CS45 - CS9 owners, please step inside.

I'm in the process of finding a small semi auto for BUG use. Being familiar with the reliability and accuracy of the 3rd gen pistols, I'm leaning twards the CS guns.

Those of you that use these as a BUG or CCW gun, how are you carrying them? Vest holster? Ankle holster? Off hand IWB or OWB holster?

I've been playing with the XDs9 and XDs45. Not sure I like either of them. That grip safety, for a BUG, puts me off. I shot the Glock 36 and the Glock 27. The Glock 36 might be something I'd consider as an alternative to the CS guns. But the example I shot was not 100% reliable when I (and its owner) shot it. It was not pleasant to shoot either, for me. I prefer a 45 but might go with a 9mm. "shields" or any "m&p" are not options I would consider.

So tell me about your CS45, CS9 and even CS40 experience. Thanks! Regards 18DAI

I have all three CS pistols and always used a pocket holster.I now carry the .40 Cal.Shield most of the time.I use the ones made by DeSantis.
The pocket holster is simply my personal preference though.
As far as the CS series,In my opinion they are an excellent CCW pistol and of the three,I preferred the .45 Cal.

CS45

I have one and carried OWB. It's pretty heavy fully loaded, and too big for my pockets. Bigger gents might not have a problem. Big Dog slim grips and modified mag bottoms help with size a bit. Great pistol.

I never became interested in the CS40, myself.

I ordered an early production stainless CS45, and then later on I got a CS9 (after they'd changed over to steel sights & ambi safeties).

I like both guns well enough, but I tend to like the overall size and grip profile of the CS9 over the CS45. The CS45 has a somewhat chunky grip that's on the large end of things for my hand, but the CS9 feels as though they used my hand for a pattern when making the grip frame and Hogue grips.

FWIW, I tend to look at the Glock G36 (3.78" barrel) as being more comparable to the original 4513TSW (3.75" barrel) in overall size and magazine capacity.

The CS45 requires a specific magazine body that incorporates a set of added indentations below the lips, needed to keep the top round from becoming dislodged under recoil. It can also make them harder to load, due to the extra effort involved in pressing the rear of the rounds through the indentations (and makes unloading live rounds pretty difficult, upon occasion).

CS45 mag on the right & original 4513 mag on left:


The thick and blocky Hogue grips on the CS45 do help in controlling the gun during fast-paced shot strings, especially when I was still using +P loads back when the gun was new. (Nowadays I stick to one or another 230gr hollowpoint.)

The diminutive CS45 does require a solid grip & locked wrist in order to help prevent feeding issues, but that's pretty much true of any of the smallest .45's. A short slide run, reduced slide mass and increased cycling speed can play havoc with things if a good grip technique isn't being used. Those stubby, wide .45 bullets require some additional mechanical movement than the narrower 9's do.

I shoot the CS45 more than the CS9 simply because it seems to require more investment on my part in order to maintain my skillset with it (compared to the CS9). The CS45 has more snap & muzzle whip than my 4513's, and the 4513's seem to be more "forgiving" when it comes to a less-than-optimal grip and/or locked wrist.

My CS9 is a very pleasant little 9mm to shoot. If it makes sense, it provides a point of balance that's more rearward in my hand than my 3913, and less "muzzle heft" out in front of the hand. The CS9 points and tracks with a more "lively" balance.

The CS9 also has a nicely brisk & quick cycling, but without all that much increased snap & muzzle whip, even when shooting the +P+ & +P duty loads. A bit more noticeable than when shooting the same loads out of the 3913, but not to the degree that shooting hotter loads through the CS45 offers.

A nice feature of the CS9 is that it can use the 8-rd mags for the 3913 series as spares, unlike the CS45, which requires its own specific mags.

The CS9 & CS45 use the same magazine springs, followers & butt plate inserts as their larger model siblings (3913 & 4513/66). They can also use the original wide & fat TSW butt plates which shipped with the original subcompact TSW mags, as well as the curved butt plates.

The recoil springs are different for the calibers, and use single, flat-wound coil type springs (green for .45 & red for 9).

The older CS guns were shipped with blue/carbon steel slides and matching alloy frames, and then they released stainless slide versions. Plastic sights and single-side manual safeties were used.

As the model line continued they replaced the plastic sights with "standard" steel Novak Low Mount sights and ambi safeties.

I've seen both plastic (Nylon) and steel guide rod plungers used in the CS metal guide rods (same design used in the newer guide rods for the rest of the 3rd gen guns). I have both, and am currently using the plastic plungers, as I recall.

