I have 10 mags for my 4026 after ordering 3 more used ones a week ago. I have 5 of each kind, the law enforcement only mags have different color followers than the standard mags, yellow versus blue. Is one better or more improved than the other?
I have 10 mags for my 4026 after ordering 3 more used ones a week ago. I have 5 of each kind, the law enforcement only mags have different color followers than the standard mags, yellow versus blue. Is one better or more improved than the other?
Assuming everything you have is factory original, the yellow follower magazines are all pre-bans (pre-1994). The ban period magazines (1994-2004 - marked LEO/Export restricted) and every 4006 magazine made thereafter used blue followers, which are still available today as replacement parts.
The only small controversy about these magazines is exactly when the blue followers started appearing and why? They seem to be pretty much identical to the yellows except for color. There are many who claim that the blue followers appeared before the ban started, which tends to discount the notion that the color change was made just because of the ban. S&W did not change the color of the followers in any other hi-cap magazines just because of the ban so that also tends to further weaken the argument that the color change was made just because of the ban.
While there is evidence that the change happened at some point before the ban started, most in my moonbat state of MA use the yellow vs. blue followers as indication of the pre-ban vs. post-ban break point anyway. It's more about what a cop or prosecutor might believe and having to prove in court that your blue follower 4006 magazine was actually made pre-1994.
The blue followers are the "current" (latest) color.
I've asked a few guys (reps, armorer instructors, customer service LE contact, etc) about the color change from yellow to blue for the .40 followers, but I've never really gotten a definitive answer.
I've not been able to eyeball a difference, like you can sometimes do with other follower revisions, but that may only mean that whatever revision or change was involved, it's not something you can see with the naked eye.
I've also been told that sometimes S&W may change a vendor, and if they do, that might involve a color change (plastic or paint) to ID parts from the different vendor.
Or, it's been speculated it might involve a specified change in the material used (plastic formulation), for some reason known only to the engineers.
Whatever the reason, I've not been told that any yellow follow .40 followers "must" be replaced with blue ones. If you ordered new ones, though, you'd get blue.
I was told that one large agency changed out all of their yellow .40 followers for blue, simply because it was the newest part and that's what they wanted to do.
I bought my Model 4006 brand new in August 1990. Serial#TFF0108. It came with 2 blue follower magazines. I ordered this pistol in early 1990 ( February I believe ) and I'm assuming once LEO orders let off they finally sent some of these to dealers for the civillian market.
I bought my Model 4006 brand new in August 1990. Serial#TFF0108. It came with 2 blue follower magazines. I ordered this pistol in early 1990 ( February I believe ) and I'm assuming once LEO orders let off they finally sent some of these to dealers for the civilian market.
That would be pretty amazing if that's an original follower. As I'm sure you're aware, the first full-size .40's came out in 1990 and yours is clearly one of the first. It has always been my understanding that the 11-round .40 magazines used yellow followers for at least the first 3 or 4 years with the swapover to blue occurring in either 1993 or early-1994.
But then again, I'm old and I've been known to be wrong before.
I still have the pistol/ box etc. I would take some pics of the mags but the pistol is in Canada and I'm in Florida. I've posted pics of the pistol here on the forum several times. I wasn't aware of the yellow follower magazines until now.
I still have the pistol/ box etc. I would take some pics of the mags but the pistol is in Canada and I'm in Florida. I've posted pics of the pistol here on the forum several times. I wasn't aware of the yellow follower magazines until now.
There are billions of them out there! That's about half my stash in the photo.
But blue followers appearing very early in the full-size .40 3rd Gen world would certainly solve some long unanswered mysteries (e.g., like how my very early 4046 came with a blue follower magazine - I always thought it was a later replacement)... but it would also create a brand new mystery! Like why would S&W switch from blue to yellow followed by a change back to blue?
This is exactly why we need a chapter on magazines in the next iteration of the Bible!
I don't have any yellow follower mags.
All of my .40 magazines have blue followers.
All my blue follower mags are marked "Accu-Glide".
A quick scan of GB seems to indicate yellow follower mags are not marked "Accu-Glide".
"Accu-Glide" markings brought a change in follower color to .45 mags.
I don't have any yellow follower mags.
All of my .40 magazines have blue followers.
All my blue follower mags are marked "Accu-Glide".
A quick scan of GB seems to indicate yellow follower mags are not marked "Accu-Glide".
"Accu-Glide" markings brought a change in follower color to .45 mags.
Anyone here care to verify?
