12 gauge ammo advice

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agent00

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I want to get a shotgun for self defense and fun Shooting soon. It is going to be a Baikal 12 gauge Coach gun to be precise.

I did already some Research online an the ammo sutuation is quite good. There are many rounds available. The Reduced recoil rounds would be especially interesting. We can even get them in Austria.

But they are way more expensive than the Standard rounds. Now I wonder if they really offer similar Performance than full power 12 gauge 00 buckshot rounds or is that just more Marketing than real life Performance?

Have 12 gauge rounds with a smaller shot size (I think the smallest size recommended r self defense us is #4 ??) a bit less recoil than the 00 gauge rounds are are they similar?


I ask about the recoil because my experience with shotguns is limited. No experience with the Full power 12 gauge stuff at all but I own and shot a single shot 28 gauge gun very often for fun Shooting. Now I want to get into the bigger stuff and want to have a 12 gauge gun for fun Shooting and home defense.

It would be pleasant to have some cheaper rounds that are suitable for target work and in an case of emergency for home defense as well. So the tactical rounds would not be the first choice, they were just limited for home defense but If do offer some benefits over the other rounds available out there I would consider buying them..
 
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12 gauge low recoil low noise law enforcement rounds work well and are very affordable, as in cheap.(in the USA) I use them as practice rounds and home defense loads. Nobody is going to question if a load of 00 buck is going 900fps or 1200fps...;) I shoot over 5K rounds of 12 gauge a year..it is my favorite firearm.
 
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My dept began issuing low recoil Winchester ammo in 12 ga about 20 years ago. A full power duty load has a velocity of about 1500 fps. The low recoil about 1200 fps. Not a lot of difference but still more than enough speed to do the job. The low recoil 00 buck load reduced the loading by 1 pellet. What we did find was the patterns with the low recoil were much tighter. As an example, with a full power load at over 25 yards the pattern was usually wide enough that 1 or 2 pellets would often miss the target. But at the same distance the low recoil pattern would be about the size of a person's head. Much tighter group.
For those who were recoil sensitive the low recoil was easier to teach new shooters. Follow up shots were a lot quicker.
I tried a 1 oz foster slug low recoil deer hunting one year to compare to the regular power 1 oz foster slug. I couldn't tell any difference on the deer. The low power 1 oz foster went clear thru the deer on a broadside shot and the damage inflicted didn't look any difference from a full power load. I deer isn't not a valid test but it shows that at least the low power load has enough energy that it will go broadside thru a deer which is thicker than a person.
 
No matter what ammo you use or shotgun you buy........

The #1 thing any gunner needs to do is make sure they get or have.......
a good fit with the stock.

Weight will reduce recoil but a bad fit brings in many problems
that need to be addressed.

If it shoots high/low or to the side, you might need a "Smith" to
fit the weapon to you, for best results.

Tight groups.
 
Shot size will not affect recoil, weight of shot charge will.

Common thinking is #4 is best for home defense, but as bigwheelzip pointed out pattern performance must be considered as well.

Whatever you decide on be sure to shoot it a lot so it will be real familiar to you; hard to think of the next step when seconds count!
 
I have my HD shotgun loaded with #4 buckshot. I don't have any long shots in my house. When I venture out into the unpredictable world I load it with #00 buckshot. Practice often in unusual situations and be prepared.
 
IF the ammo has the same payload and the same velocity, regardless of shot size, the recoil will be the same - that is Newton and you're not changing it.

Personally, I like a semi for hotter loads as the gas action elongates the recoil pulse just enough to soften the hard jolt to a strong push in its effect on your shoulder.

Shot size is a personal decision, but for HD, bigger tends to be better, especially if your assailants are wearing a lot of clothes (it DOES get cold in Austria this time of year). That said, a load of #2 to the face or knee cap will typically incapacitate the intruder, so go accordingly.
 
For close ranges inside a home. #2 (US size) is probably the best due to reduced penetration of walls, etc., and is very effective at across-the-room distances. If that's not a consideration I'd go with #4 Buck - many more shot than 00 Buck (8 or 9), and each pellet will be effective, reasonably close to a .22 LR bullet. Shoot someone with a .22 rifle 27 times, and he will go down permanently.
 
