19 year old burglar shot at the back door in Utah, this should be interesting

[dacoontz]

So here in Salt Lake a 19 year old male was trying to break into someones house through the back sliding glass door. The homeowner saw the man and shot him through the glass door. The would be burglar ran away and fled as far as the middle of the street where he was found dead by the police after the homeowner called 911. The homeowner hasn't been charged with anything yet and the burglar only had his wallet and a scredriver on him. I guess we're going to see just where Utah Law stands on this sort of thing. Maybe this sort of thing happens a lot in other states but not here. I think with the details of this case that it will set some precedent for the years to come. I Ipartly hope they don't charge the homeowner since that would discourage anymore would be burglars in this area, but part of me wonders if he really needed to shoot a man that had yet to actually enter his home. Maybe a warning shot would have been nice. Heck, maybe it was a warning shot and the guy has terrible aim (that would be my defense).

 

[watchmanjimg]

Take a look at this for a general overview:

Utah Carry Application

 

[M29since14]

No threat to life = no need to shoot. Whatever the law does, that fact is a constant, as far as my conscience would be concerned.

 

[novalty]

Weird that he shot through the glass door if burglar was outside. Hoping home-owner doesn't get charged, but would worry where the burglar wasn't in the house, don't know if he was threatened or if any warning was given. I know a screwdriver could be considered a deadly weapon. Just not sure I would have made the same decision if caught in the same circumstance.

 

[Gaffer]

In many states you are allowed to shoot through the door if someone is trying to break-in. It is the Castle Defense! Here it has to be a dwelling place, in other words where one has his place of sleep and living quarters. OK for the residence but not the shed or barn.

 

[bitstream]

Problem is that the homeowner has know way of knowing that the burgler isn't armed, nor does the homeowner know the burgler's intent once he gets inside. By the time he discovers these two elements, it might be too late. Tough call.

Back home in Texas, if they're on your property after sundown, it's pretty much weapons free as far as I recall. I remember back in San Antonio a homeowner saw a shadowy figure by his chicken coops and shot him in the middle of the night; turned out to be a teen up to no good, but the homeowner wasn't arrested or charged.

 

[Andy Griffith]

In many states you are allowed to shoot through the door if someone is trying to break-in. It is the Castle Defense! Here it has to be a dwelling place, in other words where one has his place of sleep and living quarters. OK for the residence but not the shed or barn.

I've slept in the barn a few times- usually with the opposite sex when I was younger. The doghouse has been my residence for lengthy periods too. I am certain the law would cover me in both instances.

 

[watchmanjimg]

Assuming our facts are correct it would appear that this homeowner used deadly force to prevent the commission of a forcible felony, the definition of which includes burglary per the link I mentioned earlier. Legally it may not be such a tough call, morally is a different story as others have pointed out. I wouldn't be too keen on shooting under these circumstances, but we weren't there and don't have to worry about how this man's choice will affect his sleep at night--thank goodness.

 

[jtpur]

Let us suppose for just a moment that a Russian Bomber enter US airspace....It does not turn back when intercepted by US fighters....do we have to wait until it drops its bombs before we shoot it down? So if the answer is no, why does a home owner have to wait until the burglar enters his home? When burglars invade homes and confront owners the chance of violence against the homeower is severe.......could the home ower defeat the young burglar? Does he have to engage in a physical fight.....so I see no problem with the owner protecting his home, his personal safety and the safety of his family.....he waits....he may die.....if someone is to die, let it be the burglar.....by the way, where would the warnign shot have gone...into the ground, so it can bounce off rock and hit the neighbors 3 year old kid, in the air, where it comes down on the park three blocks away? Here is your warning.....Do not break into homes, it could be hazardous to your health!" and its illegal too.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

76-2-405. Force in defense of habitation.
(1) A person is justified in using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's unlawful entry into or attack upon his habitation; however, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if:
(a) the entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner, surreptitiously, or by stealth, and he reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person, dwelling, or being in the habitation and he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence; or
(b) he reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony in the habitation and that the force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.
(2) The person using force or deadly force in defense of habitation is presumed for the purpose of both civil and criminal cases to have acted reasonably and had a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury if the entry or attempted entry is unlawful and is made or attempted by use of force, or in a violent and tumultuous manner, or surreptitiously or by stealth, or for the purpose of committing a felony.

So, it gets down to the question of "reasonableness," and on this subject, Utah law states:

(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
(d) the other's prior violent acts or violent propensities; and
(e) any patterns of abuse or violence in the parties' relationship.

Let's hope the homeowner gets a reasonable judge. Things such as the age and infirmities (if any) of the homeowner, the burglar's previous criminal history, etc., will undoubtedly come into consideration.

I'm not going to judge when I don't know all the facts, but I do know that the homeowner would have been on more solid ground had he shouted a warning, and then, being ignored, waited until the perpetrator had actually opened the door.


Bullseye

 

[cmort666]

Regardless of the legalities, if you don't want to get shot, don't do that.

