10mm Auto For Bear Defense
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somecomeget
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10mm bear defense
The G20, is the only 10mm with a reputation well enough to be suggested unequivocally for several reasons, 1. Functional Reliability, 2. Ease of Use, 3. Stopping Power, 4. Fire Power, 5. Versatility, 6. Availability, 7. Cost. The bullets that function well in an autoloader are generally smooth rounded nosed bullets, Gold Dot satisfies all the contraints for this model. Weight in grains, Shape, Structural Integrity, Feed Reliability, Availability, Performance. I encourage all to check out Gold Dot's Web Site. So, I would recommend for someone using the G20, to hand load the Gold Dot bullet to it's max or just under max velocity, I personnaly prefer the 180grain JHP bonded, with 10.5 grains of BLUE DOT, and having the C.O.L. being almost perfect for reliability in the 10mm or G20, have probably 2 or more extra 15 round magazines, that giving one a 16 round capacity, with the ability to reload smooth, and that would at least put one in the game. This is a backup, to your 12GA minimum long gun. Any arguments?
The G20, is the only 10mm with a reputation well enough to be suggested unequivocally for several reasons, 1. Functional Reliability, 2. Ease of Use, 3. Stopping Power, 4. Fire Power, 5. Versatility, 6. Availability, 7. Cost. The bullets that function well in an autoloader are generally smooth rounded nosed bullets, Gold Dot satisfies all the contraints for this model. Weight in grains, Shape, Structural Integrity, Feed Reliability, Availability, Performance. I encourage all to check out Gold Dot's Web Site. So, I would recommend for someone using the G20, to hand load the Gold Dot bullet to it's max or just under max velocity, I personnaly prefer the 180grain JHP bonded, with 10.5 grains of BLUE DOT, and having the C.O.L. being almost perfect for reliability in the 10mm or G20, have probably 2 or more extra 15 round magazines, that giving one a 16 round capacity, with the ability to reload smooth, and that would at least put one in the game. This is a backup, to your 12GA minimum long gun. Any arguments?
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somecomeget
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10mm bear defense
Did you research anything? It's okay, if you didn't, but it's funny you are so hard headed about it, when so many people agree that the G20 is a very real and feasible option for bear defense, besides not all bears weight 1200 pounds, only world record bears, most bears depending on the breed weight, anywhere from 250lbs on up to 900lbs, where ususally people encounter bears around 400pounds being a big one. I have seen probably 4 bears in the wild, three looked so small I didn't understand why people worried, but the fourth was a big-n, I had a 10mm on my hip and a 30-06 in my hands, don't get me wrong, I didn't feel adequately equipped, but no .454 casull would have made me feel better either, the truth is, you will never feel good about it, no matter what you carry, the question is, can you survive with a 10mm as a backup, and the answer is yes, so don't be such a scardy cat, friend. Or stay home.
Did you research anything? It's okay, if you didn't, but it's funny you are so hard headed about it, when so many people agree that the G20 is a very real and feasible option for bear defense, besides not all bears weight 1200 pounds, only world record bears, most bears depending on the breed weight, anywhere from 250lbs on up to 900lbs, where ususally people encounter bears around 400pounds being a big one. I have seen probably 4 bears in the wild, three looked so small I didn't understand why people worried, but the fourth was a big-n, I had a 10mm on my hip and a 30-06 in my hands, don't get me wrong, I didn't feel adequately equipped, but no .454 casull would have made me feel better either, the truth is, you will never feel good about it, no matter what you carry, the question is, can you survive with a 10mm as a backup, and the answer is yes, so don't be such a scardy cat, friend. Or stay home.
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somecomeget
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10mm bear defense
I prize my G20, I am completely confident in it, I have shot so many rounds of ammunition through it that I know that firearms capabilities, I have owned about three of them, I sometimes carry two of them, I have shot Federal, Hornady, Cor-Bon, Hydra Shok, Gold Dot, Hi Shok, I have been elk hunting many o times with it, and I guarantee you, that firearm, will rock when it comes time, and it will go bang when you most sincerely need it to, I had it when I encountered those bears, which have never even so much as bothered me with a sniff, realistically, but I had it. I carry it, I love it, I trust it, and Mr. Bear will meet it, if Mr. Bear wants some. I do however possess a little more skill than the average person, so I'd probably operate a little smarter, making it work. Besides, I'm a hunter, I generally try to see them first anyway. So, for someone like me, it's adequate; for someone who is not outdoors oriented, what would work? Maybe Nothing. It's a skill not a tool that makes you win. Besides I carry a rifle when I hunt. I carry my G20 for Lions, mostly, because lions are more dangerous than bears where I'm from and things that go roar in the night whatever animal gets nasty. I have night sights. Does that revolver have night sights? I didn't think so. The way I'd defend myself from a bear is with intelligence, not just a big stick. The 10mm is a backup, self defense tool, that is there even when your rifle may not be, and the Magnum revolver you are talking about is so heavy, who'd carry it, 24-7? I did go look at a .460 not too long ago, it was $1100 dollars for a revolver, and it was so heavy, when I tried to aim it, I could only hold it on target for a very short time before the weight alone toasted my upper body strength. Then on top of that, it is SOO... loud and kicks so hard that no-one enjoys practicing with it, it's horrible. Now for a woman, it's almost just not even an option.
