the robar Blackening finishing they do?
Robar Black Oxide, e-Nickel & Chrome Sulfide Finishes

the reason why I'm asking is because I'm planning on getting a 645 and having the finish redone in one way or another and I kinda like the look yours has going for it there.

I'll snap some pictures just as soon as possible. I've been meaning to show the hand-refinish on the flats, anyway. That will tell the whole story about the wonky machining on mine.

Since purchasing my barely used 4566, I have run no less than 1000 rounds through the firearm at the range (ouch, that's getting pricey!) with no problems whatsoever-even with sloppy cleaning methods. (no full takedown when cleaning)

Two of my other guns are in the shop after similar high volume shooting-the stainless 4566 'energizer bunnied' both of them.

As promised. Here are the photos showing the irregular machining on my 4506. This weirdness is literally the only bad thing about the gun. Nothing else is asymmetrical, or otherwise poorly machined. The slide to frame relationship is looser than most Hollywood marriages, but it's always been that way and probably one of the reasons the gun just never jams. You could probably wedge a few rocks in there, and it would keep on shooting. Granted, that sort of sloppy tolerance would piss off most of the members over on the 1911 boards...

My 6906 doesn't have any poorly machined parts. HOWEVER, the starboard side safety rubbed on the thick frame, right out of the box. I just filed that little piece down a little, and that solved it. Odd though. I should someday see if other owners had that same problem.

Attached Images

examples.jpg (32.6 KB, 296 views)

One of my 4506s has the same machining marks as yours. It's never affected function, and I just noticed after seeing your photos. If that is the only fault I can find with the gun I'm OK with it.

My 4506 i bought new in 1990, sent it to Robar for NP3 carried it for 10 years or so then went the plastic route and recently just switched back to my 4506. After a complete re-spring job, a new trigger since original had some hairline cracks, and 5 new mags, XS Big Dot sights. planning on carrying until i retire.

Stainless has held up very well especially with the Robar NP3 finish.

Just added a CS-45 that just arrived from Birdsongs with the Green-T Finish.

[QUOTE=SemperFuzz;135917202]My 4506 i bought new in 1990, sent it to Robar for NP3 carried it for 10 years or so then went the plastic route and recently just switched back to my 4506. After a complete re-spring job, a new trigger since original had some hairline cracks, and 5 new mags, XS Big Dot sights. planning on carrying until i retire.

Stainless has held up very well especially with the Robar NP3 finish.

Just added a CS-45 that just arrived from Birdsongs with the Green-T Finish.



Would you recommend the NP3 finish? I was curious how that works/looks applied over the bead blasted original finishes.

Do they smooth out the finish or does it end up looking pretty much like the original with a different tone?

I am contemplating the Factory refinish as well, but was curious about how the 3rd gen Smith takes the finish.

Thanks for the pics and any input.

__________________
Is it safe?

First and foremost let me thank all the forum members that have contributed to this thread, especially 1/74SIS. This may be a bit of a rabbit trail for this particular thread, but here goes. I have been a dedicated .40 cal shooter for over ten years and have been able to restrain myself regarding the .45s. Yeah I know, what was I thinking. After reading and re-reading this thread twice and having a certain fondness for stainless Smith autos, I cannot resist the urge any longer. Given the 4506 appears to be near full size with a 5" barrel and the 4566 is closer to my 4006 in barrel length, I'm thinking I'd like to acquire one of each. Now the question. Of the various iterations of both of these models, are there any particualar dash models to be avoided, or will any no dash, -1, -3, etc. serve me well. Use will be target, farm carry, and home protection. Thanks for your keen insights and willingness to share your experiences.

I wish I had some super experience to highlight the S&W 3rd Generation 45XX series, but I really don't. I work for an agency you probably read about on occasion in even the smallest local newspapers across the county, but that doesn't really add anything to the S&W experience as we authorized many different pistols.

I've carried a 4506-1, 4516-1 and 4563TSW for a while...a while in the rain, in the mud, in the blowing sand, inside a trash dumpster, on high risk stops, in an entry stack, and shoved down the back of my jeans while scared to death. In all cases I've had complete confidence in any of them and have learned what they do really well and what not so well (in my experience at least).

4506-1

This my uniform and anything other than concealed plain clothes carry pistol. I've learned it'll feed anything I can shove in the magazine and will hand cycle empty cases with equal enthusiasm as live rounds/dummy rounds. The 4506-1 will easily keep pace with the custom Kimber 1911s we use for the tactical team, but in my opinion is much more reliable. It is very easy to maintain and reliable to a fault. It's heft is comforting when it's out and stands out at night when pointed at a person intent on doing you harm. I prefer the traditional double action to single action only and like the simplicity of drawing and firing, without having to push a button or flip a switch. As a side note, the 4506s have been around so long and have made such an impression that they tend to command respect and have a following in their own right quite separate from the person carrying it. To illustrate this I've seen on multiple occasions where the deputy/officer carrying the 4506 gets the immediate attention of the average citizen or older officer as they recognized it as being different than the common plastic pistols found on LE use.

