12 Gauge Slugs & SG Chokes

[kaaskop49]

Please help. What does the 'book' say on shooting Foster-type lead slugs in smoothbore bbls with anything tighter than the 'Cylinder' bore found on tactical SGs? I know that some bird-hunters will carry a few slug loads in case of trouble from a larger critter while out in the field, and those SGs are not cylinder bore.

Also, any choke restrictions on buckshot? Will chokes tighten buckshot groups? Thank you.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[poordevil]

I do not know the answer for sure, but I also do not believe the old wives tail that slugs and buckshot out off any BBL other than CYL Bore will damage the BBL. I have shot buck and slugs out of full choke and never any sign of a flared BBL or anything out of the ordinary.

 

[kwselke]

I pulled out a box of 12 gauge 1 OZ slugs and there are a bunch of warnings on the box, but nothing about chokes. I have fired 000 and 00 12 gauge buckshot in my O/U many times through Skeet, IC, and Modified chokes with no ill effects to anything other than my shoulder. The lead shot should easily deform if over constricted in the choke tube. Steel shot does not deform, so you should not use a choke tighter than Modified, and prefferably with chokes designed for steel shot.

 

[loc n load]

Slugs and choles

Having grown up in this area, then left to see the world, I returned regularly over the years to hunt deer here on the family farm....I grew up shooting slugs in shotguns and since that was the only legal deer long gun back in those days and still is unless you go with a BP rifle or a pistol caliber carbine or rifle....I heard all of the wives tales too over the years...bottom line is: that foster slug is soft and will conform to whatever opening it gets shoved out of.Steel is harder than lead, so it is possible that the slug could be deformed and thus not as accurate. In theory, the cylinder bore or improved cylinder should work best for the foster type slug because it will not deform the soft slug....having said that....I have a 16 ga. bolt action JC Higgins that has a modified choke....and I harvested a bunch of big bodied Indiana soy bean eating white tails with that old gun......An uncle had a JC Higgins 16 ga single shot / full choke - and he killed deer with that gun every year.....In my experience, if you are setting up a slug gun, then you need to shoot different slugs thru it and see which loads that particular gun likes the most.....nowadays, I deer hunt with a 40 year Mossberg 550 with a 24" slug barrel ( smooth bore / cylinder bore).....or a Savage 220 bolt gun that has a fully rifled bore that shoots sabot loads moa ( or less) out to 150 yds......if we are talking tactical shotguns....a cylinder bore or improved cylinder....with slugs or buck...as far as bird hunters carrying slugs.....I never have....hunted birds a lot out in Arizona, and still do around here..I might carry a couple loads of buck - #4 or 00...just in case..... but if I need to deal with "varmints", I have always have a sidearm....
As far as buckshot.....I haven't done any pattern board testing with buck shot thru tighter chokes, but I would think that yes, it would influence the pattern.....but....back boring and lengthening the forcing cone will produce amazing results in regards to shrinking pattern sizes with buck shot.....I have a Remington 870 worked over by Vang comp, and this shotgun with a 18" bl will group #4 buck and 00 buck into amazingly tight patterns.....to the point where I can take almost surgical head shots at 25 yds....15 yds...rat hole.(Vang has a web site- - check out the DEA pattern testing photo's of 00 buck and you will get an idea of what I am talking about)...typically with a out of the box police 870 I always saw "an inch per yard"....7 yards - 7 inch pattern....15 yds - 15 inch pattern - 25 yds - 25 inch or larger pattern......taught police shotgun for thirty years and did this demo annually every year to impress upon the officers of their liabilities with our duty loads as the range increased.
Hope this was helpful Kaaskop....be safe brother.

 

[30-30remchester]

In an old ad for a Winchester model 12 circa 1939?, this ad states that shooting slugs through a model 12 with give best results from modified to cylinder bore guns. However this ad also states that the shoot just fine from a full choked model 12's. This is a Winchester ad, so at least in the heavy duty model 12's have no issues.

