Model 46 - Need Some Help Please

CKPOMEH · Jan 8, 2024

Hi gang -

I stumbled on a Model 46 with two barrels at the LGS today while picking up a 627-0 (topic for another thread). It is a little rough, especially the 7 inch barrel, but I am considering it. I have a couple of questions:

1. Based on what you see, does it look all 'original model 46' barrels and slide? I looked up some pics online and it does to me, but I do not have a model 41 to tell for sure. I can see the grips are not original (for neither 46 nor 41)...

2. When I press the slide release button, the mag won't pop out by itself - I need to pull it out with my left hand - is this normal for this model?

3. The LGS is asking $950 for it (came down from 999) - it seems high to me given the condition but all the ones on GB are much higher (but they are cleaner guns as well - so no good 'comps'). I know there were only 2,500 with 7 inch, 1,000 with 5 inch and 500 with 5 1/2 inch barrels made, so they are scarce.

4. Did they come as 'packs' - the way that some Dan Wesson revolvers came, or did someone purchased an additional barrel at some points? How do I know which barrel is the original? I assume the 7 was shot much more as it is drilled and tapped (competition?) and the 5 inch looks in much better shape.

5. Anything else you may notice from the pictures I need to keep in mind / should inspect more closely when I go back to make my final call if I will buy it or not?

Thanks a bunch in advance!

gmborkovic · Jan 9, 2024

Mr. CK, can you post some close up pics of where the slide meets the
rear part of the barrel? Do both barrels fit the frame? Back in the day
slides and barrels were swapped back and forth.

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

gmborkovic said:
Mr. CK, can you post some close up pics of where the slide meets the
rear part of the barrel? Do both barrels fit the frame? Back in the day
slides and barrels were swapped back and forth.

Sure, gmborkovic - here are a couple. I did not try to fit the longer barrel on it in the store, so cannot confirm fit. The shorter barrel fit, and the slide cycled well / easy.

ken158 · Jan 9, 2024

The 46 is the less expensive version of the model 41. Never saw a 46 come in any pack as you suggested. The grips in your pics did not come on the gun. Factory grips were a nylon / plastic. My last 46 in excellent condition in the box went to an auction and I got $800. The 46 in your pics is very over priced for condition and I would pass.

Tom S. · Jan 9, 2024

The price seems very fair for having two barrels. Grips appear to be Herrett's. I'd like to try it before committing to buy but would probably buy it either way. Cleanliness is important with these guns and lack of it can cause problems with feeding and mag extraction.

THE PILGRIM · Jan 9, 2024

Here’s my 46.

gmborkovic · Jan 9, 2024

CK, see that nice square fit between the face of the slide and back of the breech? That denotes an early 46. In my view, gun is over priced.

wazmancom · Jan 9, 2024

Both barrels and slide are correct for the 46. Note both barrels are prone to cracks at the frame/slide 90 degree intersection. Later 46 barrels had the 90 degree intersection radiused and eliminated the cracking issue. As mentioned above the grips are not original and condition leaves alot to be desired. The gun even with both barrels is slightly overpriced for a shooter. I myself would pass on it. Just one man's opinion.

chief38 · Jan 9, 2024

IMHO the asking price for a used and monkeyed with M46 is not any bargain! Secondly, for just a few dollars more you can get a better M41 in better condition that is still factory. Buying a gun like that is IMHO going to be a headache!

My advise...... never buy a gun that has been modified, moneyed with or altered in any way, REGARDLESS of how great you think the price is. In the long run it will cost more than a good gun and will do nothing but give you hair pulling fits!

teletech · Jan 9, 2024

The 46 has a narrower slide section than the 41 and those all appear to be 46 barrels and slides. That narrower slide actually improves reliability in my experience but is also prone to cracking where the thin part meets the heavier section, so look carefully for cracks or weld repairs and make sure to NOT use hot .22 ammo with that slide.
The stocks are aftermarket and may have been chosen to give a more 1911 grip angle.
As has been pointed out, the 46 was the "budget" 41 and was somewhat cheaper BITD. What wasn't pointed out is because it was only slightly cheaper, they sold very few of them and so they are much scarcer today. As such, nice condition ones draw a premium from collectors. This one is in unusually heavy patina for a 41/46, so the premium might not apply in this case.
I've not seen a field barrel for the 46 but I think that one could be a custom sawed-off job. Might be a past owner had a bulge in the end and had it cut down. Actually, this is likely as many 7" barrels had a cosmetic defect that didn't affect accuracy but sometimes freaked people out, but it could have been a "real" bulge or even just a preference. A pic of the muzzle would likely confirm custom vs. factory.
So, price is muddled from the poor cosmetic condition to rarity to "custom" to not-original, but here's my take:
I don't remember the last 41/46 I saw for under $1200, a real "field" barrel for a 41 is a $500 item by itself, I'm guessing all the folks saying it's too expensive haven't bought one in the last several years on the open market. The PO clearly spent so real-ish money on a second barrel and stocks, so might have been a competitive shooter or at least serious enthusiast, and lastly (but most importantly), the 41/46 is a dammed fine target pistol and if you enjoy shooting and don't own one, you owe it to yourself to lay hands on one ASAP so you can start loving it.
In a rest I've seen 3" groups at 100yards. It's not inherently more accurate than say a Ruger MkII, but it's easier to shoot well.
I'd love a knock-around grade 46 for under a grand, I can't bear to holster-carry mine because it's too pretty.

