Arik
Member
The day I rely on Spanish guns will be the day....well..... never
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Interesting comparison
- Thread starter GaryS
- Start date
Remmark54
Member
I've had e few Sig P239s and liked them very much. I prefer the weight to lighter guns in general. The grip profile fits my small hands well but has a bit of an odd feel, different from the rest of the Sig profile. I shot it pretty well too. I have all 3rd gens now for carry (3953, 6946 & 3953s) as does my wife. Just fits even more perfect. Only Sigs left are the P6 (German 225) and P226. Also not mentioned is the Sig polymer series 2002. Also fits and shoots well with a hammer TDA action. I did handle an XDE, which I did not like as the trigger reach was longer than I like. I've had a number of XD's and liked them too. But will not be getting the new XDE. I find it funny how we keep coming back to previous designs like the single stack TDA for example. I guess we are rediscovering stuff, again.
Arik
Member
I think XD made that just to have a small foot in the other door. I don't think there's a whole rediscovery of single stack TDA
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OP
The market will tell us (and Springfield) if there is still some demand for TDA single stack guns. The only thing that I'd likely change on the XDE would be to include an option for a spurless hammer.
I might have to email Springfield and see if they have a plan to try to get MA certification for the XDE. The XDS in 9mm and 45ACP were recently added and prices are pretty decent.
I might have to email Springfield and see if they have a plan to try to get MA certification for the XDE. The XDS in 9mm and 45ACP were recently added and prices are pretty decent.
Arik
Member
There's always some demand. If there wasn't this discussion wouldn't exist. And since XD is a Croatian gun IMPORTED by Springfield their overhead is different and they may well be able to afford to make a small amount of guns for a specific market
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Here's my theory: Springfield is just being realistic about the market.
Let's say you wanted a striker-fired pistol, 9mm, compact-to-subcompact. The question then becomes: Why would you not buy a Glock 19 or 26, Smith and Wesson M&P or Shield, an H&K VP9, or a Sig P320? No matter what your particular brand of fanboy, the overwhelming majority of shooters (and gunstore salesmen) already have a dyed-in-the-wool favorite.
The only way to compete is to go after the people who don't want to buy any of those guns: a very large portion of shooters and CCWers who, however correctly or incorrectly, don't trust "semi-cocked" striker-fired mechanisms or pistols without an exposed hammer.
This isn't a small market, either. A lot of people I talk to just aren't comfortable with those sorts of pistols, and it's a lot easier to offer them what they want than to try and change their minds. Typically, their eyes just light up the first time they see a 39-series S&W.
So--Springfield is choosing not to compete with giants, but rather, to corner an underserved market.
And frankly, if it shoots half as well as the XD--which looks like it should be miserable, given the grip-to-bore, but somehow isn't--then they've got an excellent pistol to sell.
PS--I was skeptical of Tamara Keel, but she's quite good for a gun'writer.
Let's say you wanted a striker-fired pistol, 9mm, compact-to-subcompact. The question then becomes: Why would you not buy a Glock 19 or 26, Smith and Wesson M&P or Shield, an H&K VP9, or a Sig P320? No matter what your particular brand of fanboy, the overwhelming majority of shooters (and gunstore salesmen) already have a dyed-in-the-wool favorite.
The only way to compete is to go after the people who don't want to buy any of those guns: a very large portion of shooters and CCWers who, however correctly or incorrectly, don't trust "semi-cocked" striker-fired mechanisms or pistols without an exposed hammer.
This isn't a small market, either. A lot of people I talk to just aren't comfortable with those sorts of pistols, and it's a lot easier to offer them what they want than to try and change their minds. Typically, their eyes just light up the first time they see a 39-series S&W.
So--Springfield is choosing not to compete with giants, but rather, to corner an underserved market.
And frankly, if it shoots half as well as the XD--which looks like it should be miserable, given the grip-to-bore, but somehow isn't--then they've got an excellent pistol to sell.
PS--I was skeptical of Tamara Keel, but she's quite good for a gun'writer.
Arik
Member
Of course there's a market. I don't think it's a big one but no doubt it's there. Just like there's still a market for SAA and BP revolvers
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OP
I don't know her terribly well, but met her at the NRA Annual Meetings when they were in Indy. We have a mutual friend that we are both quite close to. His byline is going to appear in (I think) American Hunter soon.
She knows pistols extremely well. I know she used to work in a gun shop, and think that she works in a different one now. She knows guns quite well.
She knows pistols extremely well. I know she used to work in a gun shop, and think that she works in a different one now. She knows guns quite well.
Big Shrek
Member
As for myself, I avoid pistols built by vodka-swilling Croatians for $40 each
and imported into the US by shysters who boost the price by 10 times what they paid for it
Which reminds me, watch out for Sig's too
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Arik
Member
I do too although it gas nothing to do with Vodka ...or more corr Slivovitz.As for myself, I avoid pistols built by vodka-swilling Croatians for $40 each
and imported into the US by shysters who boost the price by 10 times what they paid for it
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I'd vote for NEITHER...
