15-22 will drive tacks, final setup.

[Russ Jerome]

Well I've done more experimenting with scopes, mounts, barrel tuning/seating and triggers than one needs to on the 15-22 but I have other AR's and parts to swap:

The "15 minute trigger job" easily found online does work, no FTF because of it provided you have a good shooter already. I've done several in the past and another R-15 while I did the S&W 22 at the same time, S&W does have thicker springs than most. Bend the trigger springs and nix one hammer spring, polish and you have a 2.4# smooth pull done right that fires 332 times out of 333 bulk ammo.

Rimfire ballistics and centerfire are in different leagues, the AR platform mandates high scope mounts. Unfortunately because we shoot at objects 15-55yrds away the POI needs to intersect the line of sight as soon as possible for as long as possible. With the stock HEAVILY carved so cheek rests on dummy buffer tube, Warne "extra high" mounts (#49080) and a Nikon 4x32 rimfire scope (no rifle scopes!) you have a scope mounted as low as comfortably possible with fast point and shoot ability (even tho I wear glass').

Wont bore you or lie showing some old targets I shot with my Anshutz exempler, the S&W22 will punch a hole the size of your thumbnail all day from the first cold shot till nightfall at 50yards with comercial bulk ammo.

If that shot doesnt show the stock mods well enough click on image and it will continue to blow up until its huge:
Home (morejunksite)
A good scope mounted at reasonable height with a trigger under 6# and the 15-22 will group as well (or better) than any 10-22,597 or 60 out of the box (well I did own this one model 60 that was magical but....man I miss that gun!).

 

[arizona98tj]

I'm glad yours is working for you. It's about time someone's is.

I own both a 10/22 and the 15-22. Between mine, there is no comparison. I've swapped scopes between the two (so it is not a matter of glass quality). The very stock 10/22 will shoot groups that are approximately 50% of what the 15-22 yields. This was proven consistently with a wide variety of ammo (spanning bulk grade to match grade) over numerous trips to the range.

It's no big deal....I bought it as a low cost alternative for AR-15 platform trigger time....and it does that very well. There is some disappointment, I will admit....mostly from the "match grade" barrel. Perhaps it is....but if one must do to the rest of the firearm what you apparently did, to get thumbnail sized groups at 50 yards, it is quite lacking coming out of the box. (or I just need a bigger thumbnail) Perhaps.......I got the only one made that isn't match grade accurate.

Anyway, glad you got yours running well. There has to be a sense of accomplishment there for sure.

 

[Thomas_H]

Wont bore you or lie showing some old targets I shot with my Anshutz exempler, the S&W22 will punch a hole the size of your thumbnail all day from the first cold shot till nightfall at 50yards with comercial bulk ammo.

No offense, but without a sample target of your "thumbnail groups", I'm not inclined to take your word for it. Big claims + no proof = FAIL.

I'm also interested to hear what "barrel tuning/seating" you've done that's taken your 2-4 MOA 15-22 to a sub-MOA thumbnail shooter.

Regardless, nice shot on the squirrel.

PS: I will not even get into what "tack driver" really means.

 

[mag318]

This is how mine shot at 100 yards after I got bored at 25 and 50 yards. If I scoped the rifle I'm sure the group would be much tighter. My M&P loves Federal 40 grn 710s.I just picked up my 2'nd M&P 15-22 with the factory installed flash hider and I'm thinking about scoping it. These old eyes aren't as good as they use to be. Russ I have no doubt about yours being a tack driver. When the weather warms up I'll take some pics on my next range outing showing what this rifle can do at 25 and 50 yards.

 

[Temporaryscars]

Jeeze, did you have to kill a squirrel? I hope you ate it!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'm also interested to hear what "barrel tuning/seating" you've done that's taken your 2-4 MOA 15-22 to a sub-MOA thumbnail shooter.

+1 all ears

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Perhaps.......I got the only one made that isn't match grade accurate.

I thought Lynn settled this long ago-- you just need to learn how to shoot better...

 

[27 Beck]

Well I've done more experimenting with scopes, mounts, barrel tuning/seating and triggers than one needs to on the 15-22 but I have other AR's and parts to swap:

The "15 minute trigger job" easily found online does work, no FTF because of it provided you have a good shooter already. I've done several in the past and another R-15 while I did the S&W 22 at the same time, S&W does have thicker springs than most. Bend the trigger springs and nix one hammer spring, polish and you have a 2.4# smooth pull done right that fires 332 times out of 333 bulk ammo.

Rimfire ballistics and centerfire are in different leagues, the AR platform mandates high scope mounts. Unfortunately because we shoot at objects 15-55yrds away the POI needs to intersect the line of sight as soon as possible for as long as possible. With the stock HEAVILY carved so cheek rests on dummy buffer tube, Warne "extra high" mounts (#49080) and a Nikon 4x32 rimfire scope (no rifle scopes!) you have a scope mounted as low as comfortably possible with fast point and shoot ability (even tho I wear glass').