John
You are correct in that S&W's initial use of its "Accu-Guide" (or "Accuguide") trademark (applied for in 1990 and granted in 1991) also marked the switchover from yellow followers to blue followers in its full-size .40 magazines. But exactly when that changeover was made is still up for debate. I'd love to get some accurate information on that via known gun shipping dates with those newer magazines included if at all possible.
But what Brother 824tsv is talking about is very interesting. I checked my own Model 4046, shipped in 1990, and the blue follower magazine that came with it is not marked Accu-Guide. Is it just a yellow follower magazine that got updated before I bought the gun? Or, as Brother 824tsv says, were the earliest full-size .40 magazines shipped with blue followers prior to a switchover to yellow (and then back to blue again with use of the "Accu-Guide" trademark)?
I think Brother 824tsv is right. The earliest full-size 40's must have been shipped with blue followers. I'm going to have to change my thinking on this. I wish I could dig out my very early 4006 (shipped in 1990 also) to check the magazine(s) that came with it... but it is in deep, deep storage right now.
I guess I've spent too many years around Electra-Glides, Wide-Glides, Duo-Glides, and Hydra-Glides!
Anyway, I digress.
The OP's question was which follower is better, not when were they instituted.
If, in fact, the blue follower does indicate switch over to the "Accu-Guide" design/improvement (whatever that may be) then it would seem that "Accu-Guide" magazines (with blue followers?) are the better ones to have.
Thanks guys for all the info. To update , I now have 11 mags as I just found another magazine in the console of my truck while cleaning it. A few weeks ago Gunmagwarehouse had used ones and l ordered 3 and when they showed up I had 2 of one color and one of the other. I guess I need to inspect to see what I actually have in the gun room.
Thanks guys for all the info. To update , I now have 11 mags as I just found another magazine in the console of my truck while cleaning it. A few weeks ago Gunmagwarehouse had used ones and l ordered 3 and when they showed up I had 2 of one color and one of the other. I guess I need to inspect to see what I actually have in the gun room.
Realizing that followers can be changed, is there any correlation between the color of your mag followers and the word "AccuGuide" stamped on your magazines?
All the LE restricted Accu-Guide mags have blue followers. All the non-marked mags have yellow followers plus just above the floor plate on the front of the magazine body there are 4 hash marks. All my 3913 mags have red followers. I have yet to pull out all the 4566 mags and check them.
Best I can tell, Accu-Guide is a design whereby small rectangular dimples are impressed into the feed lips of .45acp magazines.
These dimples don't appear on the .40s but some other small dimples do.
They seem to be on both AccuGuide and non-marked mags so apparently the design improvement was incorporated at the beginning of .40 production.
AS TTSH has pointed out, S&W applied for the patent in 1990 and were granted it in 1991.
1990 is when the .40s debuted so it's possible that S&W had bunches of unmarked mag bodies and bunches of marked mag bodies. (When these manufacturing companies produce or order components, they will order a very large number that is produced in a relatively short time, and then not re-order for years.)
And the same is probably true for the yellow and blue followers.
The blue follower was probably less an improvement than an easy way for S&W parts people to visually identify the marked mags.
But in the high demand days during the introduction of this pistol, by the time S&W was able to fill civilian orders, I don't doubt that they put whatever they had at the time in the box.
John, I think you hit the mark with the thinking that S&W threw whatever magazines they had on hand at the time in the box for civilian orders. I'm sure we all know the first rule of thumb with S&W....there are no rules...
TTSH,
Looking at pics I have on photobucket the spec.ord code on my box is 0222 (Aug 10th, 1990).
AS TTSH has pointed out, S&W applied for the patent in 1990 and were granted it in 1991.
Just to be 100.00% clear (and rather anal about it), the S&W trademark "Accu-Guide" (or "Accuguide") and the patent for certain improvements in magazine design (mainly related to accommodating more powerful cartridges including the .40 and 10mm) are two separate things.
The trademark didn't depend on the patent or vice versa. But it's pretty clear looking back that someone at S&W must have felt that a trademark needed to be applied to its improved magazines for the first time in S&W history. Why? I have no idea.
Note that S&W did not hold onto the trademark for very long and it is now owned by an unrelated company.
John, I think you hit the mark with the thinking that S&W threw whatever magazines they had on hand at the time in the box for civilian orders. I'm sure we all know the first rule of thumb with S&W....there are no rules...
TTSH,
Looking at pics I have on photobucket the spec.ord code on my box is 0222 (Aug 10th, 1990).
One of these days when I have the time, I'm going to dig my very early Model 4006 out of double-deep secure storage and see if I kept the "as-bought" magazine(s) with it. You've now got me very curious regarding whether or not it came with early blue follower magazine(s).
