Riddle me this: Why would I -- a self-proclaimed n00b -- be more accurate with a rented SW1911 than I am with my own personal 4567 pistol?

Two weeks ago, after much "first semi-auto" deliberation, I purchased a used 4567 at a local gun shop. In all aspects of which I'm aware, the pistol is perfect for me and my "man hands". It's big 'n heavy enough, yet concealable, and a well proven HD/SD tool.

But if you've seen my other posts, I still covet The One That Got Away. My first runner-up was a Springfield 1911, and the only reason I didn't get it was because, in my mind, I saw an advantage of DA over SA for self defense. Now, I've got a SW1911 Pro at the top of my birthday/Christmas list, and today I decided to rent a S&W SW1911 .45 at the range.

To my absolute amazement I was crazy accurate with the larger, heavier SW1911 pistol. At one point, I lost track of my shots on the target because three of them went through the same hole at 30 ft. My very first shot with the 4567 was a bulls eye, but every shot after that has been low and to the right; caused by the classic over-compensation flinch reaction that I've been told many n00bs have. I planned on hitting the range ever week 'til I mastered my 4567 enough to get back to dead center, but my question is:

Why am I so much more accurate with the SW1911 than I am with my own personal 4567? Did I make a mistake by purchasing the 4567 as my first pistol? Should I look to trade it in for my coveted SW1911 Pro (178011), or just work on my proficiency with the 4567?

Any and all comments and opinions welcome & appreciated.

- Dave

How where you shooting both guns? Off a rest/offhand? Single action? same range? Same ammo? Were you tired or more focused one of the days? did you shoot side by side? How many different brands have you tried in the 4567? Since you are a self described "n00b" what level of accuracy are you expecting/want? If you want 1 hole at 50 yds you prob need a Les Baer, Match ammo and lots of practice! If you want 2-3" groups on a silhouette @ 7 yds, you can take the 4567, ball, and practice! Every day, every thing we do is a learning experience, Mistake-> NO. Your requirements/needs may change, enjoy the ride. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

It's easier to be more accurate with a SA trigger as the pull is shorter and lighter. Also, the heavier gun will absorb recoil more readily. Why as the 1911 been so popular for over 100 years? It's easy to shoot well with it.

Also:

Thank you both for the quick replies.

I was using the thumbs forward full-coverage grip on both guns. Both were shot using the same ammo at the same range, swapping repeatedly between pistols all within an hour session.
I have no specific accuracy goal in mind, but the drastic difference in observed accuracy given the same shooter, environment, and skill level was a huge surprise to me. I completely agree that practice, practice, and perhaps more practice will let me improve my skills with the 4567.

- Dave

I was thinking about the SA vs. DA possibility, but once I load the chamber on the 4567 it shoots in SA mode until the clip is empty. During my hour-long range session, I pretty much shot both pistols in SA mode exclusively.

I'm with you on the heavier gun theory, and the fact that there's a reason why the 1911 has been so popular for so long. I just didn't want to discount the accuracy of the 4567 in the right hands. If I can hope to expect that those "right hands" will be mine some day, then I'll just keep at it (and still keep the SW1911 on my Christmas list).

Nice graphic, BTW! That's a keeper! I forgot to mention that I'm a leftie. Does the graphic still apply to me, or should I flip it horizontally in Photoshop?

EDIT: Found the left-hander version online (thank you Google):



Ref: New High Resolution Pistol Correction Chart w/ XDTalk logo - XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source!

- Dave

Dave, you are not alone. I am left handed also and consider myself a seasoned hand gun shooter. When comparing a 3rd gen to a 1911 for accuracy, the 1911 will usually win. I have done the same type comparison with my Kentucky State Police 4566 and a Springfield Champion. The Champion has always come in more accurate in a controlled fire enviornment. Can't really explain other than the difference in the trigger pull. But in an emergency situation, self defense, I would rather have the 4566 and a double action pull on the first round. Don't get me wrong, I just have a mental problem with carrying a cocked and locked 1911.

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Mike in SouthCentral Kentucky

"Riddle me this: Why would I -- a self-proclaimed n00b -- be more accurate with a rented SW1911 than I am with my own personal 4567 pistol?"

The sight radius on the 1911 is longer than on your 4567.

I'm guessing the 1911 trigger pull is lighter than even the single action pull on the 4567 as well.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

The biggest difference for me was the grip angle & shape. I ended up selling my 4566TSW, because I could not get it to group. Always hit low, S&W even replaced the front-sight with a shorter one, still hit low and I couldn't get it to group--had several people try it everyone hit low. Sold the 4566TSW and bought a S&W 1911, and right out of the box I was hitting where I was aiming and was able to keep a group.