The mainsprings are shorter than the compact model springs.

The mag catches are the same used on the Value Line guns, being a plastic button (nut) that snaps over the left end of the steel mag catch body. It's a 1-time use button that must be replaced if ever removed. It's not adjustable like the 3rd gen mag catch buttons, and uses a different spring (no plunger, either).

I typically carry my CS9 & CS45 in OWB leather belt holsters (Hume H726's), although i have a nifty little Blade-Tech belt slide I had made for me many years ago. The front cut is lower than "standard", but just enough to allow for proper retention (tension adjustment). It was made for my order, and I was told they typically didn't want to make one-off custom holsters (but I knew a guy there at that time). Nice, light and flat.

The CS45 is a bit thick for my preference for a pocket holster carry weapon, but the CS9 does a pretty nice job of it, especially compared to my other 9's (3913, SW999c & a pair of G26's). A taller grip, but a shorter and less "blocky" slide.




CS9/45




642 & CS9



All things considered ... I tend to prefer my CS9 over my CS45, but the CS45 is an example of how a nicely done subcompact TDA .45 can be made.

BTW, my CS45 has an ambi safety in the pic because I had it converted to decock-only many years ago. It came with a standard single-side manual safety assembly.

Thank you Fastbolt for another awesome tutorial on the CS line. I have copied and pasted more than one of your posts over the years. You are certainly all knowing on the CS9s and CS45s. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom.

De nada ... but the thanks really goes to the folks at S&W over the years who have taught me as much as I could learn (but which really falls far short of what there is to know) about these guns.

I just pass along some of the things I've learned, as well as some of my observations and thoughts along the way.

While I'm thinking about it, something in 18DAI's original posting - that he's considering either one of these subcompact guns as a BUG/Secondary weapon - makes me think of something else that might be worth mentioning ...

Using a smallish handgun as a BUG can sometimes mean trying to access it and drawing/presenting with a non-dominant hand, especially if your dominant hand is being used to fend off an attack, is injured, etc.

This is something to consider when determining which carry method is desirable. Can it be accessed by only one hand, or both? Is the "ideal" placement oriented for the dominant or non-dominant hand? If you have to pick ONE, which is it, and why?

If I were choosing between my CS9 & CS45 for a non-dominant hand holster, and expected I might be trying to employ it under physically demanding conditions which might not allow a consistently ideal grip & locked wrist, I'd go with the CS9.

I've had a small number of occasions over the years while shooting my CS45, when I felt my wrist unintentionally relax, or my grip unintentionally soften at the wrong moment, and I experienced a feeding stoppage.

That hasn't happened when shooting my CS9 (yet, anyway).

The 9mm gun seems to be somewhat more forgiving, or perhaps more tolerant, of shooter-induced grip support issues.

Itty-bitty .45's have often had a reputation for being less tolerant of ammunition-related issues, as well. Lots of fast cycling, but a short slide travel ... during which that stubby, fat .45 ACP cartridge has to rise up to the mag lips and position itself for being stripped, fed & chambered.

Might be something to think about. Dunno.

The CS9 mag does hold an extra round, if that matters.

Also, while I realize it's probably close to sacrilege to mention the plastic guns in a 3rd gen topic ...

I have to mention that I finally got around to trying a T&E Shield 40 (among several M&P's we've been T&E'ing).

I'd heard from a more than a couple of guys that it was too snappy compared to the Shield 9, and everybody was ordering Shield 9's for the past few months. It seemed somewhat akin, by their descriptions, to when I shot some earlier SW9940c's, and found the felt recoil to be noticeably more than the SW999c (which I bought). Or, how the M&P 40c (which I own) has more snap & muzzle whip than the M&P 9c (which I ought to have bought. )

Not so, though.

I was using some 180gr duty loads and found the Shield 40 to be nicely (surprisingly) controllable (still not as mild as the Shield 9, using +P), but surprisingly "nicer" than my M&P 40c.

REALLY, REALLY accurate, too.

It handles and shoots BETTER than my CS45. More controllable. Thinner. Easier to shoot fast & accurately.

What's the world coming to?!?!?!?

Sorry 18DAI. Couldn't resist.

I can't add a thing to what has been said about the CS-series S&W autos. I do have a recent production XDs .45 and have been shooting it for a month or so now. Seems like an excellent gun if you can live with 6-shots. I wouldn't be too concerned about the grip safety. Sure, it is another slot to let crud enter the gun, but as far as possibly having a problem with activating it so you can fire the gun, that doesn't seem likely.

