New to Me: 5946 NYPD, Bent Sideplate?

[kbm6893]

Got a nice one today. I'm a retired member of that department and my local shop had this one in. I already have a few other 5946's, but I like the gun. Looked new in box, with 4 mags, and all paperwork. Even had receipt from the Equipment Section. Buyer was born in 1934 and had an 842 tax number. Likely came on in the 50's and mandatory retirement in 1997. He bought the gun on 9/5/97, probably to get the free 9MM on his way out the door, because he bought it 3 months after his 63'rd birthday.

Broke it down and cleaned it. I notice the top of the sideplate, right behind the slide stop, is slightly bowed outward. I know I didn't bend it getting the grips off. None of my other 5946's are like this. Normal? Something to worry about?

Anyway, here are the obligatory pics:

[Heymatt]

Looks a little bent out of shape. Should be able to straighten that out easily enough.

[gmborkovic]

Hello kbm, I know its irritating. Two ways to pursue, live with it or buy a new part. Dont sit there and stew.

[NY-1]

The previous owner must've had one hell of a career, or got themselves into a gig that was just too good to leave. Congratulations on the acquisition!

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

Hello kbm, I know its irritating. Two ways to pursue, live with it or buy a new part. Dont sit there and stew.

A little bugged but not much. Don't know how to bend it back into shape, and I'm pretty sure sideplates have to be fitted, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe wrap it with something so the plate is flush and let sit for a few weeks like that?

Hardly ever gonna shoot it. Bought for nostalgia, really. Pretty cool finding the receipt in the case. Lots of guys leaving the job would get their free 9MM before they retired. Only had to pay for night sights. Total was about $65 for them. Doubt he even bought a holster and belt for it. He must have had 40 years on the job. Worked in Mid-Town South, a cushy command. I believe detective bureau because under Command it read "MTS-D".

[GaryS]

Side plates aren't fitted, they are an snap in swap. If you want to try to straighten it, the best way is to remove the side plate from the gun.

Either way, they can be a bit fiddly to get back in as they hold several different components in place.

This video shows how it goes back in.

S&W 3RD GENERATION REASSEMBLY (FRAME) VIDEO #4 OF 4 - YouTube

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by GaryS

Side plates aren't fitted, they are an snap in swap. If you want to try to straighten it, the best way is to remove the side plate from the gun.

Either way, they can be a bit fiddly to get back in as they hold several different components in place.

This video shows how it goes back in.

S&W 3RD GENERATION REASSEMBLY (FRAME) VIDEO #4 OF 4 - YouTube

Yeah. I e seen that video. Bit hesitant to break down the frame. Did it many years ago using that video and I invented new curse words by combining multiple curse words.

[cherrypointmarine]

I bought one here , the same as yours , a few years back . The guy even included an NYPD patch which I thought was really nice of him .

I also have one from Brinks , which is really clean considering the time they spend in holsters .

I'm not a fan of DAO , but recently I find myself shooting them more . I also have a non TSW 5946 , 4043 and a 4586 . Once you get the feel for that trigger , they are really not bad .

[GaryS]

I did one on a 457 some years ago. I guess "fiddly" is an understatement. Even using and improvised stand so that I have both hands free to hold parts in place and manipulate the tools it tool a long time.

Originally Posted by kbm6893

Yeah. I e seen that video. Bit hesitant to break down the frame. Did it many years ago using that video and I invented new curse words by combining multiple curse words.

My understanding is that the DAO trigger feel was intended to duplicate the DA trigger feel of the K frame revolvers. Which makes some sense if you consider that departments were transitioning from revolvers to semi autos at the time these were made.

In a big department like NYPD that meant a lot of officers had to go through training. Using a semi auto with a similar trigger feel probably made the training easier.

Originally Posted by cherrypointmarine

I'm not a fan of DAO , but recently I find myself shooting them more . I also have a non TSW 5946 , 4043 and a 4586 . Once you get the feel for that trigger , they are really not bad .

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by cherrypointmarine

I bought one here , the same as yours , a few years back . The guy even included an NYPD patch which I thought was really nice of him .

I also have one from Brinks , which is really clean considering the time they spend in holsters .

I'm not a fan of DAO , but recently I find myself shooting them more . I also have a non TSW 5946 , 4043 and a 4586 . Once you get the feel for that trigger , they are really not bad .

Yeah. I carried a 5946 on the job. I never liked DAO much, either, but I now have 3 5946’s(all PD guns), a 6946, a 3953TSW(another NYPD gun), and a standard 3953. I’ve come to really like the DAO guns. Only have two standard DA/SA guns now, a 5906 and a 4566.

[ACEd]

Originally Posted by kbm6893

Yeah. I e seen that video. Bit hesitant to break down the frame. Did it many years ago using that video and I invented new curse words by combining multiple curse words.

