1911 NEED A GRIP SAFTEY?

[willy]

The 1911 was not org. designed with a grip saftey.
It was only added after the Army required it on the new pistol.
The Browning HIGH POWER which was to be an improved 1911 didn't have one.
Skeeter Skelton stated where he had his pressed in and pinned so it was always in the compressed postion.
Also some guys used tape in battlefield conditions to keep grip saftey compressed incase they had to use a (hurried grab and shoot) with the pistol without a sure grip on the gun.
Then there are those who seem to think the 1911 design is perfect as is with the thumb and grip saftey.

 

[willy]

The 1911 was not org. designed with a grip saftey.
It was only added after the Army required it on the new pistol.
The Browning HIGH POWER which was to be an improved 1911 didn't have one.
Skeeter Skelton stated where he had his pressed in and pinned so it was always in the compressed postion.
Also some guys used tape in battlefield conditions to keep grip saftey compressed incase they had to use a (hurried grab and shoot) with the pistol without a sure grip on the gun.
Then there are those who seem to think the 1911 design is perfect as is with the thumb and grip saftey.

 

[gmchenry]

I don't know if I "need" it, but I do like it.

 

[dynamike]

sure am glad mine is there...just in case!

 

[586L-Frame]

I like it and agree with the others above.

586L-Frame

 

[1006smith]

Some guns with an ambi safety have been known to have their thumb safety move to the fire position. With the light trigger on many of these guns, I want the grip safety on mine. Mine has never failed to fire due to a bad grip.

 

[sasu]

Sometimes I manage not to engage the grip safety, probably due to the size of my hand which tends to leave a gap between my palm and the grip. I have to be really deliberate with my grip to ensure engaging the safety.

 

[Jim Watson]

If it doesn't have a grip safety, it isn't a 1911, it is Something Else. Colt started putting grip safeties on Army trials guns in 1907.

And remember, the BHP was designed in response to a FRENCH specification, not some ivory tower dream of an "improved 1911."

I don't have any problem depressing the grip safety, but then I don't shoot guns with internal obstructions that can remain engaged after the trigger is cleared.
And I don't shoot guns with the back of the frame swamped out so far and the grip safety set so high that your hand contacts above the pivot point.
Start monkeying around with a well proven design and you can get some unintended consequences.

 

[dennis40x]

Jeff Cooper wasn’t an advocate of the grip safety and had it pinned in place on at least one example 1911. As for the thumb safety coming off how is the firearm is going to discharge if carried in a proper holster. You’d still need the trigger press to actuate the firing mechanism. I believe Novak is selling a one piece back strap that eliminates the grip safety as part of 1911 high end dollar package.

 

[WR Moore]

Jeff Cooper pinned his grip safety because he had small hands and occasional trouble depressing the grip safety. He also stated that he did it, he didn't recommend it.

With all the "memory" grip safeties with bumps that make it virtually impossible to grab the weapon and not depress the grip safety, there's no reason to omit it or make it ineffective.

BTW, the military insistence on the grip safety was because the weapon was a cavalry sidearm retained by a lanyard. Dropping the cocked, unsafed weapon while in motion was a strong possibility and prevented AD in that instance. Picture a pistol bouncing around on that lanyard while the horse is galloping

 

[dogsoldier]

At one point in my LEO career, I carried a 1911. During winter, with gloves on, the grip safety is a royal PITA!

FWIW, Novak's has a replacement backstrap for the 1911 that totally ELIMINATES the grip safety.

 

[dennis40x]

Originally posted by WR Moore:
Jeff Cooper pinned his grip safety because he had small hands and occasional trouble depressing the grip safety. He also stated that he did it, he didn't recommend it.

I have personal correspondence with Cooper on this subject. He advocated pinning the grip safety in that correspondence. For general public consumption he or his publishers may have been concerned with the issue liability.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[TonyR]

You guys crack me up. Mom would have said, "Who cares what Jeff Cooper does, If he jumps off the bridge, does that meen you have to jump with him !" Good bless you mom. TonyR

 

[imp]

Help me understand more, please! The grip safety blocks the sear from movement? Or the hammer from falling? If former, then latter follows. I THINK the idea is the grip safety prevents an unintentional release of the sear due to sudden, harsh jarring or impact to the weapon. Would this be correct?

Then, of course, palming it allows normal firing, hand-held, instead of firing from a concrete floor impact.

Then, the firing-pin block should prevent such A.D. events, could not the grip safety be eliminated safely after 1980 series? Ignoring liability considerations, of course?

Thanks! imp

 

[Mickey D]

I use my 1911s for target and carry. It's not whether I need the safety, I prefer it.

 

[Ron H.]

Originally posted by imp:
Help me understand more, please! The grip safety blocks the sear from movement? Or the hammer from falling? If former, then latter follows. I THINK the idea is the grip safety prevents an unintentional release of the sear due to sudden, harsh jarring or impact to the weapon. Would this be correct?

Then, of course, palming it allows normal firing, hand-held, instead of firing from a concrete floor impact.

Then, the firing-pin block should prevent such A.D. events, could not the grip safety be eliminated safely after 1980 series? Ignoring liability considerations, of course?

Thanks! imp

Sir, the grip safety and firing pin block have entirely different functions, neither of which involves the sear. The grip safety only blocks the trigger. The firing pin block in the Series 80 guns only blocks the firing pin--it allows the inertial firing pin to move forward only when the trigger is pulled. The thumb safety is what blocks the sear.

So no, having a firing pin block does not make the grip safety redundant.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[sasu]

The safest thing to do is to remove the firing pin. The gun will work normally, but it will not fire. I do not understand why guns are not built like this right from the factory and why this is not a legal requirement. Instead we play with silly safeties and internal locks. There are millions of dangerous guns out there!

 

[willy]

So for those that need the grip saftey on the 1911,
Do you NEED the internal lock on your revolvers?


Willy

 

[shawn mccarver]

Originally posted by willy:
The 1911 was not org. designed with a grip saftey.
It was only added after the Army required it on the new pistol.
The Browning HIGH POWER which was to be an improved 1911 didn't have one.
Skeeter Skelton stated where he had his pressed in and pinned so it was always in the compressed postion.
Also some guys used tape in battlefield conditions to keep grip saftey compressed incase they had to use a (hurried grab and shoot) with the pistol without a sure grip on the gun.
Then there are those who seem to think the 1911 design is perfect as is with the thumb and grip saftey.

You do not NEED the grip safety. Jeff Cooper used to pin his in place on personal weapons and tape it down on issue weapons. It is more of an issue if you hold with a high thumb, which CAN take pressure off the grip safety causing it not to be pressed down consistently enough to deactivate.

I don't have this problem, so I have no need to deactivate the device.

If you don't like it, you can tape, pin or try the new one piece backstrap made, I believe, by Wayne Novak (it houses the mainsrping and is one big long piece that replaces both the mainspring housing and the grip safety and it does not move and always depresses the spring.

See:

http://www.novaksights.com/what's_new.htm#NOVAK_ONE_PIECE_BACK_STRAP_ANSWER

 

[SMMAssociates]

imp:

Have a look at:

http://www.m1911.org/interact.htm

for some idea of how the various 1911 safeties work. You will have to look a little closely, but the thumb safety is well labeled. The grip safety's business end is sort of shaped like a "P". The extended area blocks the trigger bow from moving the sear when the grip safety is disengaged. If the grip safety is engaged, it moves upward, and the trigger bow passes below the projection.

Regards,