Wont bore you or lie showing some old targets I shot with my Anshutz exempler, the S&W22 will punch a hole the size of your thumbnail all day from the first cold shot till nightfall at 50yards with comercial bulk ammo.

If that shot doesnt show the stock mods well enough click on image and it will continue to blow up until its huge:
Home (morejunksite)
A good scope mounted at reasonable height with a trigger under 6# and the 15-22 will group as well (or better) than any 10-22,597 or 60 out of the box (well I did own this one model 60 that was magical but....man I miss that gun!).

Nice setup. Which Nikon scope is that you are using?

What do you put the turbos on?

I'm glad yours is working for you. It's about time someone's is.

I own both a 10/22 and the 15-22. Between mine, there is no comparison. I've swapped scopes between the two (so it is not a matter of glass quality). The very stock 10/22 will shoot groups that are approximately 50% of what the 15-22 yields. This was proven consistently with a wide variety of ammo (spanning bulk grade to match grade) over numerous trips to the range.

It's no big deal....I bought it as a low cost alternative for AR-15 platform trigger time....and it does that very well. There is some disappointment, I will admit....mostly from the "match grade" barrel. Perhaps it is....but if one must do to the rest of the firearm what you apparently did, to get thumbnail sized groups at 50 yards, it is quite lacking coming out of the box. (or I just need a bigger thumbnail) Perhaps.......I got the only one made that isn't match grade accurate.

Anyway, glad you got yours running well. There has to be a sense of accomplishment there for sure.

I think a good trigger job is one of the things that improves accuracy. Too heavy of a trigger and I start "pulling" the gun when shooting.

This is how mine shot at 100 yards after I got bored at 25 and 50 yards. If I scoped the rifle I'm sure the group would be much tighter. My M&P loves Federal 40 grn 710s.I just picked up my 2'nd M&P 15-22 with the factory installed flash hider and I'm thinking about scoping it. These old eyes aren't as good as they use to be. Russ I have no doubt about yours being a tack driver. When the weather warms up I'll take some pics on my next range outing showing what this rifle can do at 25 and 50 yards.

So which is more accurate, your Sig 522 or your 15-22?

I thought Lynn settled this long ago-- you just need to learn how to shoot better...

Lynn who?

 

[Russ Jerome]

No offense, but without a sample target of your "thumbnail groups", I'm not inclined to take your word for it. Big claims + no proof = FAIL.

I'm also interested to hear what "barrel tuning/seating" you've done that's taken your 2-4 MOA 15-22 to a sub-MOA thumbnail shooter.

Regardless, nice shot on the squirrel.

PS: I will not even get into what "tack driver" really means.

I've been on enough long range forums to know every kid with a 25yrd target claims he hit all 5 of the cloverleaf shots with his 6.5x284 at 600yrds........you tell me what kind of group you want to see and I'll post a pic I stole on another forum and claim its mine Pics of targets are fine if you know the author, Remington White box, 300yards I beleive, off a fencepost practicing for Starlings that roost in close bye tree:
http://sites.google.com/site/miscmi...339560/Home/IMG_2790.JPG?height=150&width=200
Actual Starling, my eyes cant see them that far away without spotting scope,collected that target at same time pic taken:
http://sites.google.com/site/miscmi...446637/Home/IMG_2796.JPG?height=150&width=200
Unprotected up here, plenty hit the ground that day.

Seriously the goal here was a practical small game gun that with little to no holdover, my target is the elevator headed bolts on a semi trailer door, 1.5" OD at 15-55yrds with no holdover. I own plenty of guns if I want to post bragging targets, I've got a 1938 Winchester 68-22, custom tapped for a 1960's era Weaver scope that should have its picture in the dictionary: tack driver, too drive small finishing nails without fail. Had an old magical Model 60 wish I never sold

I removed, cleaned and installed the barrel well lubed, was convinced the the handgaurd cover was no effect on or off, played with shock bushings on barrel and leaning on the barrel nut pretty firm but Im afraid all the trigger swapping I did from other rifles screwed anything scientific, the stock trigger reworked is realy nice and the biggest change. Very happy with gun, will try and record verified distance/target next time just to see how she does for the record, thanks for reading.

Home (russjerome)

 

[arizona98tj]

One very positive thing that came out of my trying to find 15-22 ammo that would produce sub-MOA groups.....I was able to try the left overs in my Ruger 10/22 and found some loads that it really did like. It also made for some extra trigger time on my AR-15 (I was following Lynn's suggestion about learning how to shoot ) and I did manage to find some off the shelf .223 ammo that did shoot sub-MOA. So it really was worth the effort in one way or another.