Like I said above, that would change everything regarding how to tell a genuine pre-ban magazine from a possible post-ban magazine.
It would also have me running back to one shop that swore up and down that a blue follower magazine they had was a pre-ban. Now I know that I have to check the magazine body as well... and if no "Accu-Guide" trademark, it's good to go!
Is it possible that 824 (a Canadian) purchased his gun with his LEO credentials (if he was an LEO in Canada) and that is why he got blue followers in the yellow follower era? And/or any other blue/pre-yellow mags were issued to LEO agencies? Just a thought.
Is it possible that 824 (a Canadian) purchased his gun with his LEO credentials (if he was an LEO in Canada) and that is why he got blue followers in the yellow follower era? And/or any other blue/pre-yellow mags were issued to LEO agencies? Just a thought.
No,
I purchased the pistol from a local gun shop that was a Smith & Wesson dealer. I have the original sales receipt. If I could figure out how to link pics from photobucket using an iPad I would post some pics.
Today, in my pre-ban magazine hunting travels up in the "live free or die" state, I found a LEO/Export-marked 4006 Magazine (from 1994-2004, obviously) with a yellow follower. It didn't look tampered with (it was in a wrapped, labeled package but not the well-known S&W retail package of the period. And it had the "Accu-Glide" roll mark on it.
This would be the first evidence I've ever seen that you may not be able to assume that a yellow follower 4006 magazine is always a pre-ban.
That would be pretty amazing if that's an original follower. As I'm sure you're aware, the first full-size .40's came out in 1990 and yours is clearly one of the first. It has always been my understanding that the 11-round .40 magazines used yellow followers for at least the first 3 or 4 years with the swapover to blue occurring in either 1993 or early-1994.
But then again, I'm old and I've been known to be wrong before.
Bought my 4006 in 1990....Both magazines have yellow followers.......
Bought my 4006 in 1990....Both magazines have yellow followers.......
Interesting. I really need to dig out my 1990 Model 4006 and see if I kept the original "as-bought" magazines with it. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't when I don't get a box with a used gun.
On my post above re: yellow follower in a "ban-period" magazine, I still don't know what to think. So many years later, who knows if it's "as-shipped." There's just no way to ever know.
Bought my 4006 in 1990....Both magazines have yellow followers.......
Okay, I finally dug my 1990-vintage 4006 out of deep secure storage just to check the 11-round magazines that came with the gun.
Drum roll please...
Both magazines that I got with it are yellow follower magazines without the "Accu-Guide" roll mark. Same as another dozen or so pre-bans I've acquired here and there.
So it's just Brother 824tsv's 1990-vintage 4006 and my 1990-vintage 4046 that came with blue follower magazines... pre-"Accu-Guide" roll marking.
Although I'm quite positive mine are blue, I'll post picks when I'm home in early April.
Oh, trust me I believe you. If you want, I'll even post a photo of my 1990 blue follower magazine from my old "boat anchor" Model 4046.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH
Did that involve using a shovel?
Ha!!!!!!! Not quite but close! When I say "deep secure storage" I'm mostly talking about how crazy congested we live in tiny little TTSH Manor. I have to move about 4,000 pounds of stuff, including ammo, to get to that back safe.
Here is the promised pic of my 4006.
Ordered and paid for on Mar 11th, 1990. Received August 1990. Everything that came with the pistol is pictured including the 2 blue follower accu-guide magazines.
Here is the promised pic of my 4006.
Ordered and paid for on Mar 11th, 1990. Received August 1990. Everything that came with the pistol is pictured including the 2 blue follower accu-guide magazines.
And the tubes actually say Accu-Guide on them? If so, the whole dang theory of pre-ban vs. post ban must change yet again!
Yes, both say Accu-Guide on the right side. You can see the script on the magazine pictured on the left.
Oh Mama Mia!!!
Here is my one dark blue follower pre-ban that came with my 1990 Model 4046... and very clearly it has no Accu-Guide trademark on either side.
What do we make of all this? Beats me!
++++++++++
Edit: I will also add that I revisited the dealer who once had a blue follower 4006 magazine that he swore up and down was a pre-ban (and the old coot was old enough to probably know firsthand!). I went back just to see if he still had it and whether or not it said Accu-Guide on the tube. But to my huge disappointment, the mystery magazine was gone.
Well, I thought about this last night and did more research this morning. Member 824tsv's confirmed early-1990 magazines are 100% identical in markings and follower color to some that I had to give up from a post-AWB (post-2004) Model 410S. It boggles the mind.
I'm starting to think that the most probable explanation from the various difference in markings and follower colors must have been the result of two different magazine tube suppliers and possibly two different follower suppliers as well (or some magazines manufactured in-house and some contracted out).
