Hey all!

So on Friday I "bought" my BG380 (have to wait 5 days to pick it up in WA State) for conceal/carry.

However, since then, my gun-crazy uncle has been swearing up and down that I made a TERRIBLE choice, and that I'd have been better served with a Kahr PM9 or some other pocketable 9mm, that the .380 is a terrible round etc.

I'm not sure what to do now. The Kahr does look nice, but also costs a LOT more, isn't as ergonomic or light etc. I just don't know, gah!!!

The choice you made was for YOU, no one else. Get the gun, shoot it, enjoy it. Many here have them and love em' My 2 pennies

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Sure you did

Sure this is true. But I don't want to get caught in a situation where I need something more than a .380, and none of us have the luxury of having perpetrators we can practice on!!

How can you be remorseful about a gun you haven't even picked up or shot yet?

Because most (none?) of us here have any idea how a .380 will do in a life/death situation.

But from reading, it looks pretty dire vs a 9mm.

This gun is going to be 99% exclusively a CCW pistol (i.e. carried 99% of the time). So for that 1% target practice, I'm sure it will be great! But that's not my concern!

On the other hand, the Kahr PM9 with a loaded magazine weighs considerably more than a BG380, and I'm unlikely to carry it because of this.

So really, I have no idea what I would be best off with! No gun or a .380!

My uncle says he'd rather have a knife than a .380.

Your uncle is wrong, he would be better served with a Louiseville Slugger than a knife. That would be my choice over the puny .380. Just my 2 cents.

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Morality >religion

Haha, you made me seriously giggle.

An old axiom is " The gun you have with you is the best to have at a fight." If it's too big, bulky, whatever, it does you no good. The one in your pocket is better than the one in your car.

Absolutely, and I think paired with some Remington Golden Saber 102gr, I'll be... golden.

There is some really good .380 personal defense ammo available these days. Your uncle doesn't know what he is talking about.

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

What is your preference for defensive .380 ammo?

Also...( I forgot to add !) some European police carried 32 autos for decades. The NYPD issued or allowed 32 longs for plain clothes and females way back when. It's SHOT PLACEMENT, not caliber. Would you rather be hit center mass with a .22, or "winged" with a .45? My coupla denaro

.380 load (Calling Erich)

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Sure you did

Thanks for the link. So many differing opinions. I wish there were a RIGHT answer!

Don't dispair. The first rule of a gun fight is have a gun. Your choice was for you and no one else. A larger heaver gun will be left either in the car or at home after the newness wears off. My suggestion is to buy plenty of ammo and practice, practice, practice. I agree w/those who recommend going with FMJ or ball ammo in this caliber for SD.

That said I carry a small frame .38 loaded w/+P 158 gr. or Federal Nyclad 125 gr. standard pressure for my older guns. The .38 offers a bit more punch, but recognize that no handgun will always drop a bad guy w/one shot.

While the gun forum commando's demand the largest caliber possible for man killin', the fact of the matter is that more people are killed in the US with small caliber rounds than anything else. A .380 in the pocket ALWAYS beats a .45acp sitting in your gun safe.

Thanks for the info. Now I just have to buy a million different types of ammo and hope I can figure out which is best in the .380...

How can anybody feel anyless than amply armed with a reliable weapon in hopefully trained hands with 6-8 projectiles moving at or around a 1000 fps,,,bring your knife and baseball bat.....just sayin.!!!!

Good to know..! It seems that people will always argue what's best. I'll get comfortable enough with my 380 that I'll be a lot more confident! Practice, practice, practice..

I just have to wait some more for my armory to arrive! The wait is more painful than a .380 round!

William, don't take this as criticism, but what you wrote above is a common thread I see when people pick a defensive gun. The reality is quite the opposite. If you carry that gun the majority of the time, then the majority of your range time should be spent on it as well. No gun will be adequate in a defensive situation if you don't train with it and can't shoot it effectively.

As far as you caliber concerns; the .380 is at the bottom end of what is acceptable for SD. However, for the majority of situations CCW'er might find himself in its enough to allow him to disengaged and escape his attacker.


Of course all the above is JMO, so take it for what you paid for it.

I don't take any offense. What I mean is that 1% of target practice with the BG380 will be a LOT of time at the range for sure on a regular basis (i.e. every time I go, this will be fired as well as my other guns), but nowhere near as much as how much time I spend NOT at the range just carrying it on my person, if that makes sense.