4516-1
I've carried his pistol for years in plain clothes use and everything I just said about the 4506-1 pertains to it as well. It's basically a Colt Officer's Model that works all the time and doesn't require a switch being flipped to turn it on. I have found in the -1 model the 19# Wolff springs work best when the factory springs wear out. I've added a spurred hammer to it to make it a "mini-4506" and I love the fact that it's the same manual of arms and I don't have to re-think what I'm doing.

4563TSW
I recently switched to this pistol for concealed carry, non-uniform use and it has all the same attributes as the 4506-1 and 4516-1, but with a significant weight reduction. I've found the extra recoil isn't hard to overcome, but the pistol doesn't look as "traditionally pure" as the 4506-1 and 4516-1 if that makes sense. While I love it and use it daily, I could live without the big billboard "45 Tactical" on the side.

I don't have any cool stories to share specifically related to the 45XX series, but I can say I've shot them muddy, sweaty, bloody, inside a building, outside, with a gas mask on and off, rested and exhausted, and without exception each and every one hasn't failed to put the round where the front sight goes, and do it repeatidly until the magazine was empty or replaced with a fresh one.

The 45XX series does get attention from others in uniform...some wonder why the "boat anchor" is still around and go back to playing with their Kimbers and plastic guns, and some look at it and silently knod figuring you carry it for a reason (cause you will stand out) and respectfully want to find out what you know that they don't.

All in all, having complete freedom to carry something else, I won't.

If I could have one wish though, I'd like to have a 4506-1 with a CHP-style integral rail...that would be nice to have.

If you get a chance to buy one, don't hesitate. If you can get a 4516-2 insead of a -1 I'd do that as recoil springs are much easier to find.

If you're wondering what the 45XX series doesn't do well that would be answered by it's weight. The 4506-1 and 4516-1 aren't light pistol. They aren't too big to carry concealed, but of you're the kind of guy that wears shorts and a small belt there are better choices (the 4563TSW). I'm 6'02 and 220 pounds and feel like I can easily carry any of them easily and find a proper belt and holster take away any excuses.

I have never regretted buying a S&W 45XX and when younger LE look at it and roll their eyes, I don't hold it against them when they eventually ask to borrow it and then ask "Does Safariland make a duty holster?"

Get one if you can, be glad if you already have one, and if you're required to carry plastic on-duty, well, there are those of us out there who understand.

One last thing....holsters.

If I could recommend anything to guys who are starting out with the 45XX series for LE use, it would be to realize SIG P228/P229 holsters fit the 4516-1, P226 holsters fit the 4566s and even the 4506s, but the 4506s stick out a quarter inch. Safariland makes duty holsters for all of them and the 4563TSW with a X200 on it fits the Safariland P226 with X200 duty holster. I like the Aker leather holsters as they do a great job for the money. An any given day I carry a 45XX with two spare 8 rd magazines, a S&W 649 and a 5 rd .38 reload in a Safariland Comp1 speedloader (carried in a Safariland Split-Six pouch between my primary gun and badge).

In short, when you think of the 45XX series and are trying to find a holster, look at the SIG holsters as they'll usually fit. If you want a kydex holster for a 45XX I don't think the SIG versions will fit. If you're interested in a 45XX, you're probably not a kydex sort of guy anyways.

By the way, A. E. Nelson leather in Oregon makes outstanding duty gear for the 45XX series. I carry 5 spare magazines plus the one in the pistol and their quad mag pouch carries the magazines easily. S&W 45XX series and black basketweave go hand in hand...but, yes, Safariland makes holsters and so does Bianchi in their Accumold variety.

Leiden, hats off to you.
I do not carry one on duty (I'm active duty Navy and carry an M-9 every day) BUT I would not hesitate for a split second if I were able to switch to the 4566 I bought a few years back. The previous owner was Tennessee State Patrol (trade in I bought from Summit) and it is a very smooth and reliable weapon, and although somewhat heavy, it's not nearly unmanageable. I carried a government 1911 for years and never cared about the weight, and this 4566 weighs less.
It's wonderfully accurate, and with a spring change will handle 45 Super loads. It's a fantastic pistol, and I would choose literally nothing else as my duty piece. (and unlike many of my peers, I'm actually a supporter of the M-9 and like it very much)

If I could only have one S&W for everything from uniform to UC work it'd be a 4566. In my prayers every night I thank God for the freedom my agency has and ask for a pay raise. If it came to giving up my freedom and getting a raise I'd pass...and that's why I'm here I guess.

