Who watched Alaska State Troopers Tuesday night? Alaska State Troopers were competing against the RCMP in a shooting contest. AST were using Glocks and the RCMP were using 3rd Gen S&Ws.Guess who won! RCMP!!!!!!!!

That's funny and ironic since the Alaska State Troopers were carrying 4006's before switching to glocks.

Hate to say this but it is not the gun that wins, it is the shooter.

An expert shooter can use a lousy gun and do well.

A poor marksman cannot use the best of guns to shoot well.

That said, I HATE Glocks. While owning a few, I very rarely shoot them. It has been years since I can remember shooting any gun other than a S&W.

I recently posted an account of my brief infatuation with the Glock (A Love Story). It was the only one I've ever had, and while I know that nowadays they're highly regarded, I doubt I'll ever buy another. I realize the polymer framed pistol is here to stay, and I do own a handful, but there're generally not treasures, just tools.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I agree that it's the shooter.I just find it very interesting that what seems to be a "Glock" world in LEO field you still have very respected and large police agencies still using a well designed weapon,such as the 3rd Gen S&W.

What S&W model does the RCMP use?

A friend is retired from AST. These matches go back to the 80s at least. At one time it was AST with model 66s against Browning high powers. These matches werer a high point between the AST and the Yukon based Mounties.

The fact is Glock bought their way into law enforcement. I know one man that basically committed a crime as an officer. His job was to decide which sidearm was best for the officers. He went with Glock. They sold the 500 plus guns to the town, gave a $300 trade in allowance for the S&W model 686 and sold the Glocks for $400 so the town got the guns for $100 each. What town would not have took that deal? But they paid the officer that made the decision $50 per gun as incentive. He immediately retires and goes to another dept with a different city in the area, where he promptly made another deal with Glock for the officers there. The officer would have likely been charged with malfeaence had he not been found to be dying from a serious disease and was only on the new dept for three months before he passed away.

Glock was giving away guns to get their foot in the door. I cannot argue with their business methods because they worked. HOWEVER, many depts are getting away from Glock.

It is the shooter not the gun most definately.I was told by a few officers in NYPD that they have a choice of a Glock,S+W, or Sig Sauer.When it comes to purchase price the dept gives the officer 400 dollars.Now the Glock cost 400 dollars so guess what the majority of officers bought?When I made my choice to get the CS9 besides it fitting my hand the best,I liked the fact that part of the takedown proceedure does not involve PULLING THE TRIGGER.I also liked the magazine disconnect safety. JMHO.....Mike

More than one officer had their life saved by a magazine disconnect safety. During training, it was taught to drop the mag if one was wrestling for their gun. Even without the mag safety, it only allowed a person a single shot.

That is one feature I wish my S&W 1911 had.

I have fired many different Glock pistols at our club and don't like them very much at all. They always seem to jump back and nail me on the back of my trigger finger every time I fire one. It hurts which I do not like at all. Our city police use the glock in a 40 cal and many of the officers hate them as well. The last police shooting here 19 rounds which struck several houses,a coupla garages and a few private windows. The suspect just kept running but was finally caught by the dogs. The police officer was behind a desk for about a year after that and had to go back for some shooting training again.Give me a Smith anyday before one of those pieces of playtoy junk.

A gun maker paying a bribe? I'm appalled!

Smith & Wesson official arrested in bribery sting - Boston.com
Smith & Wesson official arrested in bribery sting
22 are accused in arms-sale scheme

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A real sucker for the J-frames

Good point.
I think Apple did the same thing giving Macintosh computers to schools in the 80's. Of course in the "business world" the Mac programming taught was next to useless. (Much more homogenization now though.)

Glad this was mentioned, I couldn't figure out why my Mod. 3566s wouldn't fire without the mags in...lol...
Good idea and a good thing, especially for LEOs, in my opinion...
Have a good one...XPman...

The problem with the S&W deal was it was with a foreign country. Had it been with a local department, giving a rebate is legal. Any officer taking a kickback, rebate or bribe is violating the law.