Of course I absolutely need to shoot the heck out of the .380 to get comfortable with it, as ANYONE should!

Hi William, I too have a BG380 and I feel protected with it using .380 ammo. There are a lot of excellent bullet choices to pick from. Ask your gun dealer for suggestions when you pick up your gun. I know of two men shot and killed by the .380. One died after being shot 3 times the second man was shot once. One man I knew died from a single shot from a.22. I certainly would not want to be shot with a .380 as it could kill you.Bullet placement is very important.I carry my BG380 in my pants pocket and no one knows. Yes William I would recommend the BG380 over the knife any day.Yoy can out run a knife but not a bullet. Good luck and practice shooting it. Bob

Thanks for the pep talk, Bob. I'm really not sure what bullets to use. Some people say hollowpoints aren't worth it because of lack of speed/penetration to do their job, and say to use FMJs. I have no idea.

I'll probably just get some Hydra-Shok rounds or some Golden Sabers for defense.

Speer Gold Dot .380 are an outstanding choice to consider. They are known to be reliable expanders. I have been carrying them for many years in a 380 CC weapon. Gold dots in 9mm and larger calibers are used by many law enforcement agencies across the country based on this reputation, the most well known being the NYPD.

I believe there is a well known statistic that more than half of all self defense use of pistols occur at 5 feet or less and another 1/3 occur at 10 feet or less. This means your gun is most likely to be an extension of your fist if, god forbid, you ever have to use it. Firing 7 gold dot HPs from your 380 to an attackers face if he is physically on you or 7 to center of mass at more than 5 feet away will distract him pretty effectively as you make your escape from the situation.

Any farther away than that and I would do my best to run away and evade. Of course if I am with family and kids I have to stick around and defend them but if alone, run. I do HIIT (sprint/jog/sprint/jog) training 4 times a week for general health reasons but it has the added benefit to be a self defense weapon. That is one thing that is often overlooked by shooters, your ability to sprint really well. If you have no other health issues like chronic joint injuries, cardiovascular disease, etc, there is no reason not to integrate weight lifting and wind sprints/running/jogging exercises into your overall self defense toolkit.

Enjoy your 380 and let us know how it shoots. I have been carrying a Bersa 380 for years but I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of it. Super accurate out to 15 yards but some warranty issues a few times in the last 3 years. Hoping the model you have will be the one.

I have no problem with the .380 as a defensive cartridge! You just have to recognize it's limitations and make the best of it. That is train yourself to shoot for the upper chest, neck, and head! I don't want to come off as gruesome but that's gunfighting.
And just to let you know I am known to frequently pack a Makarov PM in the summer months (even though Illinois doesn't have a CCW, I still carry on my property), yes, that funny little Russian pistol with the odd-ball cartridge! And love it as it's very accurate!
So practice making mulitiple shots at various vital areas, think 3 rounds here 3 rounds there! And ball can work if applied correctly! Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

Agreed on the point about 380 shot placement. When I shoot my Bersa at the range, I practice only head shots. Most blowback pistols are incredibly accurate and the Bersa trigger is plenty light to get tight groups even with rapid fire when doing head shots out to 15 feet.

Good info, thanks people!

Do you think it's a good idea to have a magazine with alternating ammo types, such as hollow point, FMJ, hollow point, FMJ etc?

WilliamG:

I've not shot the BG.... I do have a PPK/S (circa 1968) and a P3AT, though. My problem with the .380 is that I hate to shoot either of them. It's not that I can't - my EDC is one of two Officer's-sized 1911's, or around the house in with an M&P40C - but they are just way too uncomfortable to shoot much. (And, I think the P3AT is too flimsy to beat on, too!) End result is that I tend to not shoot either of the .380's.... I'm afraid that many others have the same problem.

It's not so much the recoil - these two guns just HURT....

I can handle the M&P40C or the 1911's about as well as anybody else could (barring the real specialists ), but those .380's....

Which is one reason I tend to recommend something like the M&P unless you're into deep concealment....

The BG is really in the same general size range as the M&P anyway, and either the 9mm or .40S&W version ought to be a better stopper if the need occurs. If you're really into a mini-gun, though, the P3AT and similar .380's are a good choice, but I don't know anybody who finds 'em comfortable.