Thank you for your service and be confident in your M9. I had an occasion to use one once and don't have any complaints.

I've had to use one more than once, and I agree, it's a fine pistol. And it's such total nonsense that it won't run in the sand. What it's won't do is function in the all-too-prevalent environment in the military called NEGLECT.
The 4563 you have has the ugly *** billboard, but a green scrubby and that vanishes. Seriously, it's laser etching, not a rollmark, and it comes right off. My 5903TSW had the same thing and it is a thing of the past.

I will have to go buy a green scrubby and take it off.

While many would disagree with me, I respectfully submit a properly lubricated M9 is superior to the S&W 45XX series in reliability. What the S&W 45XX series will do, however, is run well when not properly lubricated.

I find the new law enforcement officers with my agency universally choose the Glock or 1911....an overwhelming amount choose the Glock. For $389 with three magazines they are hard to beat, and they seem to survive the neglect our non-gun, non-hunting, non-prior service, do-the-minimum-acceptable, "this is only a job," type officer is seemingly capable of producing.

" non-gun, non-hunting, non-prior service, do-the-minimum-acceptable, "this is only a job," type "
^ this.
I get these guys all the time. "I don't like guns" they say.
"Good thing you're not in the ARMED FORCES" I always tell them.

Back to the S&W: Strangely, the Beretta got me started on 3rd gen Smiths. I love 1911s and revolvers, and because of shooting them I just CAN NOT STOP riding the slide stop with my thumb on basically everything out there that isn't a Beretta or a S&W auto. They are just far enough forward to allow me to place my thumb where the safety would be on the 1911 and NOT ride the slide stop. You know how many times I had failure to slidelock on empty mags with a Sig 228? Maybe a thousand.
I love the controls of the Beretta, especially the "G" model with the decocker-only function. My 4566 has this same feature, and I tried to send my 6906 in for conversion to this feature, but Smith tells me they no longer do it.
I still love 1911s, but to get one that runs like my 92G and 4566 and 6906 AND shoots straight, you have to spend a little over a grand. It cost me more than that to get the Colt I have now and more than that for the Smith Custom Pro I 1911 that I recently grabbed. In fact, I'm trading the Custom Pro I for a Smith 4567 with night sights next week. I could not find a 4563 locally, but the search is on.
sorry for the rambling reply. As I get older I get more loquacious.
Best,
Steve

I got started on S&W 3rd gens when I went to a UC/street jump school taught by LEOs/FBI (I think the LEOs were LAPD or ex-LAPD, maybe, but not 100% sure) and they had 4506/4516s. I was amazed they always worked all the time and the idea of putting the safety on and being able to wear it without a holster was fantastic. I didn't realize back then that only good guys wore holsters.

In any case, the 45XXs worked a lot better than my Colt 1911 and was in my mind at least safer to carry.

I also liked the idea of being able to press the mag release and it instantly de-activated the entire pistol...I like that but many don't.

4506 is a nice handgun. 1911 has nothing on it. It is so sturdy that you could use it as a club if you run out of ammo. Very little recoil for 45 ACP, even for a newbie.

Couldn't agree more! I love 1911's to, but the S&W 4506 is probably one of the most reliable 45 pistols out there! Its a shame S&W doesn't offer it or the 4566 anymore except special LE Orders.

I'm pleasantly surprised to begin seeing more S&W 3rd Gens in the hands of young LEOs at my agency. I saw a newer baby deputy with a 4006 the other day and asked him why he was carrying that (he didn't see my concealed 4506) and his reply was, "It was either carry German aluminum, Austrian plastic or American steel...I chose American steel."

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Not LEO here, but wanted to share something I found on finishes. This is my 4013 (converted to 1013) that I had cerakoted. Amazing finish, extremely tough, and man does it look good Graphic black on top, gun metal gray on bottom, and left trigger, hammer, slide release, decocker and mag release natural S&W.

__________________
God, country, family.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My favorite topic Guns, S&W and .45's. When my department allowed.45's as duty carry I immediately went to class and one of the 1st to carry the 645. I loved it, performed flawlessly. I got burged one night and lost my 2nd true love, the 45 was gone. I went out and got a S&W 457 and was extremely impressed with everything about the handle, weight, trigger pull, sights etc. A little more than a year later I got a call from LAPD, "come and get your gun". WHOA BABY. Some dirt bag stopped for speeding, found a lot of dope, found a lot of small bills and found my STOLEN 45. Can you say enhancement? Poss of drugs, Poss for sale, and poss stolen handgun= 7 years on a second offense. I still love the 457, but im IN love with the 645.