If we ignore the one yellow follower LEO/export restricted ban period magazine that I found in NH as a possible follower swap-out or fluke, I think we can still say that all (or close to all) 11-round yellow follower non-AccuGuide-marked magazines are safely pre-bans.
We also always knew that at least some of the blue follower magazines are also pre-bans.
Based on 824tsv's information, I don't think I can continue to assume that my blue follower non-AccuGuide-marked 1990 magazine is all original. The follower might have been replaced before I bought it. No way to ever know for certain.
I guess we can also say that there is no way to tell the difference between pre-ban blue follower AccuGuide magazines and post-ban blue follower AccuGuide magazines. That could be a good thing or a very bad thing depending on the cop you happen to come across in moonbat Massachusetts or elsewhere where post-ban hi-caps are banned.
As for me, I'll continue to stay on the safe side and stick with my considerable stash of yellow follower non-AccuGuide-marked 11-round magazines. I wouldn't survive the financial loss and 10 years in a Massachusetts prison.
There are billions of them out there! That's about half my stash in the photo.
But blue followers appearing very early in the full-size .40 3rd Gen world would certainly solve some long unanswered mysteries (e.g., like how my very early 4046 came with a blue follower magazine - I always thought it was a later replacement)... but it would also create a brand new mystery! Like why would S&W switch from blue to yellow followed by a change back to blue?
This is exactly why we need a chapter on magazines in the next iteration of the Bible!
I am in need of one 4006 magazine. Do you have an extra to sell? Thx
I am in need of one 4006 magazine. Do you have an extra to sell? Thx
It looks like you found member spistols down in the classifieds. He has the motherload of 4006 magazines for sale... ... but if he can't help you, send me a PM.
This is an interesting and informative discussion. As per the S&W usual, we end up getting piles of information that only further muddies the situation. Even still, interesting and entertaining to ponder.
TTSH, you simply must know your answer, yes? In the event that you don't, I'll spell it out for you:
There exists absolutely nobody that is going to definitively answer your .40cal ban/pre-ban question. For damn sure, nobody that works for the State of Massachusetts and perhaps even more surely, nobody at S&W.
The way I see it, you have two choices...
You can use all your posts here as an affirmative defense that you did your due diligence and well beyond, or you can rid yourself of every 11-round S&W .40cal magazine you own.
I'll spare you the best answer that you've already heard a million times even though we both know it's the only right answer.
This is an interesting and informative discussion. As per the S&W usual, we end up getting piles of information that only further muddies the situation. Even still, interesting and entertaining to ponder.
TTSH, you simply must know your answer, yes? In the event that you don't, I'll spell it out for you:
There exists absolutely nobody that is going to definitively answer your .40cal ban/pre-ban question. For damn sure, nobody that works for the State of Massachusetts and perhaps even more surely, nobody at S&W.
The way I see it, you have two choices...
You can use all your posts here as an affirmative defense that you did your due diligence and well beyond, or you can rid yourself of every 11-round S&W .40cal magazine you own.
I'll spare you the best answer that you've already heard a million times even though we both know it's the only right answer.
Not like you to go resurrecting zombie threads... ... although I guess this one only qualifies as a semi-zombie thread!
Anyway, of all the worrisome and stressful things that keep me up at night (and believe me, there are many!), this isn't one of them. I'm totally comfortable with this earlier statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH
As for me, I'll continue to stay on the safe side and stick with my considerable stash of yellow follower non-AccuGuide-marked 11-round magazines.
Does that mean I am 100% safe in this specific regard? Of course not. Nobody is 100% safe from our nutty anti-2A AG lady. If you own a gun, you are her enemy. Since I own a pre-7/20/2016 AR, I am also a "felon-in-waiting" according to her. You get used to it.
As an aside, as it turns out, I now own a fairly good supply of 4006 10-round magazines in addition to the old yellow follower, non-AccuGuide-marked 11-rounders mentioned above. In fact, I own a bunch of 10-rounders for all my hi-cap-capable S&W all-metal pistols. The day may come when a new law outlaws even pre-bans in my crazy state. My investment is too large at this point not to be ready for anything that could come along someday before I kick the bucket.
Bottom line: You learn to live with oppression. You learn to survive behind enemy lines. I'd say I'm pretty darn knowledgeable & careful in terms of obeying our MA moonbat laws. I've spent a lot of time studying and dealing with our laws. Doesn't mean I won't die in a Massachusetts prison someday... ... but (and with apologies to Crocodile Dundee), at least in this one regard, I'd say my chances are better than average.