This has been a very interesting thread.

I’ve not read anything here that would tell me not to get a 645 over a 4506, should I find one that is. Have I missed anything?

I have a 559 and 659 that are totally reliable and I’d like a S&W 45 to go with them. Plus, I like the 2nd gen removable barrel bushings even though they probably are not really needed for accuracy. I’m not LEO like a lot of you guys, just a guy that likes to shoot targets with S&W autos.

The 645 makes for an excellent target pistol. Mine is as accurate.......if not more accurate, than my Colt Gold Cup.

Beautiful pistol the 645. Regards 18DAI

18DAI
I have been toying with selling my 645, but in reading thru this thread, and your last comment, I think I'll keep it.

I keep trying to whittle down my "collection" such as it is, but find it virtually impossible.

It's a disease I tell you.

S/F,

RAS

I have had a variety of third generation .45 ACP pistols and one S&W 1911. All have functioned perfectly and well. I would trust my life to any of them. One of my carry guns is a 4513TSW which is about as fine a carry gun in .45 ACP as I can imagine.

I bought my M645 from the Dept Armorer... it was his class gun at S&W school & had all the upgrades. He had gotten it approved & he smiled every time I qualified with 'his gun'. Easiest gun I ever qualified with, never bobbled. I aquired it January 1989. Part Time officers could sign out weapons (no one ever did) or supply their own.
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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

We are issued the Glock 19 as of todays date. However I was issued the glock 22 when I came on. Im a younger officer but have switched to the 4506 for duty carry. Just to let people know that the number of newer officers looking for a 4506 is getting bigger. Many people that I know have made the switch. Ive enjoyed the switch and wont go back to plastic again. My department is at times puzzled at how much more often newer officers are switching to an all metal gun verses the plastic wonder they fell is better for us to carry. 4506 is still alive and Smith and Wesson needs to realize they are losing money by not producing such a sought after gun.

I love my 4506, 4566 and 4516. I've used them all at one time or the other for work...from Patrol to Homicide Detective to Detective Sergeant. I can't think of better tools for an environment where fraility just is unacceptable. I know they only hold seven or eight rounds, but that has always been enough...in part as I'm a firm believer in the 14" Remington 870.

I received some very fine 1911s when I promoted and I carry them too. For precision work they do produce at a higher level the 4506 doesn't, but I know they need a bit more love in the maintenance department.

I believe in this day and age it is a different sort of person that uses a 4506 than say a Glock or M&P. It is a person who just wants to stand out a tiny bit and not conform to the masses....maybe the sort who polishes his duty leather (actually has duty leather), boots and wears a pressed shirt to roll call. I may be wrong, but I'd bet I'm not far off.

I wrote the post below several years ago, and although it references the 4516, I think it applies to all the steel S&Ws.


Why I like my 4516 - law enforcement perspective

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Reading the above posts made me sit down and think about why I like my 4516-1. I have come up with the following reasons:

1. It's different. In an agency of 3500 I'm the last holdout with a S&W 3rd gen pistol....I use a 4506/1006 for uniform and the 4516 for detective work. My religious backup is a 442. When I'm at the range or on the street I can see the younger deputies look at the stainless S&W steel monsters and wonder what they are. Afterall, there is a mysterious aspect to anything not Glock or 1911 in our agency. I like being different..I wear a full Class B uniform on patrol and a leather duty belt most of the time. My shirts and trousers are pressed and I still polish my boots with Parade Gloss and a cotton ball. In the modern days of polo shirts and external vest carriers, Glocks and plastic I probably don't fit in, but I'm OK with that. The type of guy who polishes his boots is in my mind they kind of guy who would carry a S&W 4516. They guys who want easy, no maintenance and don't want to pay attention to detail tend, in my experience, to wear a Glock, nylon duty gear and crumpled, unpressed uniforms. I guess our choice of hardware speaks to our inner discipline to an extent.

