Model 41 malfunctioning or not?

[oysterer]

This question has come up so many times I thought a poll is in order.

The internet tends to amplify the negative and may not bring out the many positive experiences quite as much.

Have you bought a current model 41 say post 2000. How has it been running? Lots of failure to feed, extraction problems, accuracy not as good as expected?

The question came up, how many of these new model 41 guns do sell, how many actually work very fine?

Thanks

[Domino1]

A 41 is somewhat of a kit gun. If you get one that is not right then it takes some time to get things worked out. If it works perfect right out of the box then you are lucky. Most need to be broken in and many people don't appreciate that. Once you get the bugs worked out then they can be very enjoyable to shoot.

[Infidel137]

Originally Posted by oysterer

....
The internet tends to amplify the negative and may not bring out the many positive experiences quite as much.

That's because of utterly completely biased stuff like your poll, which only has various choices to say "how bad is your new 41?" There is no response for me, which would be:
I bought a new 5.5" 41 in 2013, and it has been flawless and fantastic all the way. I bought a new 7" factory barrel for it last year, which fit perfectly and performed flawlessly right out of the box.

[oysterer]

Originally Posted by Infidel137

That's because of utterly completely biased stuff like your poll, which only has various choices to say "how bad is your new 41?" There is no response for me, which would be:
I bought a new 5.5" 41 in 2013, and it has been flawless and fantastic all the way. I bought a new 7" factory barrel for it last year, which fit perfectly and performed flawlessly right out of the box.

You are right. I forgot one option: I bought a new one and it is perfect!. Thanks for pointing it out.

I am planning to buy a new 7'' and I just wanted to shed some light on my hunch I have that they are a lot better than their 'reputation' if that makes sense...even one of the dealers who had 2 told me to stay away from it and it will likely go back to S&W as many others he sold have.

Glad to hear yours is perfect.

[Infidel137]

Originally Posted by oysterer

....
Glad to hear yours is perfect.

I did not say that it was/is perfect. It has an annoying tendency to put the bullet exactly where I pointed it rather than where I intended to point it.

But I and friends/family have had no problems with it, nor any malfunctions. It isn't even picky about ammunition, although I just don't shoot the really ****** stuff in anything.

[Amp]

I bought mine yesterday.
Unsealed the box today.
The chamber plug was driven in so hard it broke in three pieces.
So I disassembled to clean and cannot get it back together. Only without the slide stop will the slide move freely.
Smith did not answer the phone.

[oysterer]

Originally Posted by Amp

The chamber plug was driven in so hard it broke in three pieces.
So I disassembled to clean and cannot get it back together. Only without the slide stop will the slide move freely.
Smith did not answer the phone.

Interesting, my dealer received a 7'' I wanted and the extra mag was loose in the case, beat up the gun through the bluing and created deep dings and many scratches on the dust cover...disappointed. Refused to take it. Why they seem to have a hard time with little things like that. Waiting for another one for next week but definitely on the fence hard...

[Dave Lively]

None of the choices really fit my experience.

I bought one around 1994, give or take a couple of year. I would call that a new gun but am not sure where to draw the line between new and old.

Before I got through two magazines it locked up solid and had to go back the factory. At first it worked well with Federal Gold Medal target but after several years started having a lot of failures but that seemed to be more a change in the ammo than the gun.

After that I went online and read that CCI standard velocity was "the" ammo for M41s but I always got a couple of failures per box of 50 no matter what I tried. I finally gave up and started using MiniMags which are less accurate but work great and really enjoy shooting the gun.

I think a lot of us need a new category:

"Finicky, but works great once you find the right ammo."

[chief38]

I have posted these reasons for owning an old one before, but will re-post here:

My M41 was purchased by me, brand new in 1979 - paid $430.00 if memory serves. The older models have features that are not to be found on the newer models.

The older models have roll engraved markings vs the new laser printed ones. The older magazines are a thicker, heavier gauge metal and far far superior to the new ones and extra magazines fit perfectly right out of the box - unlike some of the new ones. The grips on the newer models are made of plywood (laminated) whereas the originals are solid Walnut. The bluing on the originals is also far superior IMHO. Fit, finish and slickness out of the box is also better on the older models. I've also noticed that the triggers seem better on the vintage models as well. Even though they can be adjusted slightly by moving the spring in the adjustment notches, the new ones are a bit heavier from what I have experienced with new ones my friends have bought.

