1911s and derivatives.

[ralph7]

Actually, you don't. In fact, with most factory loads, you start to lose velocity when barrel lengths get up around 11-14 inches. The .45ACP is a pretty efficient cartridge and works well in the barrel lengths it was designed for. I was amazed when I shot my Camp carbine over the chrono and found the velocities were lower than than they were out of my Gov't model.

Interesting, I have a Camp 9 and wonder about the velocity enhancement.

 

[ralph7]

Finally I have a Star BM in 9mm. It has a great deal of similarity to the 1911, but in a slightly (and nicely) smaller package as it was designed as a 9mm from the start. It also has some nice refinements for concealed carry such as the bobbed grip frame. I like it a lot. They were available for $200-$250 range a few years ago, so I bought two of them, partly for back up/spare parts if I ever break one (which I doubt) but mostly for eventual gifting purposes. I picked up a third as a trade for a one day old and truly horrific S&W Bodyguard. It was interesting as I bought it during a sales event with S&W reps there. They were still there when I brought it back to trade it in as it was a piece of.
Trash Not exactly what they probably want at a sales event. The Star BM points well, has a decent trigger and all three of mine have proven to be very reliable with 115 and 124 gr FMJ as well as 115 and 124 gr XTPs. If I could find a decent set of night sights for them, they’d be a regular concealed carry pistol.

——-




Nothing fits my hand better than my Star BM.
You need a Star PD as well, great lightweight gun with adjustable sights, and still can be found at bargain prices.

 

[dsf]

Not sure about the height, but the Colt Defender has a 3" barrel and an alloy frame.

I have the Defender and its Officer sized grip makes it +3/4" longer than the Detonics. I had considered sending the gun to Terry Tussey for a reduction and CBOB but of course he's recently passed away.

Would be kind of a handful to hang on to, but I think it would be a heck of a CCW gun.

 

[texgun53]

Love those 1911's
I have several Colts and Springfields, but one of my favorites is this Colt Combat Target - 45 ACP, it was produced only one year, 1996 per Colt. It was manufactured using the Gold Cup frame and slide, with a matt blue/black finish, skeletonized non-adjustable trigger, duck bill grip safety, and wrap-around rubber grips.
The gun is a really good shooter, I had Dawson Precision install a fiber optic front sight - other than that it is all original

 

[ContinentalOp]

I have the Defender and its Officer sized grip makes it +3/4" longer than the Detonics. I had considered sending the gun to Terry Tussey for a reduction and CBOB but of course he's recently passed away.

Would be kind of a handful to hang on to, but I think it would be a heck of a CCW gun.

I'm a fan of Tussey's work. Got to meet and chat with him at a gun show back in the 90s. Even got to shoot one of his 1911s that an instructor let me try. I was sad to hear of his passing. However, his shop is still doing custom work. My understanding is that the current gunsmiths trained/apprenticed under Tussey. It might be worth checking out.

 

[Triggernosis]

bought my Ultra Carry NIB from the original purchaser who’d spent too much time on the internet being warned about short barrel 1911s and lost confidence in it before ever shooting it.

What kind of warning?

 

[31FordA]

I have owned many 1911 pistols over the years, but at this point I only have Colt’s and a Ithaca 1911A-1. The Colt’s include the 1991A-1 I got for my 21st birthday, a Gunsite, a 1939 1911A-1, a 1961 Gov’t Model, a satin stainless Combat Commander, and a few others.

I’d still like to add a few more Colt’s, when they turn up at a sane price. A Delta Elite is on the list, and one of the new Classic’s in .38 Super. I’d also like a pre 1924 Model 1911 to go with my 1911A-1’s. A CCO would be nice too. Oh, and a Union Switch & Signal 1911A-1. All it takes is money.

 

[ContinentalOp]

What kind of warning?

Short barrel 1911s have a reputation for being unreliable at worst, and finicky at best. Getting them to feed, extract, and eject reliably can be difficult because of the slide velocity. It can be a tricky balancing act. It's the reason many instructors and some pistolsmiths recommend going no shorter than Commander length in 1911s.

