Question about M.4566 TSW DAO

Hello all!

I own a 4506-1, a satin nickel 469, a 52-2, 2x 422s (a 4in. & a 6in.) a 622, and a 2206. I'm always looking for another semi-auto Smith, especially 2nd & 3rd gens.

On a local forum, I found a S&W 4566 TSW for sale. It is DAO, comes with 4 factory mags, no box. It does appear to have been dropped at least once, possibly twice, onto a hard surface. On the right side of the pistol, just below the rear sight, there are two obvious dings...and another dent on the forward right corner of the rail. None of them are horrid...but definitely deeper than scratches which could be buffed/polished out.

Now, my main question is this...in doing some research, I'm having difficulty finding mention of a DAO 4566. I do see where the WV State Police had DAO 4566 TSWs, but those were plainly marked as WVSP pistols on both sides of the slide. Also, this pistol has the small, round indent on both sides of the frame, right under the cutout where the safety/decocker would have been, complete with red filler, denoting the "fire" position, visible when the safety lever was in the up position. I understand that the frames were likely all made with those indents, but it puzzles me why the factory would have colored them in with the red filler? It has a standard looking rounded, "bobbed" hammer.

So...were there DAO versions of the 4566 TSW available to the public? Or, were there any other agencies which may have ordered these, but without agency markings? FWIW, it has a VJE3XXX serial number, and looks quite clean otherwise. The standard plastic grips look good...showing a small amount of casual wear.

I understand (unless this were a very small production batch...which I am not anticipating) that this is not going to be a great "collector" piece, being dinged, with no box. And, I'm fine with the asking price, as a shooter. But, I would prefer not to buy a model which has been altered after the fact, by God-only-knows who. And, because you're probably wondering...he's asking $450. As I said, I'm okay with the price, IF it isn't a "bubba" job. The metal "plugs" (for lack of a better word...inserts?) on both sides of the slide, which occupy the space where the safety/decocker would have been...all appear very nicely done, as if factory...nothing to suggest aftermarket tomfoolery.

Also, as an aside...he's offering me a 640 in .38 Spl (marked for +P+) for an additional $300, and/or a 442 (also marked +P on the barrel...is that common? I don't recall my 642 being so marked) for an additional $250. The 640 has some light "swirling" type scratches, which I'm pretty certain would buff out, but no box...and the 442 looks pretty clean, with its original box. My main interest is definitely the 4566...still trying to decide on whether to get either, or both, of the other 2. Oh, almost forgot...these are all "pre-lock" models.

Any information which anyone can give would be much appreciated. I would value any and all input, facts, data, opinions, or whatever.

Thank you all!

The true DAO version of the 4566 would be a 4586, which you probably already know. Sounds like the 4566 your looking at was converted to DAO. I know there are a few threads here about converting TDA to DAO and DAO to TDA. It can be done but there may need be some parts fitting involved to ensure proper function. I believe the later versions of the TSW models had the slides milled for use as TSW or DAO thats why they have the funky shape rather than a nice circle for the decocker body.
The factory may have done this conversion at one time but I don't believe they will do it now. I'm sure other members will be able to expand on this shortly. Can't add anything about the revolvers.

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WTN1271 said:

The true DAO version of the 4566 would be a 4586, which you probably already know...

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Yes, I was aware of the 4586. Made me question why the WVSP would special order (I assume) a DAO 4566, rather than just buy 4586s...unless that model was not yet being made at that time. But, since S&W did actually build at least *some* DAO 4566s...we know that it's possible, from the factory. You don't believe that any others were built?

Thanks for the input!

Bullzaye, I don't think there were any DAO 4566 models from the factory. They would have been designated differently. It's therefore probable the gun you are looking at has been altered. Others more knowledgeable than I am about how the safeties of these models are replaced and plugs put in their place will be glad to educate you further.

Edited: WTN1271 beat me to it!

I don't know of any WVSP 4566TSW guns that were DAO. The Melonite version was a decock-only. I seem to recall the WVSP used 4566 or 4566TSW guns before the Melonite model, but I don't think those were DAO either. Do you have a photo of one, Bullzaye, that you can share?

vigil617 said:

Bullsaye, I don't think there were any DAO 4566 models from the factory...

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Thanks for asking that! In looking for a pic...I've come to believe that I may have been misinformed, when I found that info about WVSP & the DAO 4566. The only pics I can locate of the WVSP 4566 all have the decocker. Call me naive for believing what I had read on Wikipedia...yeah, that was stupid of me!

So...until/unless someone comes along that has info to the contrary, I'm now left to believe that there never were any DAO 4566s. Which then leads me to wonder...was the pistol that I'm looking at converted by S&W, by request of a customer, or done by someone else? If so, is the asking price too steep? I already had asked the seller about this, before I had found the (now questionable) info regarding DAO 4566s...and he said it was like that when he bought it, and as far as he knew, it was factory. As I had said earlier...those red dots being present concerned me, as I couldn't figure what purpose they would serve on a DAO.