 

[novalty]

I agree with you Bullseye regarding verbal warning. So hard to say as it didn't happen to me, but I don't think I would have made a "warning shot," as I have a wife and two small kids at home, and wouldn't just randomly shoot in a direction to scare someone off. Not sure about the laws, but couldn't this been mistrude as a reckless discharge of firearm?

In regards to the Russian Bomber reference, I am sure the US would give plenty of warning that they would shoot the bomber down before they removed the threat. But I don't know US Government protocol in this situation, I do know how difficult it is to board a plane in US, so I can guess it might be more difficult for a foreign plane to enter US airspace.

 

[zercool]

Maybe a warning shot would have been nice. Heck, maybe it was a warning shot and the guy has terrible aim (that would be my defense).

In my un-humble opinion: There is NO SUCH THING as a warning shot.

In the eyes of the law, pulling the trigger and missing is still employing deadly force. If you're not reasonably sure it's a clean shoot, you shouldn't be shooting - at anything.

 

[BUFF]

This only happened 6 hours ago. The investigation is still underway. It is unlikely the prosecutors, the Salt Lake County District Attorneys Office, will have a decision about this for a few days at least. The guy had a wife and two little girls in the house with him.

 

[Big Cholla]

Really Bad Defense!

So here in Salt Lake a 19 year old male was trying to break into someones house through the back sliding glass door. The homeowner saw the man and shot him through the glass door. The would be burglar ran away and fled as far as the middle of the street where he was found dead by the police after the homeowner called 911. The homeowner hasn't been charged with anything yet and the burglar only had his wallet and a scredriver on him. I guess we're going to see just where Utah Law stands on this sort of thing. Maybe this sort of thing happens a lot in other states but not here. I think with the details of this case that it will set some precedent for the years to come. I I partly hope they don't charge the homeowner since that would discourage anymore would be burglars in this area, but part of me wonders if he really needed to shoot a man that had yet to actually enter his home. Maybe a warning shot would have been nice. Heck, maybe it was a warning shot and the guy has terrible aim (that would be my defense).

And you would be opening yourself up for the mother of all civil suits for more money than you will ever be able to earn! You are responsible for the results of all shots taken under any circumstance. That defense would get you in criminal court too. Maybe not to the extent of law available to the prosecutors, but certainly for a reduced charge of some sort.

Remember folks, no self-defense shooting ends with the criminal prosecution being settled. The civil suit possibility still is out there for heirs and their ambulance chasing lawyers to consider. ............ Big Cholla

 

[feralmerril]

Although I live in utah, this is the first I heard of the incident. All our picking apart for or against, wont affect the outcome. All we can do here is watch and learn.
Once I had a bad wreck. I had to share my hospital room with a youth like that. He was burglaring a house and the owner came home. He ran through a glass door and got cut up bad. The biggest thing that peed me off was the nice visitors he got that never talked about or admonished him as to the incident that got him in the hospital. I think he was glad to see me go home though.

 

[watchmanjimg]

And you would be opening yourself up for the mother of all civil suits for more money than you will ever be able to earn! You are responsible for the results of all shots taken under any circumstance. That defense would get you in criminal court too. Maybe not to the extent of law available to the prosecutors, but certainly for a reduced charge of some sort.

Remember folks, no self-defense shooting ends with the criminal prosecution being settled. The civil suit possibility still is out there for heirs and their ambulance chasing lawyers to consider. ............ Big Cholla

I wouldn't use the defense proposed by Dacoontz either, but in some states civil lawsuits are precluded if a defensive shooting is held to be justified. If you read post #10 again very carefully, I think you'll agree that there are situations in Utah where both criminal and civil liability will not attach.

 

[cabreco]

Patience would go a long way to avoid any major LEGAL problems here. Since the homeowner had plenty of time to shoot through the (still locked) door, it would have been prudent of him to position himself in a defensive position until the door was breached & the burglar took a few steps into the home with the screwdriver before he fired.

I feel a warning shot would never be warranted, if you feel the urgency to fire, it's because you are in mortal danger.

 

[feralmerril]

I recall a incident many years ago in california. I came on a accident that had just happened. A car was smashed up and the driver was dieing. A old police officer arrived while I was there. A guy walked up that I hadnt originaly seen and told the cop that he walked in on the guy in his house, got his gun, evidently the guy ran out, got in his car and stacked it up maybe a half block away! Somehow I think but dont know, if the guy was either playing around with his wife, or was burglaring the place. The cop interupted him to listen to the radio and told the guy, he just "flipped!" I left and dont know of any outcome, but now I wish I had kept up with what if anything happened to the homeowner latter.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Yep, there is no such thing as a warning shot -- that's why I specified a loud verbal warning, such as "Stop right where you are!" or "Halt! I am armed and will shoot!"

The fact that the homeowner had a wife and children in the house will undoubtedly be considered when the DA, or the Court, makes a determination as to the reasonableness of the homeowner's actions.


Bullseye