AND a question, I always learned after a mag exchange, hit the slide release. I've watched TOP SHOT and a few other programs and notice the top shooters will put in a new mag and rack the slide back from the locked position. Am I getting old and this is something new? Any opinions offered would be appreciated.

many teach this technique as it involves a gross motor movement as opposed to finding the slide stop which may be difficult in a stressful situation.

I say train, train and train. its probably good to know both.

I'm bringing this back to thank all who have shared, thanks it's been a good read!

Hope to pick up my first all steel 3rd gen .45 tomorrow.

This thread is great, wish S&W would take notice and offer the 4506/4566/645 for sale again!

Leonardo1947,
SW CQB 45’s comments are correct. I first saw this technique when I was forced to transition to a Glock.  The folks at Glock refer to the slide release as a slide stop and most of them (on Glocks) are very tiny and flat so they are hard to manipulate. Glock instructors teach shooters to grasp the rear of the slide and pull it to the rear to release it from the locked back position. Under stress, it is easier to grasp the slide (much like what we do on a malfunction or tap, rack, ready drill) than it is to hit a small lever.

My dept. now carries the M&P .40 family and instructors are teaching new recruits to grasp the slide and pull it to the rear to drop the slide. After 27 years of shooting I still want to drop a slide by the slide release but on occasion I find myself grasping the slide to the rear and letting it fly. Ultimately, it’s all muscle memory and how you normally do it will be what you revert back to. One of my favorite sayings is, “Train like you fight. Fight like you train.” There is a lot of truth to that!

I have been instructing firearms to cadets this week. Today a cadet brought a G17 to class with a Vicker's slide lock/release.

That part is the best I have ever encountered on a glock for lever release of a slide on a glock. I think I want one for my toy G35/34.

I do push over the top of the slide grasp with these glocks.

I have a question on your MPs......do you know if the MP has a smaller grip than the Gen 4 glock?

I personally think the 4th Generation Glock without any back strap installed is smaller, at least it feels that way to me, I've only fired an M&P 40 full size a couple of times.

SW CQB 45,
I don't have much experience with the Gen4 Glocks (yet) and have yet to see the measurements. My M&P40C with the small backstrap on it can be shot by people about half the size of our 21 year old recruits. I'll leave it at that. I will also say that a buddy has a Gen4 G17 and while the somewhat arched backstrap feels better than my G23 felt I much prefer the feel of the M&P for three reasons.

1) The M&P interchangable backstraps have a rubbery feel which helps keep them tacky when your hands are sweaty.

2) The M&P interchangable backstraps have palm swells available in the medium and large sizes which also help fill your hand.

3) The M&P interchangable backstraps have a tab at the top on the large size right underneath the tang and that feels nicer than just having the web of your hand hitting the polymer.

Of course some of my co-workers would argue that you can put a plastic grip sleeve on just about any pistol and add tackiness, finger grooves, palm swells, etc. Heck, we even went for a while putting on about 2" of bicycle innertube on the grips of pistols for recruits so that they would have something a little tackier to hold on to. The range staff started doing that back when we carried 4046's and continued through the SW-99's but pretty much didn't have a need to continue with that when we switched to the M&P's.

Thanks for the info.

I've carried the two following handguns as a GI and a Cop. Beretta 92FS and one variation of a GLOCK or another. The Beretta was when I was in the Army and in my career I started off with a Gen 2 GLOCK 17, went to a Gen 3 GLOCK 22, then a Gen 3 GLOCK 37, and back to a Gen 3 GLOCK 22.

My father was a S&W Wheelgun guy. He started off in 1975 and carried a Model 10, Model 64, then a Model 19, and a Model 66 in the end. He then switched to a Beretta 92SB and then was one of the first cops in South Florida to carry a GLOCK and start training other cops in carrying GLOCK.

I own a S&W 4506-1, 4006TSW, 59, M&P 45, and I love the 3rd Gen Smiths for the interesting history but in my opinion the best duty gun ever is GLOCK. I'm a big fan of the .40 S&W and the GLOCK platform.... nothing else is better then it.

I am glad that agencies aren't giving up on the 3rd Gen Smith... they are good guns and I 100% believe in allowing officers to carry what they want. I just want S&W to release the current WVSP 4566 guns to the general public....

HEAR THAT SMITH & WESSON!

I a GLOCK fanboy want a new 3rd Gen Semi-Auto from you guys!

S&W could sell a "boat load" of 3rd Generation 4506's and 4566's if they would just listen!

Are there any reccomended 3rd gen gunsmiths out there???

Yep! The best of the best!

BMCM now open for business