.45acp Magazines

K-22 · #1 02-11-2024, 09:18 PM

Which are the more desirable 645/4506, etc.magazines?
The all stainless, plastic follower,(orange, yellow) plastic base plate. Etc.
Which are harder to find?
I do have one magazine that says on the side, this magazine must have a yellow follower -D-1. This magazine has a black plastic base plate.
Best,
Gary

Sevens · #2 02-11-2024, 09:58 PM

If you have to pick one that would be most sought after, it would be a black follower magazine with black plastic floorplate. I suspect the least desired would be the metal floorplate and orange follower or possibly metal follower magazine.

Of course, if you wanted to go above and beyond… black follower, black plastic floorplate and Performance Center laser etched logo on the right side!

ACEd · #3 02-12-2024, 01:13 AM

Evolution of 4516 (& 4506) mags

4516 (no dash) only - Orange (redish orange) follower (Unmarked or Marked 4516 only) - Black Plastic Base
4516-1 only - Yellow follower - Marked 4516-1 only - note D shaped notch at top
4516-1 - Yellow Follower - Marked Must Have Yellow Follower
4516-1 - Yellow Follower - AccuGlide ES1 Otherwise Unmarked
4516-2 / 457 / 4513TSW - Black Follower (backwards compatible) - note additional horizontal notch at top

I dont have as many varieties of 4506 mags, but they appear to follow the progression of the 4516 mags as to followers and top geometry

4506 - Metal Base, Orange Follower (actually pre 4506 but similar to 4506 plastic base)
4506-1- Yellow Follower - Black Plastic Base - Side marked Must Have Yellow Follower and D notch at top
Late 4506, 4566, etc, Black Follower with horizontal notch at top.

Since the black follower mags are supposedly backwards compatible, presumably they are more desirable, but the orange and yellow followers would be more "correct" for no dash and dash 1 pistols respectively

ACEd · #4 02-12-2024, 01:23 AM

Better pictures - first 3 are variations of 7rd 4516 mags, last 2 are 8rd (4506 etc) mags

Sevens · #5 02-12-2024, 03:08 AM

645 mags were the first .45cal magazines that S&W ever used. These were 7-round with metal floor plate and metal follower. Later magazines had an orange plastic follower. I am honestly not sure if the 745 ever shipped with any of the metal follower magazines.

However, some 745’s did ship with magazines that had a hard black rubber drop pad attached to the metal floor plate.

4T5GUY · #6 02-13-2024, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevens

Of course, if you wanted to go above and beyond… black follower, black plastic floorplate and Performance Center laser etched logo on the right side!

Yes for sure one being PC marked on the right side would be different and special.

Since we have somewhat strayed but not from the original 645/4506 magazine question, and since only those that are interested are still following I’ve got a strange one.

20-25 yrs ago I got a 4516-2 locally cheap. Great condition w/box and extras. A really nice Safariland OWB holster, (marked S&W 4046,) and a very different pristine magazine came with it. It fit and locked up but was obviously too long in the 4516. (I didn’t have any white follower magazines then.) I took the holster and magazine back saying that there was a mistake. Nope it all came in together.

It looked like a 4506 magazine so I replaced the white follower with a new yellow one and spring. Works great in the full size .45’s. I had saved/labeled everything in the box and put it back today after thinking about the OP.

Too weird that it had a white follower and 10mm marked base. Just wondering what someone might have been thinking. The double mag catch cuts also has me questioning.

Jim

rosewood · #7 02-13-2024, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4T5GUY

Yes for sure one being PC marked on the right side would be different and special.

Since we have somewhat strayed but not from the original 645/4506 magazine question, and since only those that are interested are still following I’ve got a strange one.

20-25 yrs ago I got a 4516-2 locally cheap. Great condition w/box and extras. A really nice Safariland OWB holster, (marked S&W 4046,) and a very different pristine magazine came with it. It fit and locked up but was obviously too long in the 4516. (I didn’t have any white follower magazines then.) I took the holster and magazine back saying that there was a mistake. Nope it all came in together.

It looked like a 4506 magazine so I replaced the white follower with a new yellow one and spring. Works great in the full size .45’s. I had saved/labeled everything in the box and put it back today after thinking about the OP.

Too weird that it had a white follower and 10mm marked base. Just wondering what someone might have been thinking. The double mag catch cuts also has me questioning.

Jim

Could that have been one of the early prototype 10mm mags? Then the other question, would the white follower work fine in it? Did you ever try it?

Rosewood

ACEd · #8 02-13-2024, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4T5GUY

Yes for sure one being PC marked on the right side would be different and special.

Since we have somewhat strayed but not from the original 645/4506 magazine question, and since only those that are interested are still following I’ve got a strange one.

20-25 yrs ago I got a 4516-2 locally cheap. Great condition w/box and extras. A really nice Safariland OWB holster, (marked S&W 4046,) and a very different pristine magazine came with it. It fit and locked up but was obviously too long in the 4516. (I didn’t have any white follower magazines then.) I took the holster and magazine back saying that there was a mistake. Nope it all came in together.

