Shorty Forty v. other 3rd Gen. 40s

Dang it, another S&W .40 model has turned my head recently: the "Shorty Forty." Those of you in the know, I need your opinions here, and thanks in advance for any advice.

First, a confession: I love a good pistol story. From reading about how the Shorty Forty came to be, I've learned that pistol guru and master gunsmith Paul Liebenberg at S&W took up the challenge of an S&W chief engineer who said adapting the groundbreaking 4006 to a smaller frame "couldn't be done," and flat-out did it. From there, the "Shorty Forty" with its 3.5" barrel morphed into the venerable 4013 and its later TSW versions in a production model back in the 90s, and a CC-sized 40 came into being.

Supposedly -- and I confess to not having ever shot one -- the Shorty is a dream to shoot, holding quarter-sized groups at 25 yards. It's also, as a Performance Center product, hand-fitted by the PC gunsmiths and also equipped with oversize rails and a Briley spherical bushing, both of which contribute to its legendary accuracy.

Now, my question and my dilemma: is the Shorty Forty the queen of the S&W third generation pistols? With all the talk about the reputation of the 4040PD and some of the other production 40s, what's a guy to believe? As I said, she's turned my head recently, and suddenly my desire to own one has become as strong as that for my previous Grail gun, the 4040 PD.

Thoughts on value, compared head-to-head?

Third-gen gurus, what say you?

I have a SF and have posted how I came about owning it. "Windsucker" is a very special firearm to me and a deeply significant one. She is a pure joy to hold, carry and to shoot. She's my carry-gun during the winter months and packs a hyper-accurate punch for a small weapon.



I don't know all that much about a 4040PD but I too have researched the story of the SF and have recieved a lot of valuable assistance and help from the forum members here. I'm sure that you will too. I don't even consider myself a "guru" just a very proud owner of this magnificent handgun.

As for it being the Queen of all Third Generation pistols? I'll say this: If she is not, then she should be. The way I see it is if it weren't for Liebenberg creating it - and thus giving new light to the Performance Center with it - many more PC guns wouldn't have come about, in my opinion.

Everything about the SF is first-class. From the match-grade Briley bushing to the over-sized rails. The trigger is perfect to my mind and fingers and the accuracy is phenomenal.

I fear buying a 4006 I've wanted and had my eye on for a while due to being disappointed in it not handling like it's compact custom brother. Sadly, due to funds and the recent purchase of a 5904, I'll have to put off my eventual purchase of the 4006 and when I do eventually buy it, with the current state of social consciousness about "evil guns with high-capacity magazines" and such other nonsense, the price will have sky-rocketed and magazines will be hard to find.

Gunsamerica and Gunbroker both have (at the time I write this) SF's listed on their website. And, if memory serves a forum seller had one listed in the classifieds not all that long ago. Decent asking price too.

I can't offer a head-to-head comparison as you asked. All I can do is rave about what mine is capable of and has done in my hands in the past. The sad fact is that S&W will no longer make them. Buy one if you find one. You will not regret it.

Happy New Year!
-Jim

I have found mine to trump all the other .40 compacts I have ever shot. Having said that I used to work at an indor range allowing me to shoot plenty .40 cal compacts. My USP compact comes damn close as my favorite.
I like the Shorty so much I just picked up a 4013 TSW to keep it company. I have not had a chance to shoot the 4013 yet but they are siblings so it should be just as fun.

The recoil is manageable, damn accurate and it is one of my favorite carry pieces. If you have a chance to get one don't hesitate. I like it better than my 4006TSW and my M&P 40.

Thanks, guys. I'd read and appreciated on the Forum the story of "Windsucker" and I understand the significance it holds, in addition to being a sweet, accurate shooter, so thanks for that input. i've also followed the listings on the different sites for the Shorty Forty models they are advertising, from $850 to $1200 or so, and they seem worth the money for what you get. The Performance Center is a breed apart price- and quality-wise, and I have no doubt the extra $ is worth it for what you get. I have an M&P 40 full size and a Shield 40, but for a 40 cal. guy, it seems a Shorty Forty would be a great addition to my stable.