I've had to address sideplate issues twice - a bit tricky but not bad if you use a punch the same diameter in both holes from the right side feeding punches in as you remove sideplate pins from left side to keep parts in place.

Not a major disassembly unless you want to - pull the grips and gently remove sideplate using punches then reverse procedure with new or straightened sideplate - Had to jiggle a bit on second one but really no big problem on either.
New sideplates readily available - not a custom fit.

[BigBoku]

Nice grab and totally understand the nostalgia! We used to see this quite often at gun check in Bldg 10.

The bent side plate typically happens when the grip is removed for cleaning and subsequently not reinserted properly from the bottom up.

Hey, If your in the area visiting swing by the shop with some Joe and the guys will gladly replace it and give the gun a once over.

Stay Safe,
BB

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by BigBoku

KBM6893 we used to see this quite often at gun check in Bldg 10.

The bent side plate typically happens when the grip is removed for cleaning and subsequently not reinserted properly from the bottom up.

Hey, If your in the area visiting swing by the shop with some Joe and the guys will gladly replace it and give the gun a once over.

Stay Safe,
BB

Really? They’d just let me in if I showed my ID? I assume Mon-Fri on a day tour?

Funny thing is I can’t believe the grip was ever off. The gun had been fired, and was dirty, but not a mark on the grips or the rest of the gun. Looked to be hastily cleaned with Hoppes but lots of residue under the grips so I doubt the owner took them off.

842 tax number. Must have some stories. Getting the gun on his way out the door to retirement and a MTS command. The command read MTS-D. Detective? Boss? That kind of time on I doubt a white shield.

[BigBoku]

100% as I was taught the next generation was also taught to take care of retirees because that’s what we all hope to make it too.

Could also have been caused by a cloth or patch getting caught on the corner of or behind the side plate during cleaning.

842 Tax,he was aging out in 1997 when I was just hitting top pay lol, MTS PDU is still a great gig!

If I’m around I would even meet up with you that day, I have a orphan Safariland 6360ALS for the 5946 I can give you if your a righty.

Yep same hours M-F 2nd and 3rd Platoon.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by BigBoku

100% as I was taught the next generation was also taught to take care of retirees because that’s what we all hope to make it too.

Could also have been caused by a cloth or patch getting caught on the corner of or behind the side plate during cleaning.

842 Tax,he was aging out in 1997 when I was just hitting top pay lol, MTS PDU is still a great gig!

If I’m around I would even meet up with you that day, I have a orphan Safariland 6360ALS for the 5946 I can give you if your a righty.

Yep same hours M-F 2nd and 3rd Platoon.

That’s great to know! I’ll have to make my way down there. I still have my old duty holster, the first ones that were phased out due to the pistol grabs. The ones the LAPD didn’t want so they sold them to us in a fire sale! The front strap is about to break in half and is unusable. I was looking for the ALS one but the 5946 is so long phased out thst nobody has them. I am a righty. Very generous of you!

[BigBoku]

No worries, it’s yours and I am glad it will be put to good use.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by BigBoku

No worries, it’s yours and I am glad it will be put to good use.

I’ll shoot you a PM when I can get down there. I’d be more than happy to pay shipping if you wanted to mail it if we couldn’t meet up. Thanks again.

[jimmyj]

Dump Question from a Dummy :
Where is the sideplate on a semi-auto pistol ?

[GaryS]

Watch the video I posted in this thread.

Originally Posted by jimmyj

Dump Question from a Dummy :
Where is the sideplate on a semi-auto pistol ?

[Fastbolt]

Howdy. Congrats on the LNIB NYPD 5946 find.

Without being able to actually handle and examine it, I can only offer a couple speculative thoughts on my experience with a lot of other 3rd gen guns.

First, the sideplate being allowed to flex slightly outward might have more to do with the way the grip fits on that side of the frame, meaning allowing some extra room for the plate to stand proud from the frame. Sometimes a grip might not fit snugly against the left side of the frame.

Secondly, as long as the front of the plate isn't sticking so far outward that it allows the slide stop lever's plunger to slip off the plate, to the inside, and no longer support the plunger, it wouldn't worry me overly much.

I've seen my fair share of 3rd gen guns where the front arm of the side plate stood out a little proud from the frame (due to the way the grip wasn't snug). The guns ran just fine in normal operation.

However, can you grasp the top and bottom edge of the front of the side plate with your finger tips and GENTLY try to wiggle it up and down? Does it have excessive movement up & down, or is it stationary against gentle finger tip pressure to move it?