 

[336A]

+1 to what loc and load said with some caveats. The only chokes to avoid shooting slugs through are the super tight Turkey choke tubes. The only buckshot ammo that I'm aware of where one should avoid the super tight chokes are the Federal Flight Control buckshot & Hornady Versalite wad loads. These loads were designed to be used in more open choke constrictions. Usually when using the afore mentioned ammo in tighter than modified chokes patterns will suffer.

For traditional buckshot loads Carlson's Choke Tubes and Shotgun Magazine Extensions from Carlson's Choke Tubes - The Official Home of Carlson's Choke Tubes, LLC - ChokeTube.com make some pretty tight choke tubes designed for predator hunting with buckshot.

 

[kaaskop49]

Thank you!

Appreciate the info, people. Whaddya say we take up a collection so we can pay loc n load by the word?

Seriously, I wish the mfgrs of OTC tactical SGs (we used to call them 'riot guns') would put some minor choking in their bbls. Buckshot spreads so rapidly in most cases that some pellets lose effectiveness in as little as 10 yards,striking in the extremities. I guess it's cheaper to not do so.

It is instructive to see Hickok45 on YouTube regularly hit an 80 yd gong with slugs using a simple bead. He also does so with a double barrel 20" side-by-side. Anyone remember we were taught one could not shoot slugs accurately with a double, as the bbls would crossfire?

Stay safe, y'all.

Kaaskop45
Shield #5103

 

[chief38]

In general I would not fire a pumpkin ball (slug) through any choke tighter than I/C - Modified unless of course you had to protect yourself in the woods from Yogi. Not saying you will ruin a barrel by doing so, but common sense tells me pushing something through a really tight choked down barrel restriction isn't too good. The more times you do it the more wear would be done IMHO.

I would imagine that a tighter choke would tighten any Shot, be it Bird Shot or Buck Shot. AFAIK Buck Shot can be fired through any choke without damage but the pattern will change.

 

[Fkimble]

My understanding was that the Forster type slug, the one with the big hollow area, was that it was designed to fit almost any barrel/choke combo due to the soft skirt expanding to seal the barrel and to easiy flex going thru the coked area.

 

[gdnagle]

Quoted from Chuck Hawks-referring to Foster type slugs

"They used to be made under bore diameter to allow safe passage through any degree of choke, from full to cylinder."

Look under Foster type rifled slugs, third paragraph.

Shotgun Slugs

 

[clang444]

You don't want to force anything too tight through the choke constriction of Double Barrel shotguns. It's an easy way to loosen the ribs and separate the barrels.

 

[loc n load]

Addition to post #4

Quoted from Chuck Hawks-referring to Foster type slugs

"They used to be made under bore diameter to allow safe passage through any degree of choke, from full to cylinder."

Look under Foster type rifled slugs, third paragraph.

Shotgun Slugs

I think they still are ...Just out of curiosity I pulled my Remington 870 trap gun out of the safe.....30" full choke.....dissected a 1oz slug load....removed slug..(for those of you who haven't seen a foster type slug from a modern slug load - they are hollow based, but inside that hollow base is a polycarbonate base plug - which is going to provide rigidity to the skirt of the slug & behind the projectile is two thick fiber pads for expanding gases to push against)...and dropped down the barrel from the chamber end.....slug fell completely thru the barrel....dropped out of the muzzle....no resistance what so ever....I could break out the calipers, but there is no need....I can insert the slug into the muzzle of the barrel and there is plenty of clearance - there isn't going to be any forcing of a slug thru this muzzle...I can insert the projectile into the muzzle w/o it making any contact with the bore.....my point is, this concern abt a full choke barrel constricting a slug's path as to deform the slug or damage the barrel - in the instance of this 870 trap gun....is totally unnecessary.....I realize that this is one gun, and I haven't broke out a bunch of other guns to compare, but I think the results are going to be the same.....goes back to what I said in post #4....need to check your particular gun with the load.....I have no intention of shooting slugs thru my purpose built trap gun....or for that matter my SxS doubles or O/U's..because I have other SGN's that are set up for that purpose...but if I did, I would check them just as I did my trap gun.