Just IMHO, of course....

(I'm also the guy who traded a PPS40 for an M&P40C. The former was also far too uncomfortable to shoot - in it's case, the trigger was too tiny, and my pudgy fingers would wrap around it and get pinched. I can shoot the M&P all day by comparison....)

Regards,

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Stu.

I checked out a BG380 at my favorite toy store this weekend. The trigger pull was stout and stacked up at the end of the travel.

We have a rule in our house - if my wife can't shoot it I don't buy it. The trigger was too much for her so I bought a Taurus TCP instead. When I took it to the range I was pleasantly surprised that it shot as well as it did.

I did like that laser on the BG380. Very nicely done, now they need to do something about the trigger.

I didn't mind the trigger. I like that you won't activate it by mistake in your pocket. Just takes getting used to I'd imagine.

My wife has to be able to handle it too. She does not have the strongest hands. So it flunks rule #1 at my house.

Since it flunks rule #1 it also flunks rule #2. No Safe Queens, everyone must practice with every gun. I am not a fanatic about it, I have an M432PD that probably has no more than a couple of hundred rounds through it since I bought it five or six years ago. But, it does get shot occasionally.

It is my favorite carry gun and groups inside of six inches at 25 yards. Not bad for a 1 7/8" barrel!

I just traded my Kahr CW45 in on a Kimber .45.
The Kahr was unreliable. It would fail in several different ways. Reliability counts for alot.

I too have a 380 Bg in addition to my S&W 642, Beretta 92 and Colt .45 Defender all with Crimson Trace Grips. I look at these handguns as tools and use them as such. The 380 Bg fits a niche for CCW that the others come close to, still getting use to the fine motor skill to activate the laser, but I will get use to that in time. I also carry 2 extra 380 mags. and practice point blank out to 50' shooting and mag changing drills as this is my newest CCW auto. My last was a Walther PPKS, and I can tell you already from a few range fires that I like the S&W better. I haven't settled in on a particular round yet and continue to experiment with whats out there.

Best of luck with your 380, no regrets with mine.

SF180A

If your wife needs to be able to fire the BG380, and she can't, then the gun is more than useless. Absolutely agreed.

I'm getting more excited to get mine and practice with it.

Maybe. The problem here might be in the aftermath of the shooting, where the lawyer tries to say you loaded the magazine with "deadly mushrooming hollowpoints AND pointy overpenetrating ball ammunition!" thats a bit of a overdramatization but it could happen.
My advice, find a load your guns happy with (feeding, firing, ejecting,etc.) and use that. A lot if guys on here prefer flat point ball (I think Winchester loads it) simply because it has a bit more slap than round nose stuff. Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

I had my doubts about the BG380. I have owned and carried most every gun available,but never a 380. I must say I am impressed with the S&W 380. It shoots good, and is so easy to carry. I now carry it most everywhere it is legal. I even carry it around the house. I never did that much with other guns as they are bigger and heavier. As for the 380 round being puny, I would not want to be shot anywhere with one. The main thing with carrying a gun, is to carry the gun and not leave it home. The BG 380 is one gun you will carry and not really notice you have it. It is a good choice for carry.

Yes, I agree completely. The BG380 is a gun I would actually carry!

Alternating ammo types is a bad idea in a self defense weapon because different types shoot to different points. Pick the ammo you are most comfortable with and practice so you know where those rounds are going. With a 380 shot placement is about all you have going for you but, it can be enough.

Thanks.

Have you ever heard !!
Dont Bring a knife to a gun fight??
Or how about this one?? One in your Hand/pocket is better than the one in the safe at home!
Carry what you r comfortable with !

In years past the 380 wasn't popular and it was pretty rare to encounter a shooting where the 380 was used. With the advent of the new crop of 380's that has changed. I live in a high crime area and shootings here are not unusual. Reports from people in the know here on the performance of the 380 in actual use have surprised me. The 380 seems to be doing a lot better than you think it would.