I had originally bought the 4566TSW, because I have a 5906, and it is a terrific shooter, hit POA, and feels real comfortable in my hands. Unfortunately, the 4500 series frames are not the same as the 5900. Now I don't blame it all on the gun, as I am far from being a great shooter, but my brother in law who shoots alot and even trained shooters was hitting 4" low at 10 yards but keeping a good group. The 4500 series are great workhorse guns, the 4566TSW never had any issues function, but they aren't for everyone.

I have a similar "problem".
Right now I am going nuts trying to get a Beretta M9 to get somewhere close to the bullseye (shooting left of center). My S&W 1911 is dead on, while the Beretta looks like a shotgun blast after 15 rounds. And that is firing single action. I hate to use this word, but "ergonomics" seems to have a great effect on how well you shoot different handguns. For some folks the 1911 design just fits and feels better and you get better results with it. That helps explain while it's still so popular.

Thanks for all the great comments and suggestions!

@625smith, the longer barrel of the SW1911 could definitely help with the aim, but my feel is that I'm dead-on as I begin my squeeze. I'm thinkin' more pilot error coupled with the fact that, as @vista461 stated, the trigger pull is different, and to @novalty's point, the grip is definitely different in my "man hands." The 4567 is an extremely comfortable pistol for me, but I can see as I firm up my left-handed grip that it strays just slightly to the right.

I'll be printing the Pistol Correction Chart next week and unloading several rounds to see if I can firm up my grip and/or stop slapping the trigger. In parallel, as @Deputy and others have mentioned, the SW1911 is "dead-on balls accurate" (to quote "My Cousin Vinny") right from the get go. I may have to make the SW1911 Pro a tax refund gift to myself, keeping the 4567 for SD/HD and continue to practice my grip.

And so the S&W obsession begins ...

Thanks again, everyone!

- Dave

The deed has been done! I just bid on what I hope will be a new family heirloom: a NIB SW1911 Pro (178011):




I doubt I'll be sleeping well for the next week or so, 'til this two-tone beauty shows up at my friendly, neighborhood FFL dealer.

- Dave

While I usually wouldn't recommend a 1911 for a newbie shooter, it's darn hard to not be accurate with one for all the reasons previously listed. Just remember not to treat her like a glock and shell be great to you

Btw, excellent choice for a first 1911..might as well start looking for your 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc

I agree with Firefightermdc...it's a beautiful gun!

I, too, shoot my 1911's with more consistency than most any other gun except my revolvers in single action...short, crisp triggers make all the difference. Double action and/or longer trigger pulls require more from the shooter IMHO.

Thanks guys. I seriously can't wait.

And I believe Firefightermdc is right: This is simply the beginning of a S&W obsession. I'm on my third week of S&W pistol ownership and already have two pistols in my collection. This could get ugly.

I'm curious why 1911's are typically discouraged for newbie shooters? Are they considered a high maintenance or high skill-set pistol? Is there anything I should watch out for as I break it in?

I have no risk of treating it like a Glock since I'm not a huge fan of plastic (aka. polymer) guns. I like the heft and stability of real steel, and shoot my 4567 exclusively in single action mode.

- Dave

1. Probably a combination of trigger and grip.
2. No.
3. Your choice on that one.

Getting back to #1, have you tried a Hogue grip, or a Hogue Handall on your 4567? If not, do so. That Delrin grip that is standard on the 3rd-Generation autos can be a troublemaker.

The trigger on the S&W DA autos is harder to manage than a 1911 trigger, IMHO. But one thing people overlook is what the gun actually does when fired. When the cartridge begins to explode, it is crucial that the gun "does not move" in your hand until the bullet exits the barrel. That is a nonsense statement. All guns move in your hand when fired, but you want that movement to be as uniform as possible from shot to shot. The concept is called follow-through.

I have always found the Hogue grips or the Handall helpful on the S&W DA autos. It is a cheap experiment. Buy one or the other and give it a try. If you like the size of the stock grip, buy the Handall. The Hogue grip for the 4500-series guns is quite a bit bigger than the factory grip.

You will also find dry-firing will tell you a lot about what you are doing wrong with your trigger in any gun. Be sure to observe all the normal safety precautions about dry-firing. It's a good idea to remove all loaded magazines and ammunition from the room that you are in while dry-firing. You want to make it as hard a you can for an "accident" to happen.

As to the guns, I would think both the 1911 and 4567 are roughly of equal accuracy. They are both basically service-grade guns. It is likely just a matter of the 1911 being a little easier for you to do better with, given all the factors involved.

I will suggest that shooting well with a traditional DA and shooting revolvers in DA only makes you a better shooter with all types of guns. I practice a lot with my 3rd gens and rarely pull the hammer on a revolver. I have become a better all around shooter and can usually shoot well with most any gun...especially striker fired and 1911's. I owe that to my 3913 and my 6904.