My first run in with a S&W 4516 and 4566 was in the hands of a US Marshal on an extradition flight. He appeared to me at the time to be the epitome of a professional law enforcement officer and he certainly looked like he knew how to use his hardware. I guess subconsciously I wanted to be like that and the 4516 fit the mold....it's good to have heros these days and role models.

2. The 4516 is reliable... Mine feeds empty cases from the magazine without fail. Try and get a Glock or Colt to do that.

3. Its comforting... I don't know really how to explain this but for those of you in law enforcement you've been in a situation where your sidearm has been out and you have complete confidence in knowing what you can do to remedy the issue, and if you need to do it, you know there won't be an issue from the hardware perspective. My 4516, and 4506, feel good in my hand, have a heft to them that lets me know they're there, and somehow inspire confidence that at least the hardware isn't something I have to worry about. Somehow, holding plastic doesn't bring about the same comforting feeling as heavy, stainless steel. When I carry my 4516, I know it'll work all the time, the round will go where I aim it, and it's a serious firearm.

Oh well, this is just one person's perspective. If you want, sit back in your chair and hold a Glock 22 in one hand and your 45XX/10XX in the other and ask yourself the following question: "What would Bill Jordan, Charles Askins, Melvin Purvis, etc., carry??" If you're wondering who these guys are you've probably already chosen the Glock.

I got my 4506 upon ETS from the Army in 1989. I shot tens of thousands of rds thu it. Tons of 45 lead SWC reloads that I did on a single stage press! That gun never let me down and would still be a go to although we have to use a 40 here. Still I got it since I was applying for several LE agencies and wanted a 45 but many didn't allow SA guns plus the S&W had an extra round.
The heft of it really absorbs recoil and adds to longevity of the gun. Mine is the square trigger guard but I have a round guard as well

I just acquired my 645 at the end of February. This has been a great read and thanks to those that have contributed to it.

Good to see an old thread still alive. I've never had any sort of problem with my 4506 I bought NIB back in 1990, IIRC. The 4516-1, ditto. The only 3rd Gen pistol that gave feeding problems for whatever the reason was was a 4566 Tactical. I changed recoil springs, mags and springs but no dice. I reluctantly sold it at some point since it was going to be a house pistol.

Another great read from a few years ago. It sure help me put the 4506 family back in perspective.


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Vietnam Veteran, 68-69

I have a 40 tactical up for trade if anyone is interested


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What a great (5 year old!!) thread! Thanks to 1/74SIS and all those who added to it then and more recently.

(St.Regis, if you're still out there, looks like we were co-workers at ACC in the mid-90s. I was West side patrol; initially swing shift, then days).

After a rookie year when I was issued & required to carry a 681 (not enough 4006s to go around), I started carrying a personally owned 4506-1 for the remainder of my time. Loved that gun and carried it on and off duty. Thankfully, I never needed to use it, but it was very reliable putting holes in paper.

After a career change and selling off my guns, I got the bug to reacquire some handguns. Picked up a used pre-rail 6+1 4513TSW, which has been great after changing out the recoil springs. It makes a great carry gun and shoots as well as the 4506.

I still enjoy a good revolver (and a G30s), but can't bring myself to sell the 4513TSW even though it was supposed to help replenish funds after buying a new to me 627.

My adventure in to the .45cal pistols may be a tiny bit off the beaten path. In order, I got mine like this:

1) non-IPSC Model 745. Originally shipped with fixed rear sight but some previous owner installed an adjustable sight that works well and isn't ugly.

2) PC 845 Limited, from the second run in 1998. This pistol is the finest single firearm that I own and I'd honestly say it may hold that distinction until I'm dead & gone from this life.

3) 4556TSW, since so many were hitting the used market. I really had no desire for one but the price was oh so right. I find it to be the homeliest S&W product I own (awful rail, awful billboard on the slide) and the obnoxious trigger play spring is gone and the trigger-click almost makes me want to place this gun out at 100 yards and go to work on it with a rifle. KIDDING, mostly. I need to take it apart and get a proper spring in there. The trigger click is obnoxious.