I prize my G20, I am completely confident in it, I have shot so many rounds of ammunition through it that I know that firearms capabilities, I have owned about three of them, I sometimes carry two of them, I have shot Federal, Hornady, Cor-Bon, Hydra Shok, Gold Dot, Hi Shok, I have been elk hunting many o times with it, and I guarantee you, that firearm, will rock when it comes time, and it will go bang when you most sincerely need it to, I had it when I encountered those bears, which have never even so much as bothered me with a sniff, realistically, but I had it. I carry it, I love it, I trust it, and Mr. Bear will meet it, if Mr. Bear wants some. I do however possess a little more skill than the average person, so I'd probably operate a little smarter, making it work. Besides, I'm a hunter, I generally try to see them first anyway. So, for someone like me, it's adequate; for someone who is not outdoors oriented, what would work? Maybe Nothing. It's a skill not a tool that makes you win. Besides I carry a rifle when I hunt. I carry my G20 for Lions, mostly, because lions are more dangerous than bears where I'm from and things that go roar in the night whatever animal gets nasty. I have night sights. Does that revolver have night sights? I didn't think so. The way I'd defend myself from a bear is with intelligence, not just a big stick. The 10mm is a backup, self defense tool, that is there even when your rifle may not be, and the Magnum revolver you are talking about is so heavy, who'd carry it, 24-7? I did go look at a .460 not too long ago, it was $1100 dollars for a revolver, and it was so heavy, when I tried to aim it, I could only hold it on target for a very short time before the weight alone toasted my upper body strength. Then on top of that, it is SOO... loud and kicks so hard that no-one enjoys practicing with it, it's horrible. Now for a woman, it's almost just not even an option.
bk43
Member
Chuck Hawks is a full of himself idiot that comes up every now and then. No credentials, no experience, no credibility. The tool even gives himself awards because nobody else will. Read his article on S&W for stunning stupidity and outright misinformation.
On topic, I call anyone who carries a handgun for Alaskan bears lunch, which is what they are destined to be. If carrying one makes you feel good, that's fine. Just be aware that the chances of it actually working are slim to none.
Bob
On topic, I call anyone who carries a handgun for Alaskan bears lunch, which is what they are destined to be. If carrying one makes you feel good, that's fine. Just be aware that the chances of it actually working are slim to none.
Bob
Evil One
Member
PENETRATION
I dont want anything expanding and slowing itself down on dangerous game.
If and when time comes that a person HAS to defend themselves in a life and death situation, the HEAVY pistols are light, monster recoil isnt really noticed, and usually they dont even hear it go off.
I work all over the country, and when I am going out in the woods I carry nothing less than a .44 magnum with at a minimum of 240 gr hunting loads.
I feel much better with a keith hardcast.
If I know there is a chance of an encounter I have a 12 ga with slugs, brenneke black magics.
My wife shoots my .44 for fun and is looking at an alaskan as her next purchase.
Bug guns, big HARD projectiles, and most importantly... avoiding having to use them.
Jim
I dont want anything expanding and slowing itself down on dangerous game.
If and when time comes that a person HAS to defend themselves in a life and death situation, the HEAVY pistols are light, monster recoil isnt really noticed, and usually they dont even hear it go off.
I work all over the country, and when I am going out in the woods I carry nothing less than a .44 magnum with at a minimum of 240 gr hunting loads.
I feel much better with a keith hardcast.
If I know there is a chance of an encounter I have a 12 ga with slugs, brenneke black magics.
My wife shoots my .44 for fun and is looking at an alaskan as her next purchase.
Bug guns, big HARD projectiles, and most importantly... avoiding having to use them.
Jim
somecomeget
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10mm bear defense
I forgot to mention, I knew a man who was mauled by a bear and I asked him about it, he shot the bear with a .300 win mag, three times, and the bear still put his ass literally this man was in the bears mouth at about the hip, the man I'm speaking of, clearly lived to tell about it. Bear defense is actions going in and going out, it's not this dream that people have where the biggest bear that ever lived, charges without warning and from behind, remember how rare that really is, that being said, a person who is aware of his surroundings can effectively defend himself with a G20, if he needs to climb a tree, or dodge behind his truck in the process, so be it. As I see it, bear defense is a strategy, tactic and skill. You can have a .300 win mag and still get eaten. Once that bear gets on top those long guns are hard to point. Even when that gat is 6 or 7 inches. It's hard.