Last but not least, the list price on the current crop of M41's is $1,400.00 + tax. Even with a discount, they are more expensive than most used M41's sell for ($900.00 - 1,100.00). Since the basic operation of the new ones is the same as the old ones, internal parts are readily available and S&W will still work on the older models AFAIK.

If you are really lucky you might even find a vintage model 41 (pre 1978 I believe) that has a cocking indicator. Not necessary of course, but kind of neat!! So those are my reasons for a vintage model over a new one.

Oh - I have also noticed that most of the pre-owned vintage model 41's (in particular) have been kept in great shape by their owners. Since they are basically an indoor target pistol they don't seem to get beat up like many other guns do.

NOTE: The S&W M41 is a GREAT and accurate target pistol! That said, you might also consider a vintage High Standard (in various models). They are also GREAT!! Were it not for the Slide Release control being on the "wrong side" of the gun and the Magazine Catch being on the Butt, I'd have bought one myself.

[Amp]

Originally Posted by oysterer

Interesting, my dealer received a 7'' I wanted and the extra mag was loose in the case, beat up the gun through the bluing and created deep dings and many scratches on the dust cover...disappointed. Refused to take it. Why they seem to have a hard time with little things like that. Waiting for another one for next week but definitely on the fence hard...

I am not sure we can blame Smith for this so far. If it was dropped in transit and they will fix it or replace all is good.
Just should not happen with any product.

[moosedog]

I've had 41's and 46's in every barrel length and never had a problem them although these were all pre 2000 models. Can't comment on the new ones.
They can be a little finicky about ammo brand as is most any 22 rifle or pistol.

[Rick H.]

Your poll options are short at least by one or two such as: "I have a new M41 and it went back to the factory for repair 1 time and now it shoots great." That would be my choice, but should also have another one for "I bought an older M41 with cocking indicator and it was junk. Sold it at a loss after trying to have it fixed". That would be my other choice. Then again you could have a choice for people that desire to have a warranty on a relatively expensive pistol instead of buying used and hoping it works well. Just saying.....

Rick H.

[Sevens]

Forum polls are junk but the discussion that follows them is often of great value.

My only 41 was made in 1991 and came to me in nice condition but far from mint. And while the frame and such are serialized to the box, the upper is not original and definitely pre-dates the frame, but I cannot tell when the upper was made. The barrel is the heavy 5-inch and the box says the original pistol was the long 7-1/2”.

I expected the pistol to be finicky even before I took delivery of it but it has been phenomenal for me. I have only run two different kinds of ammo through it so far, but I’ve pounded maybe 3,000 through it in the almost 3 years I’ve had it, would have to check my log.

I started with Aguila SV as I had bought a big load of that a few years back. The Aguila will give me a fail to extract at a rate of maybe 1 or 2 in 200 rounds. And it always happens when the pistol is cold, first or second magazine of the day and never happens again the rest of the time. It must have something to do with heat expansion.

The other ammo is CCI SV which is flawless and also prints a smaller group.

I think I owned 8 or 9 rimfire handguns before getting my 41, two of which are K-22’s, and since I’ve gotten the 41, it’s the rimfire that I shoot almost exclusively. The most fun that I have is when my buddy loads up his 41 also and we have empty 12ga hulls down range, 12-15 yards away. It’s a free for all and we laugh the whole way through it. Hitting them is -EASY- but when you smack ‘em on the aluminum head, they go skyward.

[rjm6120]

I bought a used 1985 version a couple months ago and will finally get to shoot it tomorrow. I will bring 3 brands of ammo to see if it's picky. Will report back tomorrow with my results, but am very anxious to shoot it.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by rjm6120

I bought a used 1985 version a couple months ago and will finally get to shoot it tomorrow. I will bring 3 brands of ammo to see if it's picky. Will report back tomorrow with my results, but am very anxious to shoot it.