I'm guessing that the cost of having it returned to original configuration...would make it a much less attractive deal. I'd be glad to hear anyone's opinion on this pistol, as far as whether it's still a worthwhile buy, or if it would be best to walk away from it, and save the money for a better purchase?

Thanks to both guys for the answers thus far! Any more opinions or input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Bullzaye, here's my opinion, for what its worth.

If you like DAO guns, and that's what attracted you to the one you are looking at, then even with the dings you mentioned, $450 is a pretty good price for a 4566. To buy the comparable factory gun, the 4586TSW, in shooter condition would probably cost you a bit more.

OTOH, if it's a true 4566 you want, which is traditional double action (DA/SA), I think investing in one of those would make more sense. You might find a beater for $450, but you certainly could get a nicer one in the $550 to $600 range.

I've owned a 4566 non-TSW that was a fine gun, especially after BMCM tuned it up for me. I let that one go, though, when I found a WVSP 4566-M TSW that I had to have. I happen to think the 4566 series iis one of S&W's best, and there certainly are plenty of models to choose among depending on how in love you are -- 4566, 4566TSW, 4566-M, 4566-M TSW, and of course all the CQB guns (4566 and 4563).

Any chance this 4566 DAO has 2nd strike capabilities? Maybe it is a special build like the NYPD 3914, probably not but worth checking out I guess. Odds are it's just a 4566tsw that was converted. Good luck.

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I would buy it and convert it back to TDA. Same concept here - 4043TSW DAO/TDA Conversion
The fact that it has 4 magazines is a good thing since they are discontinued.

If the 4566 has the decocker/safety paddles on the slide, it is not DAO. It is likely one of the many 4566TSWs ordered by LE Agencies with a spurless hammer. These are often listed as "DAO". I don't know why.

The WVSP 4566TSWs were ordered with decock only and spurless hammers. Many LE agencies, prior to the WVSP order, had 4566s and 4566TSWs configured the same. My agency piggy backed on an order for a NC University police agency order and got us a batch of standard 4566s with decock only and spurless hammers.

I still have mine. And it operates as any other DA/SA 4566. It just appears different because of the spurless hammer. The spurless hammer was supposedly ordered by administrators to prevent "thumb cocking" the pistol. It was said that this practice might lead to people being shot unintentionally while being held at gunpoint. So if the hammer was spurless, you wouldn't try to cock it.

I like the spurless hammer because it made the 4566 slicker. It no longer ate up sport coat liners either. My tailor hated the new spurless hammer guns. Regards 18DAI

I have a 4586 DAO. I am looking for one marked "ISP " I Idaho State Police, they issued the gun in the past. The 4586 is a nice shooting gun.

18DAI said:

If the 4566 has the decocker/safety paddles on the slide, it is not DAO...

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No, as I thought I had mentioned...it has inserts, or "plugs" filling the space where the safety selector would have been. I certainly would have understood that having a decocker would have indicated that it was not DAO.

In answer to a question asked by vigil617...no, it's not so much that I am interested in DAO pistols. I would definitely prefer a "true" original 4566. However, I still wonder if it's worth buying...to some extent, to acquire the mags, but also...if it were factory converted (or possibly by a talented gunsmith who truly knew his business) and it's reliability and safe operation were not an issue...it might still be an interesting pistol. My concern is...who *did* do the conversion? The current owner is of the belief that it came from the factory this way, so he obviously has no input on any conversion.

To WTN1271...I'm not sure if this is operating from a partially "pre-set" condition, or is second-strike capable, as a true DAO. I will ask the seller. If done by the factory...does anyone know which it would likely be? I suppose it would most likely follow the pattern of the 4586, would it not? I believe the 4586 operated from a partially "pre-set" condition, did it not? As such, it was not a true DAO.

To jsbethel...I'm wondering how much that conversion would cost? I'm not too keen on attempting it myself, as I'm certainly no expert on the inner workings of S&W semi-autos, and I don't consider myself much of a gunsmith in any case. I realize it's just parts replacement, not necessarily any "smithing" involved, but...I'm still a bit loathe to attempt it myself.

Many thanks to everyone for all of the information. I'd still be interested in any other opinions that anyone may have. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do on this.

The 8-round single-stack factory magazines are plentiful because they fit several different Third Gen 45's, so (just my opinion) buying the gun to get the four mags isn't really a savings. You can buy singles for $35 or $40, and multiples for less per each. Just more food for thought.

vigil617 said:

The 8-round single-stack factory magazines are plentiful because...

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Oh, sure...I understand. I wasn't suggesting that I might buy the gun *purely* for the mags...but that the mags did help to sweeten the deal.

I've been in contact with the seller. He is dismayed to know that he doesn't own the gun that he thought he owned. He's now pulling his ad (because he doesn't want to mislead any potential buyers...I give him credit for that), and he now believes that someone put a 4586 slide onto a 4566 frame. He is thinking he'll part it out, as he has found that he can get $400 for the frame and magazines alone. So...I'm still thinking I might buy it. If I knew it definitely was a 4586 slide, I'd feel better about buying it, since it would mean it hadn't been "bubba'ed". I assume there's no functional issue with simply installing a 4586 slide onto a 4566???