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

teletech said:
The 46 has a narrower slide section than the 41 and those all appear to be 46 barrels and slides. That narrower slide actually improves reliability in my experience but is also prone to cracking where the thin part meets the heavier section, so look carefully for cracks or weld repairs and make sure to NOT use hot .22 ammo with that slide.
The stocks are aftermarket and may have been chosen to give a more 1911 grip angle.
As has been pointed out, the 46 was the "budget" 41 and was somewhat cheaper BITD. What wasn't pointed out is because it was only slightly cheaper, they sold very few of them and so they are much scarcer today. As such, nice condition ones draw a premium from collectors. This one is in unusually heavy patina for a 41/46, so the premium might not apply in this case.
I've not seen a field barrel for the 46 but I think that one could be a custom sawed-off job. Might be a past owner had a bulge in the end and had it cut down. Actually, this is likely as many 7" barrels had a cosmetic defect that didn't affect accuracy but sometimes freaked people out, but it could have been a "real" bulge or even just a preference. A pic of the muzzle would likely confirm custom vs. factory.
So, price is muddled from the poor cosmetic condition to rarity to "custom" to not-original, but here's my take:
I don't remember the last 41/46 I saw for under $1200, a real "field" barrel for a 41 is a $500 item by itself, I'm guessing all the folks saying it's too expensive haven't bought one in the last several years on the open market. The PO clearly spent so real-ish money on a second barrel and stocks, so might have been a competitive shooter or at least serious enthusiast, and lastly (but most importantly), the 41/46 is a dammed fine target pistol and if you enjoy shooting and don't own one, you owe it to yourself to lay hands on one ASAP so you can start loving it.
In a rest I've seen 3" groups at 100yards. It's not inherently more accurate than say a Ruger MkII, but it's easier to shoot well.
I'd love a knock-around grade 46 for under a grand, I can't bear to holster-carry mine because it's too pretty.

Thanks Teletech - the above was very useful!

I am adding a couple of closer pictures of the long barrel. It definitely has some rust issues on the high points - my hypothesis is that the long barrel may have sat in a leather holster for while and this has caused cosmetic issues. This is no better than Fair.

In your (an any others) view, is this a useful barrel (shooting wise), or do you see any potential compromises to it?

The shorter barrel and the frame / slide look in much better VG condition which I do not mind, as I do intent on shooting it.

I do NOT have have a model 41, I have model 422 and 2213 (very different guns - I know they are not comparable due to very different designs), but I also have two High Standards (S101 Supermatic and 107 Trophy) and two Belgium made Brownings, in addition to a handful of K-22s / 17s / 617s / DWAs, Colt Woodsman 1st Series, and a Ruger MK II heavy barrel. I LOVE shooting them all, and was thinking of using the long barrel of the 46 as the 'shooter' (even put a red dot on it since it has the rails already) while preserving the 5 inch barrel as 'the collectible' barrel - this way I get to 'shoot it and collect it' in one gun. Otherwise I will have to get two (as I do with many other S&Ws) - an excellent condition 'collector' and a nice (G-VG) shooter.

I will still like to get a very nice early 41 as a collector piece when the right one comes closeby (so I can inspect in person)...

Thanks again everyone for weighing in!

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

gmborkovic said:
CK, see that nice square fit between the face of the slide and back of the breech? That denotes an early 46. In my view, gun is over priced.

Thanks for confirming on the squares, this was my read based on some reading I did last evening. Do you see anything else that may be of a concern / something to lookout for?

I added some more close up pics above.

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

chief38 said:
IMHO the asking price for a used and monkeyed with M46 is not any bargain! Secondly, for just a few dollars more you can get a better M41 in better condition that is still factory. Buying a gun like that is IMHO going to be a headache!