The Star Firestars in 9mm both beat the pants off of either offering
The Single-stack M43 is a phenominal little pistol, the metal frame offsets
the recoil nicely, and is a teensy little package.
The Double-stack M243 uses the same slide, with a slightly fatter frame,
also great for guys with big hands, which is why I sold my M43 & got a M243
The 243 also uses S&W 5900 series mags, so there's that
I remember the Firestar......... looks great...nice size...felt great in the hand ..But .... weights in at about +2 pounds lbs.....
A solid little hunk of stainless steel!!!!!!
The Sig 239........ nice gun, nice size...... but in person a chunky/bloated 39xx
I love my Beretta 92 Compact Type-M..... single stack ......but it's bigger than a Model 39...... 8+1 but a full 4.25" Barrel and slide.
in the end the 3913/14/NLs beat them all
Oh, I think it's there. How many guys do we know that would never carry a striker? Between here and on an actual range, there's a few I can think of.
Now--how many of those guys aren't already in love with Sigs, and don't rage against polymer frames? There's the market.
In any case, I think Springfield will have a much easier time differentiating themselves from Sig Sauer than trying to beat S&W and Glock, who operate closer to SA's plastic pistol price range.
GaryS said:
Oh, she certainly knows her stuff. And she writes well, her articles have a certain logical flow to them. I also quite like her "voice"--she remains relatable without adopting the "Neanderthal" persona a lot of gun writers fall into (which I don't like, because it's indicative of what they think of me).
And now, damn you, I just started reading her blog.
About the only thing she needs to do...is write an article saying an in-production gun is bad. Then she'll be perfect.
Arik
Member
Funny you mentioned that. Meet the new Springfield 911
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The unmitigated gall! Although, seriously, it's a slick little thing for the price point. I sort've wish they'd have used a swappable thumb safety instead of an ambi (but the market wants ambis). And I think that the "911" branding might be a bit iffy in front of a jury.
But it is, for all purposes, a smaller version of their excellent EMP for significantly less than the EMP's $850-$1050 street price. And that's not a bad thing. I think in a pistol like that, most people would be better-served with the .380 than the 9mm.
My only beef with it is the capacity--6/7+1. But that's mostly because my state has a 10-shot limit, so my impulse is always that a gun should be either super-tiny-rinky-dinky pocket-size, have a 10-round magazine, or be a J-frame.
All that said (more than I intended, sorry) Springfield manages to bring more new guns to market than Taurus, and fewer whacky ones. Good for them.
But it is, for all purposes, a smaller version of their excellent EMP for significantly less than the EMP's $850-$1050 street price. And that's not a bad thing. I think in a pistol like that, most people would be better-served with the .380 than the 9mm.
My only beef with it is the capacity--6/7+1. But that's mostly because my state has a 10-shot limit, so my impulse is always that a gun should be either super-tiny-rinky-dinky pocket-size, have a 10-round magazine, or be a J-frame.
All that said (more than I intended, sorry) Springfield manages to bring more new guns to market than Taurus, and fewer whacky ones. Good for them.
Arik
Member
I stumbled onto a small review of it the other day unintentionally and your phrase reminded me of it
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TomkinsSP
Member
Funny, I have 100+ year old guns from Eibar that work like the day they were made. I used to have some 50 year old ones too but my son glommed on to them.
I mean, its not like they were made in Cocoa...
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It's curious how MA folks always seem to want the guns they can't easily get (because "roster" and/or crazy AG lady)... but then when those guns finally become available, few folks actually run out and buy one.
They just switch their desires to a different gun they can't have... rinse and repeat! The Springfield plastics are a perfect example of this. And Lord knows I'm as guilty as the next MA guy.
Look at my collection spreadsheet and you'll see that not being able to buy one so easily tends to make the guns more desirable and always more valuable... until they become available and then the price crashes! 
Back in the "good old days" when I was still open to plastic, I wanted a Springfield compact plastic wonder gun so badly I could taste it.
I hated that my friends and family in free states could buy them... all they wanted... without any big effort beyond the pricetag and a 4473 form. 
But now that they are legal for dealer sale in MA and in all the gun shops, I have no interest whatsoever. My preferred dealer offered to pull a couple out just to show me what I couldn't previously buy... and I told him don't even bother. Go figure.
Human nature, I guess. Arik
Member
I have one too. Made right after WW2. Technically it shoots but I don't trust it for more than an occasional box of ammo at the range. I certainly wouldn't use it for practice and carry at which point it becomes just something that takes up spaceFunny, I have 100+ year old guns from Eibar that work like the day they were made. I used to have some 50 year old ones too but my son glommed on to them.
I mean, its not like they were made in Cocoa...
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N4KVE
Member
Simple. People want what they can't have. GARY.
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