4) Model 745 IPSC with the DVC serial number prefix and the fixed rear sight. I didn't need a second one ("need" ?! what means this?!) but the price was right and man, I totally love my first 745 so it was an easy purchase.

I only have those four. I'm sure I would enjoy a 645 or a 4506 but I've simply got so many projects and extremely lovable Smith & Wesson handguns that I have to get off this train of constantly adding more.

Small ones just hold no interest to me. I completely understand why others like them, they just offer nothing I want at all. Even the 4566 to me, looks short and blocky. I would trade that 4566 for a 5-inch .45cal Smith & Wesson almost without a second thought.

I had a G30 SF at one time some years back that gave me as much or more trouble feeding than any auto I ever had. I never did find out what the problem was. Even after it was worked on it still was not totally reliable. It was accurate but reliable for a Glock it wasn't. I tried the -1 and -1- but it didn't seem to matter.

Nothing to date has proved the reliability the 4506 has given me. A lot of people bash Massaud Ayoob for various reasons but he was the one that turned me on to that pistol and I've been most grateful. Mas, if you see this, thanks a lot!!

For those of you cc'ing a 4506, what holster are you using?

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In the summer time an Aker flatsider pancake with thumbbreak. In the winter/cooler weather a Bianchi open top. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Bought a 645 when they first came out. From day one I had feed problems both with ball and hollow points.I sent it back to S&W. They apparently ground the ejected port and made a few ramps changes.It worked well for several weeks. I took to the department firing range.I started having issues with it staying in battery. After this experience, A friend of mine echo is a Hugh S&W fan bought it from me. Two weeks I ran into my friend, He was having the same battery issues.He sent it back to S&W. Saw him months later at headquarters he said he sold the gun,too many issues with the gun

Thanks for all the info. I learned a lot from these posts. Makes me think I should look into an older S&W (or a newer one?). I learned handgun shooting using S&W revolvers in the late 1940's, .38 and .32. Shot a few ex-military 1911 .45's during those years. Carried the 1911 and the S&W Combat Masterpiece, at times, during my 22 years in the USAF. Recently, my shooting buddy talked me into shooting .45ACP. Wound up buying a couple of SIG 1911's and three HK's in .45ACP, including the much praised HK Mark 23. I should experience other offerings.

When I was forced to transition to Glock .40 the department wouldn't allow us to purchase our 4506-1 , we had been able to buy the 4506 when they upgraded to -1. 10
years later I found it at a gun show for $300. Still had my badge engraved on the slide. Took all of 3 minutes to complete the sale. Went to another table picked up a spring kit and new night sights for $85.00 carried it as a CCW piece until April. It's now a night table spare. I've gone to an FNP .45 since I have been working personal protection I want as much ammo as possible 15 rounds of .45. Locally Agencies are going back to 9mm. I tried the ammo that they are carrying. FBI may love it but had problems getting it through a windshield. We've had 1 officer involved with the ammo & it did not penetrate well 4 shots center mass guy goes on trial next year.

When I came on in 1986 everyone was issued and/or had personally owned S&W revolvers, except for SWAT which had the 459. In 1988, S&W autos were authorized, and I bought a 645. Our first issue ammo was Remington 185 gr JHP... some lots had inconsistent rim dimensions and caused malfunctions. A couple years later the Federal 230 HS was issued - the original bullet shape was a truncated cone and did not feed consistently. Federal later changed the bullet to a roundnose HS and it fed fine.

I carried the 645 for 5 years, and the large size and big bore was intimidating and got a lot of respect from offenders arrested at gunpoint. The slide was relatively light like the 1911, and so if the recoil spring wasn't changed every 1500 rounds functioning became spotty. Looking for something more compact for concealed carry, I acquired a 4516. That gun never was reliable, all kinds of malfunctions. The armorers, gunsmiths and S&W couldn't make it work, even with three changes to the magazines. Finally the factory came out with the 4516-1, and they replaced my slide with the 4516-1 version. The -1 was subststantially heavier and thicker, which sort of negated the purpose of a compact pistol in the first place.