A simple fact is offering enticements to get a company to go with a certain product is common. Look at the drug companies that pay for drs lunches, give out advertising pens and some nice gifts for those in a position to prescribe their medications. The Feds passed a law a couple yrs ago that limits what drug companies can do in the way or kickbacks. As far as I know, there is no laws about gun sales to volume buyers.

Probably due in part to innate conservatism in a large federal agency, plus the cost of replacement as the RCMP have something like 17,000 on hand. Besides, I read somewhere recently (posted by an RCMP officer) that they only switched from the .38 Special Model 10 in 1996 (!!) so the 5946s still have a lot of life in them. Most of the other LE agencies in Canada are using Glock 22's though, with a few 9mm Sigs. and a Beretta 92 or two.

Stuart

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"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)

I do believe the 5946 is still on the approved list for NYPD recruits as well.
It's nice to know these old warhorses can run with the poly guns! Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

^ Yep, for a while now the choice has been between a S&W 5946, DAO Sig P226, or Glock 19 with a modified heavier trigger pull.

I was recently working with some detectives from Queens, and I was surprised to notice that most of them carried the 5946. Out of maybe a dozen detectives and PO's, I saw one Glock, one Sig, and all the rest were that unmistakable stainless steel.

The Troopers should have stuck with these babies.

Nice pistol there RobG5589.

Well i dont know about bribes, even though that sounds like something that would happen were im from. Plastic is king around here, except with the Highway Patrol. But losing money on the firearms you offer to get government contracts, is common it seems in the Firearm business. Iv heard it said that Fabrique Nationale loses money on there rifles and carbines in government contracts, they make there money off of servicing and replacing the rifles and carbines. But i dont think they sell there rifles and carbines for no $100 to get government contracts no matter how big they are.

If bribes have been taken to get a firearm accepted for a contract, and they probably have, then that is wrong and illegal. Regardless of who the manufacturer is. There is also a question of how much money is a firearms manufacturer willing to lose on a firearm just to get it accepted for a contract.

For me the crying shame is back in the day there where all kinds of different pistols out there in use with the different agencies. Semis, Revolvers, steel, alloy, polymer, S&W, Sig, Beretta, Glock, Ruger, colt and so on, and now it just seems like if it is not semi, made out of polymer, manufacturered by Glock. Then it does not get accepted. Oh well thats life im done whining now.

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Boomer Sooner

You're absolutely correct.

When our (New Jersey State Police) original H&K P7M8 pistols were reaching the end of their service life, Glock was going to swap TWO of their pistols (a G19 and a G26) PLUS new leather for each P7M8 turned in (approximately 4000 pistols at the time).

Ultimately, the NJSP replaced the H&Ks with SIG P228 pistols.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

That's good to hear,that they did not bow down to Glocks antics!

Getting back to the original thread tpoic-Mounties vs AK troopers-I go with the Mounties-they have wayyyyyyyyyyy cooler uniforms.

And Dudley Doright of the Alaskan State troopers just doesn't sound right.

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Forum consigliere

The RCMP at certain posts had MP-5 in cars since 1992 when I worked with them. They were altered to semi only, but we had MP-5's or 870's along with S&W model 10's with 5 inch light barrels.

Gaston Glock's cost coming out of the factory is something like $75 per gun...it's the middle-man mark-up that drives their prices (pretty much like every other product out there!) Not condoning their business practices...but they make enough $$ off the civilian market that they can 'afford' to make deals with LEA's...business pure and simple! I'm not standing up for Glock specifically (or any other gun manufacturer for that matter) but with the rising cost of running a law enforcement department, getting a gun for $100 (or $400) is a way to save $$ in the face of rising costs! I'm not sure...but I think Glock currently has something like 65% of the LE market?

The small town I live in (pop. 15K) allows their officer's to chose a weapon from an approved list with a maximum $$ value! Sig Sauer P-220's are popular as our County Sheriff's department issues those!

Any one taking kick-backs though...now that's a different story all together!

That all being said, and me being a Glock owner, I am currently awaiting the arrival of a 4513TSW and can't wait to try it out! If all is as I've been told and have read about...it may become my new EDC!

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Amishman44