There's no question in my mind that the PC gun is substantially more gun for the money than anything in the 4013/4014 line, including the TSWs.

I have a consecutive set of SF, PCS0573,0574, there were 1100$ in 3/93, they will be 20 yrs old in march 2013. They were worth the price then and are worth that now. Be Aware that some people are selling "shorty forty MK3" they are different guns. I have not shot them, but they are 2 different animals the first set of SF was only 1500 total guns. No mine are not for sale. There is one on GB now with SN 13xx, very nice. Good luck,

vipermd said:

I have a consecutive set of SF, PCS0573,0574, there were 1100$ in 3/93, they will be 20 yrs old in march 2013. They were worth the price then and are worth that now. Be Aware that some people are selling "shorty forty MK3" they are different guns. I have not shot them, but they are 2 different animals the first set of SF was only 1500 total guns. No mine are not for sale. There is one on GB now with SN 13xx, very nice. Good luck,

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Absolutely correct, ViperMD. According to my S&W Standard Catalog, there were Mark III versions of the Shorty Forty in 1995 (blued, wih prefix "KPCxxxx") and 1997 (stainless, with prefix "PCWxxxx") that had MSRPs of $949 and $1025 respectively. No information on how many of both versions were produced, though.

The original run of Shorty Forty was for 500 guns; however the final production numbers for what is commonly referred to as the 1st generation pistols is somewhere around 1500. There are minor differences within this series. An example of this series is here:



The 2nd generation pistol is the rarest of the Shorty Fortys; highest serial number I've seen has been SPC022X which would put around 230 of them in production. You will notice the differences from the 1st generation here:



Then came the MkIII pistols, previous generations only came with windage adjustable sites. The MkIII came in blue and stanless with fully adjustable sites. I don't have a picture of this series but they are easily recognizable by the MkIII etchings on the slide. An interesting sideline to the MkIII; if you look at the slide of a MkIII the machining of the slide looks very similar to the current M&P slides.

The final series of Shorty Forty came with the Shorty Forty 2000, you don't see these too often and again I do not have a photo. These too are easily recognizable being two tone. I have never see any production numbers on these.

To answer the OP's question, I have a 4006, 4003, Shorty Forty and M&P40C. There is no question that the Shorty Forty is the most accurate pistol out of the bunch; however all of them will serve the intended purpose (self defense).

I do not have any experience with the 4040PD however but will tell you the story that lead me to purchase the M&P:

Like most gun nuts I'm always looking for the perfect carry piece; I'm always trying new pistols, holsters, loads, etc. The Shorty Forty is very close to the perfect to carry gun for me. Having said that with my lifestyle I have found that the most conveinent form of carry for me is an ankle holster; this is where the Shorty Forty falls short where the M&P excelled. The 5 - 6ozs. difference in gun weight gives the nod to the M&P here. Given these paramiters the M&P more closely fits the bill and I don't carry my Shorty as much as I used to.

For waist carry there is nothing like the Shorty Forty; the only thing the 4040PD will get you is a slightly slimmer package. Both guns are biult on their 9mm counterpart's frames, unlike the original 4013 that was built on the 4516 frame. If you get a Shorty Forty you will not regret it, I will soon have had both of mine for almost 20 years. Quality never goes out of style, if you get one of the 1st generation pistols you will have a near exact copy of the pistol Liebenberg laid in front of that senior engineer and you will own a part of history.

Sam

I agree with Sam about carrying the Shorty Forty on the waist. Also having a plethora of different styles of holsters, I find that there isn't a better combination for winter carry (although, my 1911 compact comes mighty close!) than a SF on the hip.

My younger brother has a S&W M&P Compact in .40 and his preferred method of carry is in his boot of all places! (he wears engineer boots). The holster he uses allows him to carry it in the small of his back, too.

There's just comfort in knowing that there is a bunch of .40 S&W goodness all tucked away neatly on a belt under a winter jacket. To me, that is pure peace of mind.

-Jim

Definitely a "Grail Gun" for me!