I forgot to mention, I knew a man who was mauled by a bear and I asked him about it, he shot the bear with a .300 win mag, three times, and the bear still put his ass literally this man was in the bears mouth at about the hip, the man I'm speaking of, clearly lived to tell about it. Bear defense is actions going in and going out, it's not this dream that people have where the biggest bear that ever lived, charges without warning and from behind, remember how rare that really is, that being said, a person who is aware of his surroundings can effectively defend himself with a G20, if he needs to climb a tree, or dodge behind his truck in the process, so be it. As I see it, bear defense is a strategy, tactic and skill. You can have a .300 win mag and still get eaten. Once that bear gets on top those long guns are hard to point. Even when that gat is 6 or 7 inches. It's hard.
Evil One
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Snubby bear gats...
Jim
Jim
somecomeget
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10mm bear defense
A man and woman reported that they were hiking Friday evening when the bear emerged from trailside brush and charged the woman, park spokeswoman Kris Fister said in a statement.
The man fired nine rounds from his .45 caliber, semiautomatic pistol at the animal, which then stopped and walked into the brush.
The two reported the shooting to rangers, who restricted access to the Igloo Canyon area for fear that the bear was wounded and dangerous.
On Saturday, rangers found the dead bear about 100 feet from the shooting site.
Park officials are determining the justification for the shooting. It's legal to carry firearms in that area of the park but illegal to discharge them.
A man and woman reported that they were hiking Friday evening when the bear emerged from trailside brush and charged the woman, park spokeswoman Kris Fister said in a statement.
The man fired nine rounds from his .45 caliber, semiautomatic pistol at the animal, which then stopped and walked into the brush.
The two reported the shooting to rangers, who restricted access to the Igloo Canyon area for fear that the bear was wounded and dangerous.
On Saturday, rangers found the dead bear about 100 feet from the shooting site.
Park officials are determining the justification for the shooting. It's legal to carry firearms in that area of the park but illegal to discharge them.
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Evil One
Member
And I have seen a cat attack a rottweiler and run it off.
Doesnt mean its a good idea.
Jim
Doesnt mean its a good idea.
Jim
LOL, or that it's going to turn out the same way every time.
oldRoger
US Veteran
After the Bear is through with me and they are gathering my remains, I certainly would not want to be buried with a Glock. I would not even be able to haunt this forum.
I will go down with my S&W 1006 blazing, lead Keith Bullets and all, thank you very much!
I will go down with my S&W 1006 blazing, lead Keith Bullets and all, thank you very much!
somecomeget
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10mm bear defense
I tested the idea of the revolver on my girl friend, I found out some profound down falls I would never have forseen with just hypothesis,.. So, here is the story.. a little insight anyway.. I convinced her to carry one for a day, well, to try it. I took her to the hills and I realized quickly that I had to show her EVERYTHING, specific to revolver, she has safety down.. but the techniques specific to revolver or reloading, of pulling a DA trigger (as well as cocking for accuracy if there is time) oh and the safe decocking technique they teach in the NRA, where you place the thumb in the gap, and of the draw and speed loaders, but primarily all else fails type of stuff; this is second nature to me, but to her it was complicated.. she's like you have to do what with your left hand, and what with your right, and what button do I push to get the "thingy out", and by the end of the day she was able to perform the basics, but she almost couldn't pull the trigger back, because the grip was too big, the tip of her finger barely reached, so consequentially she was not strong enough to pull the double action more than about twice, on the third pull she couldn't get the trigger to pull back in DA mode!! I have to admit, it was just not a good fit, also she couldn't draw it fast enough for a charging bear, I tested her by simulating a charging bear, I said pretend I'm a bear, I had her not point at me.. but had her point off another direction with it unloaded as well, I rushed her from a few yards away... just to see if she could draw it, she couldn't get it out of it's holster!! And it's a snapless, kydex holster with very little frictional resistance, but here is what she said at the end of the day.. "can I carry my glock?, I hate that thing it weights me down too much." She took it off and handed it to me, so I gave it back saying no, just try it out, she pushes it back and would not wear it so I said okay. Now guys; What would you prefer, a woman carrying what she wants, or a woman who leaves it in the car, camp, truck etc.. We are talking about women here. They don't seem to like revolvers and now I understand why. This last point kills me though, to my horror, I noticed that she didn't understand that the cylinder had to lock into place.. I did an ops check, pre hike, to my amazement, found out she didn't close the cylinder correctly, she was carrying a non functional firearm because the cylinder was not clicked into place... It was ridiculous what all issues manifested. Keep in mind she never shot a revolver before and is not a gun person. That is why I like the glock, it's almost idiot proof. Almost. At least she was way more proficient with it. Guys don't forget that not all people are gun nuts. I am amazed at how much she proclaimed time and again how much she hated that revolver and it was only a .357MAG, S&W model 520. Not like a .454 casull or, .460 or .500. There are so many things that can go wrong in a bear charge, what happened above was under no stress.