 

[336A]

Loc n load that is pretty interesting, how old is that particular slug load you dissected? The reason I ask is that all foster slugs made now are supposed to be full bore anymore. I know that Remington states on they're web site that their slugs are slightly over sized. I remember reading about slugs being under sized years ago with Remingtons being the worst of the bunch and Winchester being the closest to full bore diameter. I think today most are full bore diameter.

for those that still don't think that rifled slugs can be fired through full choke shotguns go here

FAQ

and read for yourselves. Shotguns are just like rifles in that the owner is just going to have to see for themselves what combination works best for them in their particualar shotgun. Usaually a more open choke is best for slugs but this is not always the case, sometimes a modified will do better than a IC choke. Also slugs (with the exception of the Federal Truball) do not obturate, there are fiber wads under the slug that seperate them from the powder. So there is no way for the powder to expand the skirt of the slug

Also as I said in my last post the Federal Flight Control wad buckshot loads are not intended for tight chokes. A tight choke will distort the pattern of these buckshot loads, there are plenty of videos out there that demonstrate this. The Flight Control wad is designed to pull away from the back of the shot column or buckshot, instead of opening as soon as it exits the barel and releasing the pay load. Using to tight of a choke with this ammo can damage the wad and cause it not operate as it was designed.

 

[loc n load]

Slug

It is a federal slug load....and it is prob 5-10 years old ( I hunt with this load- have killed a bunch of deer with this load since the 70's).....I have a bunch of WW & Remington slugs as well....that are current mfgr.....I haven't dissected any of those, but will when I have the time..Deer shotgun season is coming here soon and when I am at the store I will pick up a couple boxes of "current" slugs and we will see......I also have 16 ga and 20 ga slugs as well and when I have the opp I am going to dissect a couple of them and compare them to my full choke 20's and 16's as well.....frankly, I was surprised myself when the slug rattled down the barrel and plopped out of the full choke....goes to show you....regardless of how long you have been involved in this....always something to learn....I will let you know the results of my further investigations.
I will also break out the calipers and obtain some dimensions.

 

[kaaskop49]

attn loc n load

The bill for 'being paid by the word' keeps going up. If this continues, will have to send you a 1099. Knew you'd like that! Many thanks for your help. Again. Stay safe partner.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For slugs I like a Cylinder Bore or Improved Cylinder choke.
For Buckshot I like a Modified or Full choke.
(bold = preference)

 

[kaaskop49]

attn ArchAngelCD

Thanks for the skinny. How do you handle this? Different guns?Removable choke tubes...?

 

[kwselke]

Thanks for the skinny. How do you handle this? Different guns?Removable choke tubes...?

I have an 870 set up for home defense. I took an old 28" non-ribbed, fixed modified, 2 3/4" barrel and cut it down to 20" w/o choke for the HD role. I also have a 26" 3" barrel with interchangeable chokes if the gun needs to be used for hunting. In my hunting shotguns I generally use skeet. IC, or modified chokes depending on the task at hand. For dove and ducks over decoys I use skeet/IC in my over and unders. For geese I used IC/Modified. I seldom use full chokes.

 

[WR Moore]

While he was still at the S&W Academy Tom Aveni tested buckshot and discovered improved modified choke provides the tightest patterns with 00 buck. I don't recall if he was using standard or 'tactical'/low recoil buckshot.

I did do some testing with tactical buck and discovered that was also true, but IM produced some stupid tight patterns at ranges under 25 yards. No real advantage over straight modified at 25 yards.

Didn't notice any significant difference in slug performance using either IC/M/IM choke tubes. Cleaning the tubes wasn't fun, the slugs may drop through unfired, when fired the skirts expand to contact the bore.