Here's my take on it, FWIW, first off, what are the real life chances of you being accosted by some bad guy an your daily routine...if you are like most of the people in the US, it's pretty slim. Now if you are armed, with a handgun you are familiar with and shoot reasonably well at social interaction distances your BG may suffice long enough for you to gain cover, it may not. That said, most of us who carry do not go around in our daily routine looking to shoot someone. We stay alert, aware of the surroundings and look to avoid unpleasant situations. For me personally, I am not willing to put myself in harm's way if I can avoid it. Awareness and avoidance are key here.
I live in an area (semi rural small community in NNY, on the Canadien border) where I am not overly concerned about badguys, zombies etc, but the mile of ice I'm looking at is the only border fence that acts as a deterrent to illegals, and to me that is a more worrisome threat. Face to face confrontations with American criminals is a very rare occurrence around here, and as yet I know of NO face to face with illegals.
Armed criminals around here generally use a stick, a bat and sometimes a knife, and that is about a one in five thousand chance.
So, to sum up, practice with your new pistol, become proficient with it, and if you feel the need carry it in your pocket, it will work as intended when needed...if you are prepared.

Boox

Lots of good advice [and some goofy] given. I have several rules for myself in concealed carry. Don't leave home without a gun. Choose a holster system that will hold the gun firmly against your body while allowing for access. Practice regularly with your carry gun. Did I say don't leave home without a gun? On which gun to get, that is a personal choice. Warm weather, my choice is the Ruger SR9c. Compact and full power 9mm with very controllable recoil. In cooler weather where concealment is easier I carry the Sigma SW40VE. What's not to like about 14 rounds of 40 cal in a DAO striker fired weapon? My last advice to you is to never leave the house without a gun.

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SW40VE Sigma
Ruger SR9c

my wife's carry is a .380 loaded with 88gr. JHP and i know i would'nt want to get hit with one let alone eight . it's not a .45 but your BG380 will protect you if you know how to use it.

Let me chime in here if I may. First the .380 is not a bad round. it does what it is designed for to get the bad guys off you. I carry a bersa .380 loaded with cor-bon power ball 95 gr JHP weather permiting and I do not under any circumstances feel "out gunned". Make sure you practice with what ever you gonna use as a defensive round and do it often. Its all about shot placement.

If you don't practice and become proficient it does not matter what caliber you have. Also if you would have bought a 9mm, there are those that would say you need at least a 40 cal. and on and on and on. Get the 380 and practice. If you find you do not like the gun sell it and get another. It can be an expensive lesson but what is your life worth?

Let me preface this by saying I've been in a few situations where possession of a firearm kept me from being the victim of a crime. Fortunately I've never had to shoot anyone because with one exception the discovery that I was armed caused them to break off the attack quickly.

Based on my limited experience no matter what your carrying in a self defense situation you will wish you had something larger. The key is to be carrying. In one incident I was carrying a 1911A1 and believe me while I have utmost confidence in that firearm and the 45 ACP, at the time I wished I had my shotgun instead.

From one who considers handguns as another tool to get the job done. I have tried my very best to stay neutral on what is the best or flavor of the month shooter is. However growing up around 1911s, later the M9s and yes even large S&W revolvers and semi-autos, I managed to always have a 1911 nearby if not carried somewhere on my person, along with my 642 BUG.

Now I am smiling as I write this response as I sit here with my new 380 BG safely carried in my inner right cargo pocket, I have already adjusted to its light weight compact size and no disrespect to my old trusted 1911, the 380 has moved up to my everyday carry. But for the days I find myself in need for more power, my old 1911 friend and my proven 38 will be well within arms reach.

SF180A

I just posted this in another thread, it's great information from the FBI. Their study says the number one consideration is to have a bullet that will penetrate a body at least 12". After that, the bigger bullet always wins.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf


Excerpt:

Goddard amply proves the fallacy of "knock-down power" by calculating the heights (and
resultant velocities) from which a one pound weight and a ten pound weight must be dropped to equal the
momentum of 9mm and .45ACP projectiles at muzzle velocities, respectively. The results are revealing.
In order to equal the impact of a 9mm bullet at its muzzle velocity, a one pound weight must be dropped
from a height of 5.96 feet, achieving a velocity of 19.6 fps. To equal the impact of a .45ACP bullet, the
one pound weight needs a velocity of 27.1 fps and must be dropped from a height of 11.4 feet.


And the final recommendation after 16 pages:

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock"
of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The
bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid
bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the
1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and
reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound
by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs
from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the
bigger bullet.