However, many people who own compact 1911s say their's are reliable, and it seems more recently produced models are better out of the box in that regard, but the stigma is still there for some people.

 

[colt_saa]

I love 1911s so much that I was born on John Moses Browning's birthday

I own more than I have photographed, but here are some of my favorites, both store bought and hand built

I am sticking to 1911s and not including derivatives in this thread

My BBQ gun is a Royal Blue Colt Gold Cup Commander wearing Factory Ivory and usually carried in a Galco Windsor holster. So far it has been to 5 funerals, 4 weddings and 3 Inaugurations

My carry Gold Cup Commander is stainless, wearing Factory walnut grips.

Here is a full size Gold Cup wearing factory Ivory

My stainless full size Gold Cup

Here is my Delta Gold Cup wearing Custom Shop Ebony grips

This is an Elite IV

Here is a USA Shooting Team Gold Cup

I like serial numbers. When Colt reintroduced the Series 70 1911's I got a hold of serial number 70. This one I have left unfired since it departed the factory. I have lots of other 1911s to shoot.

My US Military Academy BiCentennial Colt. These were only made availble to the graduating class and the instructors. This one is number 45

This is a Deluxe 20th Anniversary IPSC Commemorative

Here is a Colt Lieutenant Commander

I have got both the AMT Hardballer and AMT Javelina long slides

As other long slides go, I have a nice Les Baer TargetMaster

Followed by a Les Baer Concept VII

Back when 45 SUPER was just getting started, Springfield was one of the few companies selling guns specifically set up for the cartridge. I replaced the factory grips with a set of Ahernds

A few summers ago, I built THOR, a long slide for the 10MM Auto. It is fitted with an aristocrat sight, on a STI slide that was hand lapped to the frame. The trigger bow had ball bearings to reduce friction for a 100% safe and repeatable 2 1/2" pull. The oversize mag release is very obvious. Esmerelda O'Sheen scrimshawed Thor's hammer into the grips with her celtic knot checkering

For the 100th Anniversary of the 1911, many manufacturers were doing special pistols. The Kimber "Centennial" has a color case hardened frame from Doug Turnbul, some light engraving and Ivory stocks

I have quite a few additional Kimbers

Here is a Pro Eclipse

A double Stack Gold Match

The superbly accurate Super Match

This Pro Carry was my first Kimber

A Pro Elite and a Ultra CDP

Then there is my wide body 22 TCM pistol. What a hoot to shoot. 2000 FPS, almost no recoil and a beautiful fireball and deep throaty KaaaBOOM

 

[LPD256]

In the 70’s I bought my first 1911, a Colt Combat Commander. I loved that one but traded it away at some point. My first “modern” 1911 was a Kimber Crimson Carry with a 3 inch barrel. I took a lot of heat for being a snob because I bought an “over-priced” Kimber for around $1000. I’ve had various brands over time. Currently the ones I shoot most are my 9mm Dan Wesson Pointman, and my 9mm Dan Wesson Vigil. Today I realized I have a pretty good supply of .45acp ammunition because I guess I’ve sort of migrated to 9mm. I’m committing to get out the bigger bore guns and a 625 to put a dent in my supply. Can’t wait until I hit the range tomorrow.

 

[arjay]

Some Colts

And a Springfield

 

[Straightshooter2]

Esmerelda O'Sheen scrimshawed Thor's hammer into the grips with her celtic knot checkering

I love Esmerelda's Celtic knot checkering. The grips on my Combat Commander are cocobolo with the half Celtic checkering and a Celtic Cross instead of Thor's Hammer.

 

[.357magger]

I hate them...

not at all.

1991a1 Combat Commander a la Harrison
2002 Colt 1943 Reproduction
Early 2000s BSS Government Model
2005 Colt Combat Commander XSE

 

[dsf]

I'm a fan of Tussey's work. Got to meet and chat with him at a gun show back in the 90s. Even got to shoot one of his 1911s that an instructor let me try. I was sad to hear of his passing. However, his shop is still doing custom work. My understanding is that the current gunsmiths trained/apprenticed under Tussey. It might be worth checking out.

Thanks - I used to see him at the Reno shows when they were at the Hilton, GSR. Will check out the website.