My advise...... never buy a gun that has been modified, moneyed with or altered in any way, REGARDLESS of how great you think the price is. In the long run it will cost more than a good gun and will do nothing but give you hair pulling fits!

Thanks for the note, Chief38 - totally agree to not buy any 'gunsmith specials'...

I added some more pics above - closer looks at the long barrel. Do you see anything else (aside from the rail) that may indicate someone had done modifications to it? The most 'modifications' I would tolerate is tap and drill for scope / red dot.

Cheers!

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

THE PILGRIM said:
Here’s my 46.

Thank for for posting! This helped me validate the square vs. the rounded corners I had read about - the one I am looking at seems to have square, which can be a concern!

Great looking pistol - hope it shoots as well as it looks!

TOM BECKWITH · Jan 9, 2024

Interesting discussion on your possible S&W 46. As noted, it is an early production unit with the "square cut slide and bbl. I believe both bbls are correct and from the same period. The added rib is no help as a collector, but with a Red Dot would be fine for shooting. As noted, the 5" bbl is rare and with the ramp sight, adds to that. My 5" "Field gun" is in the 25XXX range is patridge sighted, but with rounded slide and bbl - but was an AF training pistol, so upgraded as were many early 46s due the noted problems with the square cut slide cracking.

In general, the price is a little steep, but the 5" bbl with a ramp sight is a "find" in my book. As noted, ONLY standard velocity loads. I have enough 46 cracked slides in my collection already. And 46 grips are available.

Rowlf · Jan 9, 2024

Herrett H41 stocks.

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

So, I did some more looking around for pics on the inet and it looks like the the early (square edge) 5" had the ramp front sights:

like this one:
Smith & Wesson Model 46 Rare 5 inch Barrel Length .22 LR

or the one Pilgrim posted above!

vs. the later ones with the rounded slide / barrel edges had the partridge sights. Such as those ones:

1960’s Smith Wesson 46 5 Inch | Fugate Firearms

or this one:

SMITH & WESSON MODEL 46 for sale at Gunsamerica.com: 968956574

That last one seems like a really good deal, wish I had seen one like that!

Anyone can confirm that (I saw 7-8 pics, so small sample size). The SCSW does not go into that detail - it notes partridge front sights only, on all pics of 46 and 41 in there have only patridge sights - i did not see any ramp front sights in there.

I am leaning towards getting it (post another close inspection into all the critical areas you guys highlighted) - my thinking is the 7" barrel is probably worth $150 as true shooter that will be my only shooter with red dot on it (gives me that option), and I am getting a rare early 5" 46 for $800 in VG? condition.

Is my thinking rational, or am I just looking to justify a potential bad buy - be honest with me, grown man here...;-)

Cheers again, everyone - I appreciate the thoughts and notes!

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

TOM BECKWITH said:
Interesting discussion on your possible S&W 46. As noted, it is an early production unit with the "square cut slide and bbl. I believe both bbls are correct and from the same period. The added rib is no help as a collector, but with a Red Dot would be fine for shooting. As noted, the 5" bbl is rare and with the ramp sight, adds to that. My 5" "Field gun" is in the 25XXX range is patridge sighted, but with rounded slide and bbl - but was an AF training pistol, so upgraded as were many early 46s due the noted problems with the square cut slide cracking.

In general, the price is a little steep, but the 5" bbl with a ramp sight is a "find" in my book. As noted, ONLY standard velocity loads. I have enough 46 cracked slides in my collection already. And 46 grips are available.

Thanks for your thoughts, Tom! Your note above made me research some more - I posted above my observations on the round cut slide and the patridge sights going together vs. the square cut slide and the ramp front sights going together on the field / 5" barrels. We may have discovered something...

CKPOMEH · Jan 9, 2024

Rowlf said:
Herrett H41 stocks.

Yep, like those ones on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2761351872...AoPkgIzsYOG4h/gPLL1pvp990t|tkp:Bk9SR9TIx4meYw

They are much wider and thicker, made the gun feel like an older S&W double stack pistol (felt like I was holding my 459 in my hands). They were almost brand new - checkering was very strong, almost too 'sharp', especially the front of them as one can see on the pic - they were not rounded there...

larryofcc · Jan 9, 2024

I have a 2-1970 M41 with the sport bbl. It has the rounded corners and the ramp sight. That's why I bought it. Only a letter will tell me if the bbl. came with this pistol, and it is minty overall. Put a set of very pretty carved Rosewood Altamont stocks on it. Too cold to go out shooting. 6 degrees this AM. Sorry, no pics. Big Larry

Model 46 - Need Some Help Please

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