When the 4506 was introduced, S&W made the slides thicker and heavier than the 645. The 4506 was completely reliable, but it was a bigger and heavier gun than the 645, which was already at the edge of viabilty for concealed everyday work. When the factory came up with their version of the SIG decocker-only, they applied it to the 4506 line. The 4586 - 4" barrel decocker-only - became a favorite of mine and replaced the 645 for awhile. One I had which I wish I hadn't sold was the rare 4505 - all blued carbon steel.

With age and experience, my desire to pack heavy iron all day every day waned, and the SIG P220 replaced the 645 for me. The SIG was more accurate and lighter, although the recoil was heavier. But I also didn't care for the poor durabilty of some of its small stamped steel parts. When the .40 polyguns arrived and became authorized, I made the switch and never looked back: lighter, more rounds, more compact and plenty of ballistics for a pistol.

My experience with them was always good but in a casual way. I did carry a 5906 for a few months but thay is in no way a testament to reliability. I have asked cops who did carry 3rd gens and like every other handgun ever made I got mixed reviews on reliability. Extraction problems, ejection problems, dead triggers, poor accuracy. ...etc. It's simply the law of averages.

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Had an early 4516 it was OK; but felt like I was like carrying a brick vs. a 3913 or PPK......later got an 6 shot TSW 4516-? like it but pre-internet it was hard to find spare mags... and the three I had weren't enough for me.

I had a W. German 220 that had replaced my 1911s as a carry .45 in the mid 80s..........so when the Sig 245 was introduced I traded my 4516TSW for the compact Sig.

The Sig 220 and 245s have been my carry .45s since the early 90s....... but I do have a Smith 4566 and a half dozen or so mags. in the safe!!!!

Would love to have a FrankenSmith with a 4516 frame and 4566 upper.....

18DAI tracked me down when he found out that I have an LAPD SIS 4506 and asked that I post a picture. Enjoy. Edited to add......have no idea why the second picture turned upside down.

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After reading this thread for the ump-teenth time, I'm breaking out the 4566 for carry in the morn. Makes me wish I still had my 645 I got on my 21st birthday back in 1989. Thanks to all on here who contributed their stories and info!

Thank you nyeti!!

Beautiful 4506-1! Very nice of you to share it with us. Love the hat too! Best regards, 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Like a lot of you, when I graduated from the Academy in 1981, we had 1 choice, a Mdl 10 with 125 gr +P hollowpoints. Carried that(usually with a 60 as a BUG) till we switched to the 5606/6906 in 92 or so. I was a proponent of the 4506 but was informed it was "too much gun". Still have my 10, the 5606 and 6906 as well as a 5903 with Bomars and a trigger job from my PPC days. Used both the 10 and the 5906 for SWAT, K9 and range duties for 28 years before I hung it up.

As soon as I saw one, I purchased a 4506, and like a few of you said it feeds and shoots everything! It ran much better, and shot better than the 1911s I had prior to that, and even the one I traded for it. So does the 4566 that joined it when I got back from the sandbox! About 3 years ago I got a 4516-1 and so far it has been as reliable as it's bigger brothers, running everything from FMJ to HSTs and lead target loads. While I will probably always be a Kframe guy, the 3rd Gens are neck and neck for popularity with me.

BTT. Thought some of the new members and new 4506 owners might enjoy reading this thread.

Special thanks again to nyeti for sharing the above pics of the real deal 4506-1 used by an SIS member. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

..........

..........

Duty carry of 4566 and 4563 - flawless!!!

Wow can not believe how old this thread is and I've never noticed it before.

Away here it goes.