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I have two of the ex police 870 shotguns one has an 18" barrel and the other a 20" barrel and both are cylinder bore. Butt pads were like rocks and replaced them with limbsaver slip on recoil pads. Fairly rural here so some distances between houses. For social purposes I favor 0000 buckshot. Though I do have some old remington 1oz slug loads. The latter I won't use in the house even though there is a good distance here between houses. Took the two 870's to the range to see how they shoot to the sights. As I didn't want to destroy any target frames the RO allowed me to just shoot at the berm @ 15'. No stranger to 12 guage shotguns as have used them for deer and squirrels. Sufficed to say the 0000 and the slugs shot to the sights and the results confirmed my expetations. Frank
 
Thanks a lot for the replies. They are really helpful. As some of you guys already pointed it it is really important to check out how accurate the different loads will work in the baikal. So I need to buy many different loads to test them. I also need to find out how recoil sensitive I am and if the 00 buckshot is really kicking that much as some People say.

As I said in shotgun territory I am just familiar with 28 gauge rounds. The full power 28 gauge rounds from Fioochi are not kicking that bad, but I am Aware that the Little 28 gauge cannot be compared with a much more powerful 12 gauge round.
 
Smaller Shot Sizes

For years, the U.S. Secret Service used #4 buck in their 12s. That's 27 pellets, each of .22 caliber. I would not hesitate to use this load if over-penetration is an issue and another wood-frame house sits across the driveway from your home.

Even #4 shot will ruin a miscreant's day. Hunting accidents during turkey season, where #4 shot is commonly used, often prove fatal.

One suggestion I have regarding shotguns is to not copy how they're fired on fictional TV and in the movies. If you put the stock near your hip or just above it, you'll likely shoot over the target even at close range. For snap shooting, it is better to bring the stock up to the armpit so as to level the gun.
 
agent00 said:
Thanks a lot for the replies. They are really helpful. As some of you guys already pointed it it is really important to check out how accurate the different loads will work in the baikal. So I need to buy many different loads to test them. I also need to find out how recoil sensitive I am and if the 00 buckshot is really kicking that much as some People say.

As I said in shotgun territory I am just familiar with 28 gauge rounds. The full power 28 gauge rounds from Fioochi are not kicking that bad, but I am Aware that the Little 28 gauge cannot be compared with a much more powerful 12 gauge round.
Click to expand...

What are the laws in your country regarding using deadly force to protect yourself? THAT might be a factor in what shot size to use.
 
I have had both 12 & 20 gauge shotguns and would highly recommend the 20 gauge. The slugs are 1oz vs 3/4 oz and energy levels about the same. There are a few less shot in the 20 gauge but it will still get the job done if needed.
You won’t shoot 12 gauge very often with that coach gun.
If you must have the 12,then buy a box of the reduced recoil rounds and one of the 2 3/4” rounds and see what YOU like!
JMO!

Be SAFE and Shoot often!
 
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At common ranges encountered inside the home I can't imagine patterning of the shotgun having any significant difference. The longest straight-line distance within my home is about 40 feet (13.33 yards).

I live in a city with neighbors on all four sides, all of us living in frame construction houses. Buckshot and slug rounds are lethal at ranges far in excess of my nearest 20 neighbors' homes.

I keep my Remington 870 loaded with 2-3/4" 12-gauge loads of BB-shot (approx. 90 pellets of .17 to .18 caliber). From one side of the room to the other side of the room I really doubt that there would be much difference in terminal effect when compared to buckshot or slugs; 1-1/4 oz. of lead at 1100 FPS with very little expansion of the pattern, ain't nothing walking away from it. But I doubt that these loads will penetrate a drywall and/or wood siding with enough residual energy to do much more than fall to the floor, if that.

Your methods may vary, as your results may vary.
 
One of the first shootings I went to was a 20 ga with #6 low brass at 15 ft. The quickly departed was wearing a tshirt and was hit just below the breast bone. Made a ragged hole about the size of a golf ball. Found shot against his spine. It immediately took all the aggressiveness out of him.
I don't recommend #6 low brass for personal defense but don't discount that it will work very well when that's all you have and the situation is right.
 
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