It looked like a 4506 magazine so I replaced the white follower with a new yellow one and spring. Works great in the full size .45’s. I had saved/labeled everything in the box and put it back today after thinking about the OP.

Too weird that it had a white follower and 10mm marked base. Just wondering what someone might have been thinking. The double mag catch cuts also has me questioning.

Jim

Is there a reason not to think its an early prototype 1006 mag based on the 8rd 45 shell with a late 1006 white follower?
I have never seen "10mm" wording on plastic SW base, but guess I have to go back and look at my 9rd 1006/1076 mags with early yellow and late white followers.
Assuming you dont have a 10xx to try it in or any 10mm ammo to see if it will accept 9 rds of 10mm. (Picture borrowed from thread on 10mm Mags - not mine)

4T5GUY · #9 02-13-2024, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACEd

Is there a reason not to think its an early prototype 1006 mag based on the 8rd 45 shell with a late 1006 white follower?

Well, its tube is flat/smooth. It doesn’t have the tabs, (don’t know what to call them,) but I don’t have any 10mm’ s, S&W or other.

Jim

rosewood · #10 02-13-2024, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4T5GUY

Well, its tube is flat/smooth. It doesn’t have the tabs, (don’t know what to call them,) but I don’t have any 10mm’ s, S&W or other.

Jim

That is why I thought maybe an early prototype. I heard that is what was used in the early 10mms. I do know the 10mm mags are much more loose in the 45 frame than the 45 mags (and of course won't go in past that nub). I think I measured the thickness, but can't remember how much different they were.

The 45 mag will not go in the 10mm frame, too wide. Just tried this 2 days ago.

Rosewood

Sevens · #11 02-13-2024, 03:58 PM

BlueDot37 has the images of print magazine articles of the earliest views of prototype 10mm S&W pistols. If this mag were something early, seems strange to me that it would have the final evolution of the follower.

Maybe some previous owner just stuck parts inside it that were never intended for a .45 magazine… either in error or in some failed attempt to make do with what he had?

As for the 10mm identification on the floor plate… it is tiny, but inside the little smiley-face moon-shaped wedge on the bottom. Maybe some have never looked, but you can see it.

rosewood · #12 02-13-2024, 10:26 PM

There it is.

Col. Kurtz · #13 02-20-2024, 05:20 PM

I just picked up a clean 645. Came with one factory magazine but I would like to pick up a few more. Are there any recommendations for new reliable after market mags?

Mike 139 · #14 02-20-2024, 07:47 PM

Back in the late 80’s, I bought a 6450 for Duty use, I chose it because the only difference between it and the 4506 was the grip…The 4506 had a one piece Delrin wrap around grip held by a pin and I liked the two piece Grip secured with two screws on each panel better….They also had the Pachmayr rubber grips and I went with that option…

The Magazines came with Black Followers….I soon found out every time I had to pull a Mag out of the Carrier, the top round or two would jump out..I called S&W and they overnighted 6 New Magazines with Yellow Followers and a pre-paid label to return the black follower mags…A few years later, I bought a 4516-1 for off-duty and it too had a recall on the Black follower mags…. In the attached pic are both 6450/4506 And 4516-1 Mags….

Just a heads-up…The early one piece Delrin grip also had a recall…Simple to replace, just knock out the retaining pin and push up the Mainspring into the recess and press in place and replace retaining pin….Call S&W and advise the serial to see if Your’s is affected.

Edited to add…11-29-20, Originally Posted by Member Quikdraw67….post number 8….explains all the Mag revisions….

KurtC · #15 02-20-2024, 11:10 PM

4506 magazines went through various changes, mostly with the feed lips. That's why it's important to have the correct follower for the mag body.

The problem with the early yellow follower mags is that when you did a magazine save reload during qualification, the top round in the mag was partially stripped and would fly off.

The final and most reliable version is the one with a black follower and ES1 stamped on the front of the mag body.

ACEd · #16 02-21-2024, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike 139

Back in the late 80’s, I bought a 6450 for Duty use, I chose it because the only difference between it and the 4506 was the grip…The 4506 had a one piece Delrin wrap around grip held by a pin and I liked the two piece Grip secured with two screws on each panel better….They also had the Pachmayr rubber grips and I went with that option…

The Magazines came with Black Followers….I soon found out every time I had to pull a Mag out of the Carrier, the top round or two would jump out..I called S&W and they overnighted 6 New Magazines with Yellow Followers and a pre-paid label to return the black follower mags…A few years later, I bought a 4516-1 for off-duty and it too had a recall on the Black follower mags…. In the attached pic are both 6450/4506 And 4516-1 Mags….

Just a heads-up…The early one piece Delrin grip also had a recall…Simple to replace, just knock out the retaining pin and push up the Mainspring into the recess and press in place and replace retaining pin….Call S&W and advise the serial to see if Your’s is affected.