I don't know if this will help any but I prefer either my cs9 or cs40 and I belly band the bug. In the summertime I am using a 638 but will switch in the winter when I actually have to put clothes back on again! The grip sizes get progressively thicker between the 3 and my hand size makes me less comfortable with carrying the cs45 which is why my preference is for the other 2. I love all 3 calibers so that is not an influence on my decision at all.

I pocket carry my cs9. I just swapped the base plate for a flush fit one from a Kahr magazine. Gained a couple 10ths of an inch. Now, just to find some slimmer grips....

I don't know about the CS9 as a BUG, but it's great for primary carry. But then, I'm not an LEO.

A CS9 and an 8 round reload is my cc weapon in the summer time. Both usually ride in a floppy Uncle Mike's pocket holster stuck down in the mag pocket inside the cargo pocket of my Tru-Spec's. They don't flop around even if I run (although that definitely doesn't happen often). In cooler weather or "formal occasions" the CS9 fits the same IWB Tucker leather as my 908 or 6906.

If I carry a bug it is a 638 in a pocket holster which fits nicely in the front pocket of even snug jeans, but the CS9 just doesn't ride well for me in a front pocket - which is surprising considering they are so close to the same size.

I carried a model 36 in an ankle holster for years and can't imagine the CS9 there unless I tied a brick to the other foot to avoid walking like a peg leg.

My primary carry alternates randomly the gamut of CS9, to CS40, to 908 and 908s.... I know - It's a mood thing. I carry all in Desantis' "Cozy Comforts" E28's.

18...dont get mad at me.

I had a CS9D for years and it was a very good shooter for a small package. I did do my own 3913 grip conversion which aided in concealment.

I did sway over to S..H...I...E...L...D nina and got a horrible and gritty 9+lbs trigger with a new gun purchase through KitteryTP.

I was able to reduce by 1 lbs with some smoothing of slide internals (very rough)

decided to go APEX trigger kit which brought the trigger to a very clean breaking just over 6 lbs.

I had two shorties and did not want both so I had to make a decision and the deal breaker was the DAO trigger. While I was accustomed to it the heavier longer stroke of the DA press...my wife and daughter in my opinion if I was no longer around would not be effective with this trigger system. Anticipation of recoil and muzzle movement downward during the long trigger press would cause them to drop shots. Since they dont listen to me and both are very consistent with a Glock and M&P....decided to let the CS9D go. yes....kick me but it would have just sat.

I carry my Shield in a bag as a back up when working, drop it in my waist band on a simple cord holster when off duty.

If I was no longer around....I know my family would know how to be effective with the M&P trigger system when needed.

With that said.....there was nothing wrong with the CS9 set up and a 3913 grip mod. You just have to know the DA/SA trigger system which it appears you know.

I have the CS9, 40 and 45. The 9 is by far the most comfortable for me to carry in any manner, thus it is my usual/regular CC gun. I prefer OWB, use a PJ holster kydex for carry that style (he doesn't make specifically for CS9 so ordered for 3913 and just trimmed length a little) and wear cover garment. Alternate carry is in Recluse or Mika or Remora pocket holster (depending on how much room in pocket) in cargo pocket. Tried ankle, found it uncomfortable. Good luck in your quest.

SW CQB 45 said:

18...dont get mad at me.

I had a CS9D for years and it was a very good shooter for a small package. I did do my own 3913 grip conversion which aided in concealment.

I did sway over to S..H...I...E...L...D nina and got a horrible and gritty 9+lbs trigger with a new gun purchase through KitteryTP.

I was able to reduce by 1 lbs with some smoothing of slide internals (very rough)

decided to go APEX trigger kit which brought the trigger to a very clean breaking just over 6 lbs.

I had two shorties and did not want both so I had to make a decision and the deal breaker was the DAO trigger. While I was accustomed to it the heavier longer stroke of the DA press...my wife and daughter in my opinion if I was no longer around would not be effective with this trigger system. Anticipation of recoil and muzzle movement downward during the long trigger press would cause them to drop shots. Since they dont listen to me and both are very consistent with a Glock and M&P....decided to let the CS9D go. yes....kick me but it would have just sat.

I carry my Shield in a bag as a back up when working, drop it in my waist band on a simple cord holster when off duty.

