What are the limits for "standard velocity 22LR ammo?

I've seen a lot of information spouted about "favorite ammo" for the S&W M-41. It appears to range from the subsonic all the way to the supercharged loads, depending on the writer and the apparent lack of damage created to his target pistol with the use of hot loads.
The manual is somewhat vague, as suggesting ".22LR caliber ammunition ONLY".
When I bought my M-41, the club shooters made it PAINFULLY CLEAR that I was to shoot ONLY standard velocity ammo, and the concensus was to buy CCI 40gr 1070fps rounds.
There are many more products available from a number of manufacturers now, although the packaging has a much wider leeway in what the manufacturers consider "standard velocity".
Could someone offer velocity parameters for S&W M-41 ammo?
I realize the lower limits are probably when the firearm experiences FTF, but what should the upper limit be kept at or below?
Just to clarify the confusion..........

As my Daddy used to say, "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left."

I don’t think that there is an industry “Standard” for “Standard Velocity” 22LR Ammunition any more than there is a standard for “High Velocity”.

That said; most manufacturers list velocity as measured from a 16” or 18” barrel, except for a few specialized varieties intended for semi-auto target pistols.

In most case, Standard Velocity (16/18” barrel) is from 1040-1080 fps, 1070 seems to be a favorite number. Most Target and Match ammunition from the major makers such as Eley, Lapua, and RWS simply call their ammunition Match or Target and the usual speed is again about 1070.

I surmise that target ammunition is more precise when held below the speed of sound.

The specialized pistol ammunition runs about 900 fps from the shorter barrel, as by the way does ammunition called SV and measured from a 16” barrel but shot from a 5" barrel.

In my experience what you get for your money as you buy increasingly expensive .22LR ammunition is consistency. The SD for Eley Tenex is very low.

just as reloaders experiment to find the most accurate load

You should do the same for your 22. I don't believe there is a magic forumula. Your hands over a couple of sandbags & a target... record group size.
Most target guns use different twist, most compatible with standard velocities, but there are too many variables, bullet shape, hardness, lube, plating.

The most preferred ammo for the M41 or M46 is actually the CCI SV 40gr. bullets. They are not perfect but are close to it in both my target pistols. I do have the odd FTE with it but mostly it shoots very well in my guns.

I would throw out the idea on upper limits for a 41 to be what ever you decide is abuse vs longevity of you 41. I shoot a High Standard Victor, quit a bit, and due to metal that was used in manufacture and a design flaw that showed up years later, one can destroy the gun with the use of HV ammo, when the frame cracks. Remember these are blow back firearms and the more velocity, the more recoil, yes SV at around 1050-1070 will run only around 900 for a 5-6 inch barrel. Question is, why would you want to purchase the HV or Hyper V stuff to shoot in a pistol? just thought, but me, I would only feed it SV thinking I am not mistreating a fine firearm. Run a few rounds of Hyper Velocity thru the gun with hearing protectors off and listen to the increased sound of metal banging against metal. Dang, go home and beat the dog or something if you want to mistreat something, not a fine S & W.

I cannot add anything about MV of SV .22 ammunition. It is what it is. I do know that Eley pistol match has a lower MV than other brands. None will break the sound barrier from a handgun-length barrel. About all you can do is try different brands and types from a very steady rest at 25 yards and see what happens with your particular gun. A Ransom Rest is best, but not too many of us have one of those. Next best is to use sandbags from a very solid surface. Do not let the gun touch anything other than your hand. No point in using high-velocity .22 ammunition for any competitive use.

A tip on ammunition testing - The smallest number of shots that can be fired to get a statistically-reliable (i.e., with a standard deviation (SD) of 5% or less of the mean) average value of extreme spread (ES) is 50. Specifically, five groups of 10 shots each. DO NOT even think about using 10 groups of 5 shots. You would actually need about 20-25 groups of 5 shots each to get the same level of SD confidence obtainable from 5 groups of 10 shots, as 10-shot groups are vastly more data-rich and efficient than five-shot groups. Firing more than five 10-shot groups is even better, but five is a practical minimum number of groups required for statistical soundness. Calculate the average extreme spread (ES), using the five (or more) 10-shot groups, as your criterion for comparing grouping performance of various brands and types of ammunition when fired from your gun. Forget anything else you may have read or heard about test methods for quantifying performance of the gun and its ammunition. And there are many of them around, such as calculating Mean Radius, which is next to worthless for any practical purpose. Believe me, I have personally done a great deal of statistical analysis and computer modeling regarding what the concept of grouping really means, and I do know what I am talking about. And the U. S. Navy will back me up - that's their method of testing small arms ammunition performance for lot acceptance. Except they go a step further by using two different test barrels with five 10-shot groups fired from each. If the average ES from either test barrel exceeds their standards, the lot is rejected.