 

[mag318]

I just got my Sig 522 and because of the weather here haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I will report back after I do. I will say though my S&W is very accurate. I hope the Sig will be as accurate.

 

[iflyfish]

Mine is not a tack driver. I'm not complaining, I did not buy it for that. It is pretty accurate at 25, and 50 yards, but beyond that its about a 1 foot window.

If someone called and said "you have to survive for the next 3 months off small game. Grab a 22 and box of ammo". I'd choose my 10-22 or Henry with the open sights. If someone called and said " let's go relieve stress plinking" I'd for sure grab the 15-22.

 

[patrickm1587]

Well I've done more experimenting with scopes, mounts, barrel tuning/seating and triggers than one needs to on the 15-22 but I have other AR's and parts to swap:

The "15 minute trigger job" easily found online does work, no FTF because of it provided you have a good shooter already. I've done several in the past and another R-15 while I did the S&W 22 at the same time, S&W does have thicker springs than most. Bend the trigger springs and nix one hammer spring, polish and you have a 2.4# smooth pull done right that fires 332 times out of 333 bulk ammo.

Rimfire ballistics and centerfire are in different leagues, the AR platform mandates high scope mounts. Unfortunately because we shoot at objects 15-55yrds away the POI needs to intersect the line of sight as soon as possible for as long as possible. With the stock HEAVILY carved so cheek rests on dummy buffer tube, Warne "extra high" mounts (#49080) and a Nikon 4x32 rimfire scope (no rifle scopes!) you have a scope mounted as low as comfortably possible with fast point and shoot ability (even tho I wear glass').

Wont bore you or lie showing some old targets I shot with my Anshutz exempler, the S&W22 will punch a hole the size of your thumbnail all day from the first cold shot till nightfall at 50yards with comercial bulk ammo.

If that shot doesnt show the stock mods well enough click on image and it will continue to blow up until its huge:
Home (morejunksite)
A good scope mounted at reasonable height with a trigger under 6# and the 15-22 will group as well (or better) than any 10-22,597 or 60 out of the box (well I did own this one model 60 that was magical but....man I miss that gun!).

You must like turbo's, me too. I've got a 72' Datsun 510 that I swapped a SR20DET into and put a bigger turbo on. I lovvee it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I've been on enough long range forums to know every kid with a 25yrd target claims he hit all 5 of the cloverleaf shots with his 6.5x284 at 600yrds........you tell me what kind of group you want to see and I'll post a pic I stole on another forum and claim its mine

Dude... you'll find that the folks here aren't into pretendo bragging rights. We just wanna know how to make our rifles better if possible. And if you can lend a hand with that then please do.

That being said, I have no idea what a pic of you in a golf cart or a pile of rusted turbos will do to improve my rifle performance, so yo can save that for some other Forum. But if you have some how-to's and results pics that would be great.

I normally don't shoot at paper with my 15-22 but Belt_Fed asked me to pop some caps at paper for something he's dreaming up to try on my rifle (ain't gonna tell)

Here's a pic of two full mags + a few rounds or Fed Val Pack at a 2 inch Shoot N C with a SightMark reflex sight. About 1sec shots standing up but leaning on a fence post at 50 yards. If I slow down or use a powered optic I can pretty much keep em on 2 inch.... but I ain't never seen finger nail size groups absent muzzle flash burns on the target.

Let's see what ya got. I ain't too proud to learn from you how to get a sub MOA rifle. Whatcha got?

 

[Russ Jerome]

Dude... you'll find that the folks here aren't into pretendo bragging rights. We just wanna know how to make our rifles better if possible. And if you can lend a hand with that then please do.

Wow we're realy getting off target, we know you need to:

#1: Throw away or modify your trigger, all stock 15-22 triggers are way too heavy. The 15 minute trigger job (free) will do wonders. The single thing will cut your groups in half.

#2: Ditch the red dot $30 scopes, may as well be iron sights. A rimfire 50yrd parralex scope, plenty available out there. people like whining about the guns accuracy problems, its silly if your looking thru peep sights mounted 2.5" above the bore.

#3: Mount the scope as low as you can, AR stock not very good for rimfire height mounting (POI/trajectory).The only reason to look at the image on the sight was so you could see how to modify your stock so you can get your cheakweld low as possible.

I tried to elude to the fact I dont believe half the BS pics I see online, the reason I did "not" put a bragging Bullseye up.

That being said I look forward to resting the gun on bags, indoors at my local 50 yard range, no wind, no heart beating from watching the bird in the crosshairs and post pics. Kind of meaningless for the purpose I have mine set up, practical lightweight hunting and sporting gun. English Sparrows are unprotected in WI, had a great day today, ammo I would not waste indoors this time of the year with season open and weather great.