If I was no longer around....I know my family would know how to be effective with the M&P trigger system when needed.

With that said.....there was nothing wrong with the CS9 set up and a 3913 grip mod. You just have to know the DA/SA trigger system which it appears you know.

Click to expand...

I bought SW CQB 45's CS9D and love it! Thanks again, it makes a nice stable mate to my 5943. I personally favor the DAOs, I'm all about keeping it simple.
I sold the CS45 I had mostly to keep a consistent battery of arms on my semi-autos. But also worked a trade deal that I couldn't pass up.

CS models

Thank you for the opportunity to be of some assistance! Over the past few years, it's been the other way around - where it seems you and Fastbolt have been the fountain of knowledge with respect to my many S&W 3rd Gen questions...

After a brief experience with the M&P 40C, I've stayed away from compact 40s, though some might consider my 4013TSW in that catagory. I have had both the CS9 and CS45 models of this fine series. I have other compact 45ACP pistols, that I prefer, so have concentrated on the CS9. While I've owned 3913/14/53/54 pistols, and a 908S, I really like the CS9. (So much so that I've just purchased a second one). The one that I currently own is a stainless version, with Big Dog grips and a variety of mags. It has trijicon night sights (front and rear - Novak style).

Not only does my CS9 conceal well, even in a holster (typically, I wear it in an OWB, under a a sweatshirt or jacket), but this gun shoots with exceptional accuracy and reliability. It is, along with my old Kimber Ultra Carry, my "go to" pistol for concealed carry.
So, of the three models, the CS9 gets my unequivical nod.

Again, thanks for all your great advice over the years!!
XAVMECH

WOW!! Thanks all for the great information!!

Fastbolt thanks for the pictures too!

XAVMECH thank you sir!

I had range time this weekend and got to examine many different guns and shoot a few of them too.

A CS9 is my next purchase. I'm not certain I will carry it as a BUG, but I may. The frontrunner right now for a new BUG is a Sig 290. A little hammer fired, polymer framed, DAO 9mm. A LT I know uses one as his BUG and let me shoot it this weekend. Very accurate, light weight, reliable with RA9T too. I can't afford the new price, but a quick check on used versions seems more reasonable. Trigger wasn't great, but was better than the other guns I tried.

He has a custom ankle holster for it. When he showed it to me he had it in the pocket of his 511 work pants. He was using a "sticky" pocket holster for it. I have a similar holster from DeSantis that I use with a 3913. Not in the pocket but in my waistband under a T-shirt. I will use it with my CS9 too.

I appreciate all the feedback! Thanks very much for helping me decide.

I found the grip safety on the XDs variants to be a liability on a pistol that would only be used in extremeis. I was able to make it fail to fire using poor hand holds. So was my shooting partner. He was examining them at the same time. A poor hand hold may be likely in the event you are wrestling around on the ground or have been put in the situation that you are pulling your BUG. Those pistols need a memory bump on the grip safety, IMO.

The CS40 I didn't find an example to shoot. The CS45 was not that much smaller than my 4513TSW V1 and was not as pleasant to shoot, for me. The baby Glocks were too bulky to carry on an ankle, for me. The Glock 36 was as unpleasant to shoot as an Airweight J-frame using 357's. My shooting partner said after running a mag through it, "It kills in front and maims to the rear!" It also jammed three times while we shot it. FTF's. No thanks. The Ruger LCP was OK. But I don't go below 9mm.

One gun I finally got to examine in person this weekend was the Glock 30S. This Glock appeals to me. I have read the rave reviews and it looks and feels pretty nice. It reminded me of a slightly lightweight 4516-3 in its slide dimensions and its large white dot front sight. Sadly, I did not get to shoot it. The owner said it is a little bit snappier than his Glock 30 SF. But just as accurate and reliable. The 30S may be the first Glock I actually purchase.

So, I'm going to do my due diligence and research this little Sig 290. I will shoot it again too. But I will be buying a CS9 first. Night sights and decock only if I can locate one. Thanks again for all the kind assistance! Best regards, 18DAI

18DAI:

I'm with you on the G30s. Just bought one a few weeks ago and found it to be very accurate, reliable and controllable. While I am really fond of the 3rd Generation pistols, I can't say I've ever owned a CS9 or CS45, so I can't really make a comparison. Just a question, though; I have a Shield 9 and an XDs45. Both are excellent in terms of reliability, accuracy and concealment ability. Did you have a bad experience with these little guns? They are really hard to beat for your stated purposes.