4506. Purchased new shortly after the North Hollywood shootout. An early round trigger guard model.
Totally 100% reliable. I tried the Hogue rubber grips for some time but eventually went to grip tape. To me the stock grip is too narrow but the Hogues, the only authorized nonfactory grip, is way too fat. To the people with machining issues, We had a batch of 4506s come into our Department store, shortly after I got mine and probably a special bulk order, that obviously had been made on overtime on a Saturday. You could easily see waviness in the slides. To Smith's credit they did everything to make those guns run right.

5904. A very early square trigger guard model. This gun never was 100% I bought it shortly after I turned 21 and was processing with the Orange County, CA, Sheriff's Department. They issued revolvers but let guys buy their own auto, Smith, Sig, or Beretta. Right off the bat I had to send it back because the rear sight, the bulky winged adjustable one, was not centered on the slide. Next the mag catch broke and finally I've had to have the extractor replaced 3 times in 9-10K rounds.

3913. Great and easy to carry. I've seen guys shot lights out with them but nine never grouped well. It's a 3 inch at 15 yard gun at best in my hands and I'm a DX. On the plus its always been 100% reliable.

As for the LAPD allowing guys who are issued Glocks to go to a 3rd Gen gun. Yes we do but the guns, especially 4506s, are had to find and expensive when you can find them. Mags are really expensive and holsters are few and far between. While I don't carry mine any more I'll never part with it. I carried it for years when I walked footbeat patrol in Watts and it's got a few stories to tell.

Tim Thurner (TT Gunleather); makes awesome leather holsters for 3rd Gens. His are as good as they come, and at half the price (and a fourth the wait time) as the other “premier” holster makers.

That first link takes you to Master's Holsters Horizontal Shoulder Holster | Up to 24% Off w/ Free S&H I didn't see any holsters for 3rd Gen S&W pistols.

I normally don’t resurrect dormant threads, but this one is a doozy. I can’t believe I missed it originally and during its previous resurrections. I only found it today by doing a tag search.

It is mentioned almost in passing that 645s and 4506s will fit in holsters meant for the Sig P220. Say what? I carried my trusty 220 in a Galco shoulder holster for years. I gave the 220 to my son when I retired but he’s a lefty so he had no use for the leather.

I rooted around and found it somehow. And, yep, the 645 I got a couple weeks ago fits great, though the business end sticks out a little farther than the Sig did. The mags fit the pouches, too.

I should probably pop for a new harness, since the four points of it are attached to the holster and mag pouch with: 1- Superglue, 2 - a piece of leather shoelace, 3 - a plastic flex cuff, cut short, and 4 - nothing but optimism.

Seems like a good cold-weather felon repellant set up to me.

Goes to show there can be gold in these old threads.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Very nice rig! If you have access to an old school shoe cobbler, those guys can make repairs to gun leather too.

I am fortunate to have had one locally while I was still on the job. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Wow old thread...... my last input was 2016

I've got an old Galco "Miami Vice" set up for single stack..... winter walks it works well with my Sig 245 or 220 and my Smith 4566..... all with 2 extra mags..... for the 245 spare mags are 8rd with Xgrips adaptors. Must admit that I tend to favor the alloy frame Sigs to the all Steel 4566 for a walk in the park!

It also works well with my Beretta 92 Compact Type-M single stack.


As they all have exposed hammers they are nice and secure with the thumb-break.

I've got a second one set up for double stack mags..... generally for my Beretta 92s either of the short (4.2")slide Compact or Centurion. IIRC it's a bit loose with a 3rd gen gun like the 5906 or 915.
Both were picked up "un- used" in the 90s at about $.25 on the dollar for a new one at the time.

Many moons ago I had a brand-new 645. It's the pistol that started my love of S&W semi-autos and of .45s.

HOWEVER...

The external machining on that pistol was horrible. When looking straight down the slide you could see that the shoulder cuts that ran the length of the slide were uneven between the left and right sides and not a constant depth, almost as if the work piece was placed slightly to the left of center and slightly crooked on the milling machine. It shot wonderfully but was "uncomfortable" to look at for a kid who spent some time recently in a machine shop while in school.