 

[Thomas_H]

Wow we're realy getting off target, we know you need to:

#1: Throw away or modify your trigger, all stock 15-22 triggers are way too heavy. The 15 minute trigger job (free) will do wonders. The single thing will cut your groups in half.

I agree, the stock trigger is not exactly conducive to accuracy.

#2: Ditch the red dot $30 scopes, may as well be iron sights. A rimfire 50yrd parralex scope, plenty available out there. people like whining about the guns accuracy problems, its silly if your looking thru peep sights mounted 2.5" above the bore.

I agree that cheap sights cannot be relied upon to hold a solid zero. However, the sight height over bore has no effect whatsoever on accuracy.

#3: Mount the scope as low as you can, AR stock not very good for rimfire height mounting (POI/trajectory).The only reason to look at the image on the sight was so you could see how to modify your stock so you can get your cheakweld low as possible.

I agree consistent/repeatable cheek-weld is important for accuracy. But again, the sight H.O.B. has absolutely nothing to do with accuracy.

I tried to elude to the fact I dont believe half the BS pics I see online, the reason I did "not" put a bragging Bullseye up.

I suppose your right. Posting a picture doesn't prove anything. But then again, making claims that you rifle shoots thumbnail size groups at 50 yards (on multiple forums BTW) doesn't prove anything either.

That being said I look forward to resting the gun on bags, indoors at my local 50 yard range, no wind, no heart beating from watching the bird in the crosshairs and post pics. Kind of meaningless for the purpose I have mine set up, practical lightweight hunting and sporting gun. English Sparrows are unprotected in WI, had a great day today, ammo I would not waste indoors this time of the year with season open and weather great.

The info that I'm curious about is the "barrel tuning/seating" experiments that you performed. IMO, the tolerances between the steel sleeve in the receiver and the barrel are too loose for anything but plinking accuracy.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Wow we're realy getting off target, we know you need to:

#1: Throw away or modify your trigger, all stock 15-22 triggers are way too heavy. The 15 minute trigger job (free) will do wonders. The single thing will cut your groups in half.

#2: Ditch the red dot $30 scopes, may as well be iron sights. A rimfire 50yrd parralex scope, plenty available out there. people like whining about the guns accuracy problems, its silly if your looking thru peep sights mounted 2.5" above the bore.

#3: Mount the scope as low as you can, AR stock not very good for rimfire height mounting (POI/trajectory).The only reason to look at the image on the sight was so you could see how to modify your stock so you can get your cheakweld low as possible.

I tried to elude to the fact I dont believe half the BS pics I see online, the reason I did "not" put a bragging Bullseye up.

That being said I look forward to resting the gun on bags, indoors at my local 50 yard range, no wind, no heart beating from watching the bird in the crosshairs and post pics. Kind of meaningless for the purpose I have mine set up, practical lightweight hunting and sporting gun. English Sparrows are unprotected in WI, had a great day today, ammo I would not waste indoors this time of the year with season open and weather great.

Thanks for the tip on the trigger. I am sure it will help with accuracy results for unloading a mag in less than 30 seconds as the above target pic displays. I was more interested to know what actual mods to the rifle you had done other than optics and such.

 

[Russ Jerome]

I have a bad habit of trying too many things at one time to say anything pro/con about playing with barrel.

I did the obvious things the first time out and shot with and without the little collar that keeps the barrel from free floating, may barely touch it but it always proves to affect my 22-250 and other free floated guns. I honestly saw zero change with it installed or removed but have kept it off because it technicaly should not be there.

Barrel installed clean and dry, lubed and overtorqued ect but again this was during a trigger swap weekend. I honestly believe the stock trigger with one hammer spring removed and the trigger springs bent, polished internals made the best improvement, more so than an expensive drop in of similar pull weight.

Thick rubber bushing on barrel base (harmonics), midway and at end. Made a noticable diffence until I realized I could duplicate it with any heavy and stable weight on barrel, probably keeping my (old) hands steadier even from a rest.

Tried destroying my own gun making paper thin shims from kingpin shims, have smaller ones I plan on trying just to see if the part numbers will help others because as noted by others the barrel fit is marginal.

With my groups as they are I doubt I will experiment until summer comes. Sil-glide coated barrel firmly torqued (tight as I could without peeling/breaking anything) and free floated without the handgaurd collar on.

 

[Russ Jerome]

Scope height wont effect accuracy, as long as the target is always at the same distance, same distance you target shoot at for point of impact.

A scope 2.5" or more above bore will spend less distance (rimfire) traveling along the line of sight, more so than a 3000fps 45gr centerfire right? Shooting at a rabbit at 15ft away will require greater holdover for a 50yrd zeroed scope higher above the bore. Enough people much smarter than I have convinced me high mounted AR scopes are fine on centerfire but actualy bearing down on a close target and distant targets shows me 22's just dont have that lazer flat trajectory....I think... YRMV.