As you might have read on this Forum, most M41's work best with the CCI Std. Vel. ammo. I'm sure there are exceptions but that is mostly what M41 owner's (inc. myself) use. I know my particular gun does not like Remington Std. Vel. ammo but shoots flawlessly with the CCI. Even if your M41 functions OK with other brands you should try the CCI for accuracy too (that is if you can find any).

[rjm6120]

Originally Posted by chief38

As you might have read on this Forum, most M41's work best with the CCI Std. Vel. ammo. I'm sure there are exceptions but that is mostly what M41 owner's (inc. myself) use. I know my particular gun does not like Remington Std. Vel. ammo but shoots flawlessly with the CCI. Even if your M41 functions OK with other brands you should try the CCI for accuracy too (that is if you can find any).

I actually happen to have a couple 100 round sleeves of that ammo, and one of the sleeves will come with me today. Not sure what other two brands I will take but will be standard velocity nonetheless.

[wetdog1911]

Originally Posted by Dave Lively

None of the choices really fit my experience.

I bought one around 1994, give or take a couple of year. I would call that a new gun but am not sure where to draw the line between new and old.

Before I got through two magazines it locked up solid and had to go back the factory. At first it worked well with Federal Gold Medal target but after several years started having a lot of failures but that seemed to be more a change in the ammo than the gun.

After that I went online and read that CCI standard velocity was "the" ammo for M41s but I always got a couple of failures per box of 50 no matter what I tried. I finally gave up and started using MiniMags which are less accurate but work great and really enjoy shooting the gun.

I think a lot of us need a new category:

"Finicky, but works great once you find the right ammo."

*I* would give 1990 as the cutoff year for 'changes'. They didn't happen all at once, but over several years.

What I base that on is, my 1990 M41 is roll stamped and has run perfectly from the git. A bud's 1991 is laser engraved and had some 'teething' issues till finally getting broken in.

IDK what other changes were made, but the laser engraving is a quick giveaway with just a glance for "old" versus "new"

I wouldn't trade that 1990 for 2 new M41s.

Rob

[rjm6120]

Originally Posted by rjm6120

I actually happen to have a couple 100 round sleeves of that ammo, and one of the sleeves will come with me today. Not sure what other two brands I will take but will be standard velocity nonetheless.

Soooooooo.....took the 41 to the range this morning, and was very happy. Wow, what a trigger!! I ran both Federal Auto Match (325 round package) and CCI MiniMag Target through it and no issues whatsoever. I think, accuracy-wise, it liked the CCI a little better, but not by much.

[D Brown]

I see there's no option for "I have a new one and it has never given me any trouble."

That's the correct option for my 2016 model. I guess you don't want to see any positive viewpoints on new Model 41's.

[oysterer]

Originally Posted by D Brown

I see there's no option for "I have a new one and it has never given me any trouble."

That's the correct option for my 2016 model. I guess you don't want to see any positive viewpoints on new Model 41's.

Reason I posted was that I plan on buying a new one. I totally forgot that option as in my subconscious mind most members here tend to have both old and new. It's good to hear that yours is fine.

The result so far suggest that only 1 out 12 had a more serious issue including the two comments above like yours missing the proper category. Not as bad...thanks

[wetdog1911]

Originally Posted by chief38

As you might have read on this Forum, most M41's work best with the CCI Std. Vel. ammo. I'm sure there are exceptions but that is mostly what M41 owner's (inc. myself) use. I know my particular gun does not like Remington Std. Vel. ammo but shoots flawlessly with the CCI. Even if your M41 functions OK with other brands you should try the CCI for accuracy too (that is if you can find any).

All I shot in my 1990 M41 was CCI SV. Still do, but it's old stock, well before the QC issues that seem to more prevalent recently.

Then, I joined RFC in 2002 and practically lived in the M41 sub forum. This was when the issues with the 'new' pistols was a constant discussion. Most of that didn't concern me, but 2 things stood out that DID concern me. One, was the new magazines compared to the older ones. On the blister packs the "for use in" stamp on the back just listed the 422 and M41 and the 'problematic' newer ones had 2 more pistols in addition to those 2, 4 pistols in all. I went on a prolonged search over several years in area gunshops and GB and ended up with 15 of the 'good' mags. They were still pretty common back then and at the same price,or lower, of the new ones.