I contact S&W and they promised to make things right, but I ended up trading it in on a brand-new 4506 that I still have today. And the machining on that pistol is perfect!

Revival of a good old thread - and I must've missed it before.
My department's first auto (~1989-90) was the S&W M1076. We had good service from it - it was adopted before the .40 ever came out.
Ammo was the basic, usually Federal 10mm 180 gr JHP LITE.
Results of OIS was generally quite good.

Fast forward about 9-10 years and the 1076 was no longer being made. S&W would make up 'batches' of them up for incoming academies, usually 25-40 at a time, but a premium was being charged. Plus, 10mm ammo was getting much more expensive.

That lead to the next S&W auto - the CS45 for plainclothes/Detectives and the M4566 for uniform.
Over time, I had both.
I started with the CS45 and shot it well, even though it was not really all that comfortable and was sure ugly.

Near the end of my career I returned to uniform and the CS45 looked goofy in uniform gear. Knowing I'd be given my duty weapon at upcoming retirement, I switched to the 4566. These guns ran 100%, and would even feed empty/fired cases.
Duty load for all has been the Speer 230 gr GDHP. It has done very well.

With the ever-increasing load on officer's duty belts, Tasers, OC, etc, the 4566 became labeled 'the boat anchor' by young guys pining for a Glock.

The last few months before I retired, I helped assist in T&E of proposed new duty pistols and after I left, the S&W M&P .45 FS won out.

I was given my 4566, but it mostly lives in the safe, along with the 1076.
I just always find something else to shoot it seems.

Our 4566 had the slide-mounted decocking lever, but it was ONLY that - a decocker. It did not function as a safety, as the previous 1076 only had decockers (frame mounted) - and they didn't wanna confuse anyone.
Thought that was a good move.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

I might be a fan of the steel .45 automatics.



Model 645



Model 745



Model 4506-1



Model 4566



Model 4566TSW



Model 4566TSW

Well all I can say is wow. That was a great read covering almost ten years. A lot of great information and I must say thanks to all that contributed to it. Now I have to go out and find myself a .45 third gen.

My 45's are my favorites . 645, 745 , 845 and 945's I like them all . I have to include my Recon45 also . Among others i have 457's , CS45 , 4586 , 4536 , 4566TSW and some others . One can't have too many 45's . Here's a couple of them .

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Just re-reading this thread. I dearly miss Leiden and 18DAI talking about their lives of service. Leiden got my sold on a 4516 many years ago (still have it) and 18DAI was one of the folks who helped me out with my Recon 45. If you want to read some good stuff, and love S&W .45 pistols, go back and read these guys’ posts over the years. Hard to beat

I too have enjoyed reading through this again as I’m a big fan of the large frame steel S&W 45’s. Bought a 645 when first available, even before Sonny Crockett . Regrettably let that one go, but replaced it a few years ago. Still waiting for my first malfunction with a 645…hasn’t happened yet.

With all the great info in this thread I was surprised at no mention of the 4546. I know they’re a bit of a rare bird and what little I know about them I learned on this forum. In my LGS in among the black plastic I saw the first 4546 I’d ever laid eyes on in the case. I wasn’t that interested, but after reading a bit about them, and seeing it sitting there for a few months, I made an offer and it was accepted. I really didn’t expect to keep it but thought it might make good trade material. No box, but was in great condition. Took it straight to the ranch to see how it worked. Only problem was I only brought one box of ammo. It was a lot of fun and amazingly, to me anyway, extremely easy to hit with. I was able to “ding steel” consistently at targets as far as 75 yards out. Later took it to my buddy’s house to show it off. At his home range we were able to ring targets out to 100 yards. He was so impressed he told me I’d be crazy to get rid of it. So far it’s still mine.

Again thanks for all the info here. I too like the real world stories. Some have commented on wanting these big autos back in production but I doubt we’ll see it. Plastic is way cheaper and unfortunately more popular I’m afraid.

Dan

Any one use a 4513TSW?

4513TSW are Aluminum Frames