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19-3; Old box Western Super X .357 Metal Piercing?
- Thread starter Riverboys
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Pisgah
Member
Won't hurt anything -- but the load's old enough to be edging in to collectable status. I know from long-ago experience it'll poke holes through junk cars -- although not the engine blocks, as was claimed 'way back.
muzzleblast
Member
How about a pic of the cartridges?
I wouldn’t shoot that up. They probably wouldn’t appreciate it at your local indoor range and it’s fairly desirable. Manufacturers can’t produce and sell AP ammo to civilians any longer, but the old ammo is OK to own and sell under federal law. State laws vary. It’s pretty pricey these days and is collectible. I’ve seen boxes sell for well over $100 online.
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Tested some back in the 70’s, pretty good at going through vehicle sheet metal and IIRC went in one side of block of old engine. Think I have 1 or 2 somewhere.
jbtrucker
Member
Rpg
Member
Back in the day, I got some of that ammo.
I figured it would out perform swc or jacketed 357 in terms of penetration. I was disappointed.
The stuff didn’t penetrate railroad ties or junkyard cars any better than swc or soft point jacketed 357 ammo.
It did display a tendency to ricochet when fired at heavy sheet metal or windshield glass at less than 90 degrees.
I figured it would out perform swc or jacketed 357 in terms of penetration. I was disappointed.
The stuff didn’t penetrate railroad ties or junkyard cars any better than swc or soft point jacketed 357 ammo.
It did display a tendency to ricochet when fired at heavy sheet metal or windshield glass at less than 90 degrees.
.38 special cartridge that looks just like the .357 magnums.
I wonder if it is +P. Any guesses how old?
Don’t know anything about it really, except it is in my collection of cartridges.
Since I have only one I don’t think I will test it.
I wonder if it is +P. Any guesses how old?
Don’t know anything about it really, except it is in my collection of cartridges.
Since I have only one I don’t think I will test it.
THE PILGRIM
Member
Long ago had a box.
As I recall, they shot hot.
I think I shot some holes through some old car bodies.
As I recall, they shot hot.
I think I shot some holes through some old car bodies.
Well, if that 1410 fps rating isn't an advertising hype result that they got by jiggering the test it ought to shoot a good bit hotter than about anything you can buy today.
I have some of those, I thought they were handloads.
I also have some of the .22 sabot rounds for .30-30 and .30-06.
I also have some of the .22 sabot rounds for .30-30 and .30-06.
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30-30remchester
Member
I have a box of both 38 and 357 metal piercing ammo. I pulled and sectioned several bullets. They have a soft lead core not steel, and the jacket is no thicker at the tip than on the rest of the bullet.
I experimented with the .357 and .38 Special versions of those years ago. Both behaved similarly to FMJ 9mm on auto sheet metal; the .357 only more so. Only the tip of the bullets are jacketed; a guilding metal cap. The bearing surfaces that contact the bore are lubricated lead just like 158 gr RNL.
There are 2 W-W versions in .38 Special. One is conical shaped just like the OP's photos. The other has a curved ogive similar to a FMJ .30 military ball; but much shorter. Both are listed as H.V., similar to what later became +P.
I also had some .38 Special standard velocity 'Metal Capped' rounds. Those had lead 158gr bullets that had a round nose, guilding metal cap covering the bullet noses. They also had lubricated lead bearing surfaces.
I believe all of these rounds were designed to increase auto body penetration and nothing more. Laws regulating AP handgun ammo do not apply to these designs because they do not have hard metal cores. They have solid lead cores.
There are 2 W-W versions in .38 Special. One is conical shaped just like the OP's photos. The other has a curved ogive similar to a FMJ .30 military ball; but much shorter. Both are listed as H.V., similar to what later became +P.
I also had some .38 Special standard velocity 'Metal Capped' rounds. Those had lead 158gr bullets that had a round nose, guilding metal cap covering the bullet noses. They also had lubricated lead bearing surfaces.
I believe all of these rounds were designed to increase auto body penetration and nothing more. Laws regulating AP handgun ammo do not apply to these designs because they do not have hard metal cores. They have solid lead cores.
Years ago a mentor gave me a dozen of the .357 and told me they would not penetrate any better than a hard SWC. I tried them on car wheels and found that too be true. I bought a box and shot 6 with the same results and I still have the remaining 44. I have never shot a car engine but a hard 158 gr. SWC will knock a hole in a 50s Ford tractor engine, a DeSota transmisson housing and 40s and 50s car wheels. Larry
Old Corp
Member
Some seem not to notice that 'metal piercing' is not the same as true AP.
Already stated, but these were really nothing but the soft swaged lead bullets with a cute little pointy copper cap on top.
They had no special properties other than perhaps getting through sheet metal a little better than some duty rounds.
I'm sure that some Coppers of old liked how they looked on a cartridge slide also
Already stated, but these were really nothing but the soft swaged lead bullets with a cute little pointy copper cap on top.
They had no special properties other than perhaps getting through sheet metal a little better than some duty rounds.
I'm sure that some Coppers of old liked how they looked on a cartridge slide also
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Back in the day, I carried six rounds of these rounds in my 12 round duty cartridge loops.