The other thing was the high praise for the performance of Wolf MT (rebranded SK Standard Plus), in the M41s and .22s in general for pretty much the same cost (then anyway), as CCI SV. I tried a brick and the 41 just shone. Everything improved, both function and accuracy (even for me).

The icing on the cake came a bit later with an Ad in the SGN was selling cases of the Wolf MT for $186.00 fresh from Germany. I bought a case, but the ship sat in Boston harbor for 3 months from red tape. While that happened, I spoke to the importer and he asked if I would like a second case? He said, "It's only going to get worse", meaning the gov't red tape/slow walking. Made sense and by that time I had the funds for the second case, so, I added another. Once released, they had it to my door in just over a week. So, 10,000 rnds of SK Standard Plus for under $0.04/rnd!

Nope, I'm not selling any! Money is less important to me than having it safely stored in ammo cans in a controled environment.

Rob

[Kp321]

I guess I need to explain my opinion that I wouldn’t want a new one. I have two, 1971 and 1990 models that have been flawless. They are both a little worn finish wise but the price reflected the condition. Either shoots as well as I can hold, don’t think a new one for twice the price could do any better. I am a shooter and that’s what I bought them for.

[lowriderfxr]

I'd like to make a suggestion. I love the Model 41. I have 3 older ones with cocking indicators and 1 PC version. I also have a model 46 with the 5" field barrel. All of them malfunctioned for me. One day , I realized it was me and the way I was holding the pistol. I started resting my thumb on top of the safety like I do when I shoot a 1911 or 2011 and the malfunctions stopped. It doesn't take much upward pressure to partially engage the safety and make the gun stop running. I saw a new shooter from the UK shooting a friend's gun at a rimfire steel match and his friend was shooting it fine and then he couldn't fire it more than twice without a malfunction. I made the suggestion to him about the safety and it ran flawlessly for him as well. I know this seems like a simple fix and it may not work for you but it did for me.

[Blind Boy]

I bought mine new in 2008 with a 7" barrel. It was the second (and last) new firearm I purchased. It has several thousand rounds through it and functions just fine on CCI standard and Eley match pistol. SK pistol has the occasional stovepipe but I fixed that by not using it. I love it.

[wetdog1911]

Originally Posted by Kp321

I guess I need to explain my opinion that I wouldn’t want a new one. I have two, 1971 and 1990 models that have been flawless. They are both a little worn finish wise but the price reflected the condition. Either shoots as well as I can hold, don’t think a new one for twice the price could do any better. I am a shooter and that’s what I bought them for.

Yeah, the finish on my 1990 was a highly polished frame and a matt finished bbl, just starting the cost cutting. When I got a Bianchi holster specifically marked S&W M41, the finish really got worn. But, woods walking was even more fun than the range. I bought it to shoot, not just admire.

No MIM and hand assembled/fitted, it ran like a house afire, and still does, problem free. Once I switched to the SK made Wolf, I cannot recall any failure of any sort. Really don't recall any with the CCI SV either, but that was also 30 or so years ago.

Rob

[Kevin G]

chief38,
As a southpaw I view the High Standard slide release to be on the correct side.
I do tolerate its location on the wrong side if on a better quality gun like the 41.
Kevin G

[Troystat]

I have an early 70's version and the only time I have trouble with it is the first round fired after it has been cleaned, other than that it works great and has not been a problem no matter what ammo I have tried. That being said CCI SV is my normal ammo.

[oysterer]

Thank you all for helping me make the decision.

I went to the LGS on the fence about the new model and wanted to tell him to let me off the hook. Never owned a new production smith, revolver or auto and just could not make the jump.

I show up there and 1979 model 41 had just came in. Coincidence...a master plan of the universe? Wow, very little fired, few handling marks and a little pitting on the forward slide, oh well, little ren wax and it's a shooter. What a gun. I absolutely love it. I tried all kinds of ammo and with CCI SV and Fed bulk pack it runs and runs and runs. It's addictive shooting it and it's accurate. Will post some groups here soon. It all ended well and again...what a gun.

[wproct]

Wow, very nice! That worked out well.