Usually when a side plate is damaged (improper grip installation), it's the little rear prong, of the pair that snaps over the sear pin head, that gets bent (to the rear) or broken off. This allows the front end of the side plate to lift upward, which causes the loss of proper tension between the side plate and the slide stop lever's plunger. The angle of the front of the side plate is what keeps the slide stop lever in the 'down' position until the force of the mag follower and mag spring lifts it upward on an empty mag.

Just to show how subtle a change in the front plate's angle can be, here's a couple pics of the older and newer 4506/1006 side plate angles. They increased the angle just a bit to better help keep the slide stop from rising under recoil.




Just some thoughts.

[kbm6893]

Originally Posted by Fastbolt

Howdy. Congrats on the LNIB NYPD 5946 find.

Without being able to actually handle and examine it, I can only offer a couple speculative thoughts on my experience with a lot of other 3rd gen guns.

First, the sideplate being allowed to flex slightly outward might have more to do with the way the grip fits on that side of the frame, meaning allowing some extra room for the plate to stand proud from the frame. Sometimes a grip might not fit snugly against the left side of the frame.

Secondly, as long as the front of the plate isn't sticking so far outward that it allows the slide stop lever's plunger to slip off the plate, to the inside, and no longer support the plunger, it wouldn't worry me overly much.

I've seen my fair share of 3rd gen guns where the front arm of the side plate stood out a little proud from the frame (due to the way the grip wasn't snug). The guns ran just fine in normal operation.

However, can you grasp the top and bottom edge of the front of the side plate with your finger tips and GENTLY try to wiggle it up and down? Does it have excessive movement up & down, or is it stationary against gentle finger tip pressure to move it?

Usually when a side plate is damaged (improper grip installation), it's the little rear prong, of the pair that snaps over the sear pin head, that gets bent (to the rear) or broken off. This allows the front end of the side plate to lift upward, which causes the loss of proper tension between the side plate and the slide stop lever's plunger. The angle of the front of the side plate is what keeps the slide stop lever in the 'down' position until the force of the mag follower and mag spring lifts it upward on an empty mag.

Just to show how subtle a change in the front plate's angle can be, here's a couple pics of the older and newer 4506/1006 side plate angles. They increased the angle just a bit to better help keep the slide stop from rising under recoil.




Just some thoughts.

No movement up and down. I can press it in towards the frame and it will move in and then back out when I release it.

The grip not being flushed is not the answer, I don't think, because with the grip off the plate still juts out a bit.

I might pick up a couple of sideplates, just to have them. This is now my 3rd 5946, and I also have a 5906. I assume same part number. Couldn't hurt to have them on hand. And I'm eventually gonna take a ride down to the outdoor range and have the guys look at it.

[gmborkovic]

What a piece of **** part. A solid pin with a sheet metal slide stop attached? Do all the 3rd gen guns use this part?

[Fastbolt]

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

What a piece of **** part. A solid pin with a sheet metal slide stop attached? Do all the 3rd gen guns use this part?

The pressed pin in the heavy gauge stamped body is an arguable design improvement over the pressed stud in the frame of the early design. It's pretty robust ... unless someone doesn't pay attention when replacing a factory grip.

The primary risk of damaging the 3rd gen side plate is when someone doesn't pay proper attention when installing the factory grip, and snags the bottom of the front extension with the left/front edge of the grip, and puts improper upward pressure on the extension. That's what can cause the prongs (around the headed sear pin) to become tweaked, warped or broken).

The other major source of risk of damaging a side plate is from someone making a mistake trying to remove or install a side plate, meaning either by inattention, or lack of knowledge in how to properly do it.

Sure, I've seen the rare side plate assembly where the pressed pin had become loose in the side plate body, but those were in old duty guns that had seen many years of use. I only noticed it when inspecting a gun, not because the owner/user was reporting any functioning problems. I replaced the side plates where the pins had become loose enough to turn in the plate body because they were no longer in original factory spec, and we kept a (very) few of them in our spare parts.

We used 3rd gen guns from '89-16, which included both early production 3rd gen guns, and then their late production TSW replacements. Approx 1000 guns over the years, because we weren't a particularly large agency as far as West Coast agencies go. The number of side plates I saw replaced during all that time was less than the fingers on both hands, and those were mostly due to someone having not paid attention when replacing grips, or not knowing how to replace the factory grips.

I'd not rule out one of our 'less attentive' or 'less experienced' armorers on-staff causing damage to one of them now or again, either. Not everyone who goes through an armorer class is there because they want to be there. Sometimes it's just another assignment where someone thinks they can get by investing the least amount they think they can get away with doing.

I've actually met the occasional cop student in an armorer class who said they were there out of punishment, and they had virtually no interest in doing anything more than needed to pass the class. Let's be charitable and just say that over the many years of armorer classes I've attended, there were quite a few of the people in the classes I'd not have wished to ever service or repair a gun upon which my life might rely.

Just my own thoughts.