The black follower mags for the 4506 / 4516 did not come out until the 4516-2 came out around 1992 I believe and they were also marked ES1 on front. Not sure which magazines / followers you would have received with a 6450 in 1980s but it would not have been the late ES1 mags with the black followers that superseded the yellow followers which superseded the reddish orange followers.

Kenna · #17 02-21-2024, 08:42 PM

What was the issue with the orange followers on 4506, 645, 745 mags?? Thanks

ACEd · #18 02-22-2024, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenna

What was the issue with the orange followers on 4506, 645, 745 mags?? Thanks

As I understand the original issue was with a number of the models 4506 and 4516 failing to feed properly. These would have been with the original mag design which included the Orange followers. In theory those mags of the original design with the orange follower should ONLY be used in the no dash 4506/4516 pistols. (Though some have reported no problems in later pistols - it may depend on your pistol as the majority of the original no dash pistols with original orange follower mags apparently functioned with no issues.)

The problem was addressed with the redesign of both the internals of the pistols (4506-1 & 4516-1) and the introduction of the redesigned magazine lip geometry and the change to the yellow followers. These magazines were typically marked "4506-1 only" or "4516-1 only" and "must have yellow follower". These typically had a small D-shaped notch at the top in addition to minor changes to the feed lip.

There were variations in the magazines with yellow followers - some only marked "must have yellow follower" and "-D-" with the D-shaped notch but with no pistol use restriction.

Another iteration with yellow followers does not have the D-shaped notch at the top and is marked ES1 on the front and AccuGlide on the side but is NOT marked at all with respect to yellow follower or pistol use restrictions.

Apparently there were further issues at least with the 4516-1 which resulted in further changes to the pistol (4516-2) including a dual recoil spring as well as a further iteration to the magazine with the a new horizontal notch at the top, black follower, and ES1 markings and no model restriction.

After this redesign circa 1992/93 the 4506 pistols as well as the all the subsequent 45xx, 45xxTSW, 457, etc got the new magazine with the black follower which is not marked with any restrictions and is said to be backwards compatible.

My apologies on 3rd picture - the top of magazine appears to have a hump - it is the lettering on the box - nothing different from other magazines

surfgun · #19 02-22-2024, 08:51 PM

All 645 magazines held 8 rounds. The ones with stainless floorplate and followers run fine. I have never had any problems with the different generations of 645/745, 4506 magazines including orange followers.

Kenna · #20 02-22-2024, 10:48 PM

Guess I gotta find the gun now, got the mags!!!Thanks for all the help.

ACEd · #21 02-22-2024, 11:00 PM

I realize Pictures I posted are 4516 7 rd mags because I have more examples readily available with better pictures. The 4506 mags I have are similar.

As I understood the feed problems began with the 4506/4516. I am not aware of problems with 645/745 or other earlier 45 pistols most of which had the earlier metal base pre-4506/4516 mags.

And I realize some have had no problem with various mags in their pistols. I would not hesitate to use at the range - but…..

Kenna · #22 02-22-2024, 11:12 PM

Ill try and get a picture up of what I have in the next couple of days.
Somewhat tech challenged.

rosewood · #23 03-08-2024, 09:23 PM

Maybe this was covered above, but I was unable to glean from earlier post. Currently only the black followers are available for sale . Can a black follower be used reliably in either a yellow or orange follower mag? Has anyone changed the older mags to black follower? In a 4506 mag? In a 4516 mag? Would it be beneficial to "upgrade" to the black?

Thanks,

Rosewood

4T5GUY · #24 03-09-2024, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosewood

Has anyone changed the older mags to black follower? In a 4506 mag?

Yes for sure. Years ago when rebuilding my original 4506-1 magazines I replaced the yellow followers with black. There was no other choice that I found then. Now I see NOS yellow followers are available but they are more expensive than the black.

The black followers are flawless in the “must have yellow follower” marked magazines. The benefit of the black ones are the availability plus whatever upgraded design change.

Jim

HOUSTON RICK · #25 03-09-2024, 08:28 PM

I have a bunch of them and they all work great no matter what the follower.

ACEd · #26 03-09-2024, 09:35 PM

I think I read somewhere that it’s ok to replace old style followers with current - orange or yellow with black followers in the 4506/4516; yellow with blue in 40xx; yellow with white in 10xx. Only contrary was orange and yellow in 45’s not interchangeable.

Trooper224 · #27 03-14-2024, 01:59 PM

The color change in the follower denotes design changes in the mag body and floorplate. It's a quick reference color code.

Replacing your orange and yellow followers to black changes nothing. It's not an upgrade.

KurtC · #28 03-14-2024, 10:00 PM

The issue with the yellow follower magazines was the shape of the lips. I don't think changing followers solves the problem.

Dino1 · #29 03-15-2024, 06:07 PM

I picked these up a few years ago, black follower revised mags. Still have them in the packaging. Hell I have had the gun for 35 years and have yet to fire it.