I tested the idea of the revolver on my girl friend, I found out some profound down falls I would never have forseen with just hypothesis,.. So, here is the story.. a little insight anyway.. I convinced her to carry one for a day, well, to try it. I took her to the hills and I realized quickly that I had to show her EVERYTHING, specific to revolver, she has safety down.. but the techniques specific to revolver or reloading, of pulling a DA trigger (as well as cocking for accuracy if there is time) oh and the safe decocking technique they teach in the NRA, where you place the thumb in the gap, and of the draw and speed loaders, but primarily all else fails type of stuff; this is second nature to me, but to her it was complicated.. she's like you have to do what with your left hand, and what with your right, and what button do I push to get the "thingy out", and by the end of the day she was able to perform the basics, but she almost couldn't pull the trigger back, because the grip was too big, the tip of her finger barely reached, so consequentially she was not strong enough to pull the double action more than about twice, on the third pull she couldn't get the trigger to pull back in DA mode!! I have to admit, it was just not a good fit, also she couldn't draw it fast enough for a charging bear, I tested her by simulating a charging bear, I said pretend I'm a bear, I had her not point at me.. but had her point off another direction with it unloaded as well, I rushed her from a few yards away... just to see if she could draw it, she couldn't get it out of it's holster!! And it's a snapless, kydex holster with very little frictional resistance, but here is what she said at the end of the day.. "can I carry my glock?, I hate that thing it weights me down too much." She took it off and handed it to me, so I gave it back saying no, just try it out, she pushes it back and would not wear it so I said okay. Now guys; What would you prefer, a woman carrying what she wants, or a woman who leaves it in the car, camp, truck etc.. We are talking about women here. They don't seem to like revolvers and now I understand why. This last point kills me though, to my horror, I noticed that she didn't understand that the cylinder had to lock into place.. I did an ops check, pre hike, to my amazement, found out she didn't close the cylinder correctly, she was carrying a non functional firearm because the cylinder was not clicked into place... It was ridiculous what all issues manifested. Keep in mind she never shot a revolver before and is not a gun person. That is why I like the glock, it's almost idiot proof. Almost. At least she was way more proficient with it. Guys don't forget that not all people are gun nuts. I am amazed at how much she proclaimed time and again how much she hated that revolver and it was only a .357MAG, S&W model 520. Not like a .454 casull or, .460 or .500. There are so many things that can go wrong in a bear charge, what happened above was under no stress.
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flyandscuba
Member
Gotta love these "what if bear attack" threads. Bottom line, carry whatever firearm and ammunition you choose. If it works, you live another day -- if it doesn't...well, we'll be reading about you in the news.
If you're sold on Gold Dot JHPs in a Glock 20 as a bear defense sidearm -- have at it. I'll be carrying a 12 ga. with slugs and a sidearm with the heaviest SOLID bullets available for the particular caliber. I love my 10mm pistols, but I expect I'll be carrying a 44 magnum with 320gr. WFN Hardcast loads as a sidearm. If I did happen to take a 10mm, it would be loaded with the 230gr WFN Hardcast, not some JHP intended for two-legged predators...
If you're sold on Gold Dot JHPs in a Glock 20 as a bear defense sidearm -- have at it. I'll be carrying a 12 ga. with slugs and a sidearm with the heaviest SOLID bullets available for the particular caliber. I love my 10mm pistols, but I expect I'll be carrying a 44 magnum with 320gr. WFN Hardcast loads as a sidearm. If I did happen to take a 10mm, it would be loaded with the 230gr WFN Hardcast, not some JHP intended for two-legged predators...
Nope. Some of your points are interesting, but the Blocks don't fit my hand. The S&W 10mm autos do, don't kick much, and work. So the Block can NOT be recommended unequivocally, and perhaps one of the S&W's can.
YMMV.
somecomeget
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10mm bear defense
You can quote me on the quote unquote.. but you may want to clarify because unequivocal endoresement is mine, not yours. Lol, unless you feel like giving my oppinion to me.
You can quote me on the quote unquote.. but you may want to clarify because unequivocal endoresement is mine, not yours. Lol, unless you feel like giving my oppinion to me.
Jst1mr
Member
10MM = ~same muzzle energy as a .22 Hornet....Have fun!
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