Thanks for the input!

Hadn't even thought of the possibility of a 4586 slide, which makes perfect sense. I assume there would be no functional issues with this one on a 4566 frame, but others more knowledgeable than I about the TDA and DAO functions could speak more definitely about it.

The only thing that comes to mind is that the TSW guns were, as I understand it, characterized by slides and rails machined to match, so the original 4566 TSW frame wouldn't be the factory "match" to the 4586 slide. Whether that affects anything significantly, I couldn't say.

What does occur to me is that if you bought the gun for $450, you could probably find and obtain a 4566 TSW slide, which would give you the option to have a DAO and TDA package. Maybe that's what the original owner of this gun did, and if so, too bad the original slide isn't still available.

Interesting thread, sir!

vigil617 said:

Hadn't even thought of the possibility of a 4586 slide, which makes perfect sense...Interesting thread, sir!

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Thanks!

I actually hadn't thought about a different slide, either...prior to the seller mentioning it. But you're right...it does make sense. And, it would alleviate my initial concerns about the quality of the conversion work.

You mentioned getting a 4566 slide...I wonder how difficult that would be? I imagine that finding a 4586 frame would be even less likely!

I believe I'm going to buy it. I sure hope that I don't end up regretting it!

Thanks to all for the assistance and advice!

For a 4566 slide, you could always try placing a Wanted to Buy classified ad here. And keep an eye on the auction sites, of course. You never know what might turn up. I once bought an as-new 4506 slide from a fellow member here, complete with everything, to mount up on my 4566 frame whenever I had the itch to shoot a full-size.

vigil617 said:

For a 4566 slide, you could always try placing a Wanted to Buy classified ad here...

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Not a bad idea, I may just do that, thanks!

Hello, Mr. Bullzaye!

I own a 4566TSW and a 4586TSW (VJE serial number) as well as several other TDA (DA/SA) and DAO TSW models.

I have performed many of the TDA to DAO conversions and vice versa.

From your original post I see you mentioned this converted 4566TSW has the rounded ("hump-back") hammer.

This is indicative of the DAO conversion for the TDA models.

It is NOT second strike. All of the S&W second strike, DAO pistols (3914DAO and Chiefs Special "D" models) wear a "bobbed" or spurless hammer.

The action parts that convert a TDA pistol to DAO are the trigger and hammer.

Not the slide.

Installing a 4586TSW DAO slide on a 4566TSW TDA frame would result in a TDA gun with no way to lower the hammer without pulling the trigger.

As I said, that 4566TSW has been converted.

S&W designed them to be easily convertible, with just four parts, even at the department level.

Maybe it was done by S&W at a department request.

Maybe it was done by a department armorer at his Chief's request.

Maybe it was done by a private individual, but why wouldn't he have kept the original parts.

Finding a manual safety assembly, trigger, hammer, and sear release lever to convert it back to a 4566TSW would be a little difficult, but not impossible.

John

JohnHL said:

Hello, Mr. Bullaye!

I own a 4566TSW and a 4586TSW (VJE serial number) as well as several other TDA (DA/SA) and DAO TSW models.

I have performed many of the TDA to DAO conversions and vice versa...

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Thanks very much for that info. Some really interesting stuff.

Okay...so I guess we're back to "someone" having converted this to DAO. And back to not knowing who, or how good of a job they did. But...since you say they were designed to be easily convertible by only changing 4 parts, I'm going to presume (and hope) that it was done correctly.

So, how do you feel this affects the value? Is it worth the asking price? I'm going to meet the seller tomorrow, to look at it, and probably buy it. Do you have any recommendations of anything I should be looking for, or of which I should be aware? That is...specific to this DAO 4566. I'm not asking for general assistance in purchasing a used firearm!

Thanks for your help!

Bullzaye said:

Thanks very much for that info. Some really interesting stuff.

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Glad to help!
I find them very interesting, myself.

Okay...so I guess we're back to "someone" having converted this to DAO. And back to not knowing who, or how good of a job they did. But...since you say they were designed to be easily convertible by only changing 4 parts, I'm going to presume (and hope) that it was done correctly.

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It's pretty hard to screw up the TDA to DAO conversion.
The reverse is a little tougher because the sear release lever can require fitting.

So, how do you feel this affects the value? Is it worth the asking price?

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It probably lowers the value a little, however I don't see too many S&W 2nd or 3rd gen 45s going for anywhere near $450.00 anymore.

The 4 extra mags doesn't hurt the deal, either.

I'm going to meet the seller tomorrow, to look at it, and probably buy it. Do you have any recommendations of anything I should be looking for, or of which I should be aware? That is...specific to this DAO 4566. I'm not asking for general assistance in purchasing a used firearm!

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No. They're built like tanks.

As long as pulling the slide back a little "pre-stages" the hammer and the trigger pulls the hammer through the remainder of its travel and then drops it, you're good.

Thanks for your help!

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My pleasure!

John