I'd really like to go into more detail about the statistical analysis leading to these conclusions, but it would take up far too much space and be unintelligible to anyone not having some level of understanding of the mathematical basis of statistics.

My choice for all my 22's is standard velocity ammo.

Works great, does everything I want.

I 'm not interested in high vel 22's

The trivial velocity increase in hi vel isn't worth having and airs no practical difference.

That's pretty well what I expected to hear from all of you, and I humbly thank you for your imput.
I do know of three instances of M-41 owners who shot 'just about anything' in their M-41s, only to end up having to send them to The Performance Center for repair to the tune of several hundreds of dollars each.
Same for my Ruger Government Target T-678; there is NO benefit in shooting Hi-Velocity ammo out of a target .22 pistol unless the shooter is too cheap to spend the extra monies for a .22LR hunting pistol.
Between gunbot.net and what I picked up at Camp Perry last weekend, I'm ready to head out to the range for some extended shooting time to see which of the standard velocity ammo brands shoots best in my M-41.
Life is good!

I am more concerned about accuracy than supposed wear from say Mini-Mags. I have yet to see really good groups from very low cost ammunition.
Part of the reason is velocity variation. That is compounded by inconsistent crimping, and probably other inconsistencies such as rim thickness.

I agree with the outline that DWalt gives us but I can also tell you that when the first ten shots gives you an ES of 100 with average at about 850, you are wasting time to go further.

For many years, CCI-SV has been given us a good combination of price and quality. But my recent experiences with relatively new lots have not been as good as in the past.

In my case, I have enough problems getting good groups without adding the problem of inconsistent ammunition.

oldRoger said:

I am more concerned about accuracy than supposed wear from say Mini-Mags. I have yet to see really good groups from very low cost ammunition.
Part of the reason is velocity variation. That is compounded by inconsistent crimping, and probably other inconsistencies such as rim thickness.

I agree with the outline that DWalt gives us but I can also tell you that when the first ten shots gives you an ES of 100 with average at about 850, you are wasting time to go further.

Click to expand...

Non-uniformity is the enemy of good grouping performance. Achieving very high levels of uniformity during production is costly. That, and stringent quality control, is why .22 match ammunition is so expensive. Having said that, I have done extensive testing at 50 yards of various brands of all types of .22 ammunition in my Winchester Model 52B match rifle with a Unertl 10X scope. Results are sometimes surprising. Often, the cheap economy bulk-pack brands of .22 ammo from Federal and Remington perform about as well as some brands of match ammunition. So the only way to tell what ammunition is best for your gun is test-test-test. Then test some more.

For many years, my brand of choice for competitive shooting with that rifle was simply CCI standard velocity. It did as well as match ammunition. But that was many years ago.

There is a book “Rifleman’s Guide to Rimfire Ammunition” By Steven Boelter, published 2006 which covers extensive and carefully done testing of all of the available rimfire (22LR, shorts, .22Magnums, and three .17s) ammunition at that time.

He had intended to up-date and do some testing from pistols, but of course the “Great Rimfire Recession” has delayed if not ended that plan.

I recommend this book to all rimfire shooters not only for the ammunition tests but the other interesting findings about cleaning, barrels, etc.

Rimfire Rifle shooters who have achieved a high level of proficiency not only select by brand but by production lot. Both Eley and Lapua have indoor ranges with “sleds” where your rifle can be tested under ideal conditions using various lots of their ammunition.
I understand that when you find the best lot you buy two or three cases of it.

My proficiency does not soar to such high levels, nor is it likely to improve much.