 

[OLDSTER]

My "derivative " is this 1977 Detonics. A favorite of mine.

 

[Golddollar]

When I was growing up I used to read about the old time pistolsmiths like John Giles, Austin Behlert, Jim Clark and Bob Chow. So back in the 1990s, I received word about a Government Model .45 for sale. I went up to Hagerstown, MD to check it out, and here it was a target wadcutter gun with an extended front sight that was built by John Giles. Figuring that I needed all the help I could get for bullseye shooting, I bought it. That started a long period of acquisition of numerous guns customized by John Giles.

And then back in 2016, my brother and I were in a happy mood because of a good opinion that I received from the Cleveland Clinic. On the trip back to his house, we stopped at Mayfield Guns. There was a heavy long-slide Government Model that had been built by Jim Clark. I never thought I would ever see anything like that, much less have a chance to buy one. I ended up buying that and it became the first in a series of guns built up by the late Jim Clark.

 

[BB57]

What kind of warning?

Self appointed internet experts claim the short barreled/short slide 1911s are not reliable. That’s not the case.

The problem is that shooters buy one and then start trying to “upgrade” it. They’ll put in an extra power recoil spring, and or add a shock buffer, without understanding how it can change the dwell time and or slide over run distance for the slide in relation to the magazine well and feeding the next round.

It is true that the slide overrun is reduced on the officer model sized frame 1911s, but the slide over run is sufficient if they don’t mess with the springs or add a shock buffer. Simply put the engineering is a little different on the short frame 1911s and you can’t aftermarket pimp the internals like a full sized 1911.

The non custom shop Kimbers also often need a break in period to achieve full reliability and too many shooters will put a box through a new one, get a few failures to feed and declare it’s not reliable. My Ultra Carry is a good example as it took a couple hundred rounds before it was fully reliable - and has been relentlessly reliable ever since - provided the recoil spring is changed every 800-1000 rounds.

That’s another area where officer model frame sized 1911 owners often come up short in not realizing the recoil spring assemblies are shorter lived than in a full size 1911.

Finally, wanna be 1911 shooters in general don’t understand the effects of magazine lips and the difference the different lip designs make for ball, RNFP, hollow point and semi wad cutter ammunition.

For example the tapered lip magazine on the left was the standard GI magazine designed for 230 gr FMJ “ball” ammo. For the long 230 gr FMJ round nose bullet it provides silky smooth feeding with full controlled feed of the round. The long tapered lips allow the base of the round to rise gradually as the bullet rides up the feed ramp and it allows the rim to enter the extractor at a low angle.

The tapered feed lip design won’t with 100% reliability with a shorter hollow point, RNFP or semi wadcutter as the shorter OAL of the rounds cause the rim to rise too fast/too much before the nose starts to ride up the feed ramp. The end result is a percentage of rounds get driven into the feed ramp at too low an angle and hang up between the frame’s feed ramp and the barrel’s feed ramp.

Colt developed the hybrid lipped “commercial” magazine design (in the center) in the 1930s to allow shorter OAL rounds to feed better while still working well with the longer 230 gr FMJ. Most commercial 1911s today come with a hybrid lip magazine.

They slow the rise of the base and rim to allow for a better angle at the feed ramp with short OAL bullets. They also release the base of the round sooner to prevent an excessive angle with the longer 230 gr FMJ rounds at the cost of giving up some of the controlled feed and smoothness with 230 gr FMJs. They also don’t always feed well with really short 185 gr or lighter semi wad cutters as they still may not have enough up angle when they finally hit the feed ramp. But they are a good compromise for most commonly used factory loads.

The parallel lip or “wad cutter” mag (on the right) has straight, parallel lips that hold the rim down and then suddenly release it. These can cause big problems with 230 gr FMJs as the nose rides well up the feed ramp before the rim is allowed to rise into the extractor. This can cause the rim to jam in the extractor resulting in the round stopping the slide about 1/8” short of being in battery. Worse, it can cause the nose of the bullet to get driven into the space between the barrel and the top of the slide, creating a nasty 3 point jam that requires you to drop the magazine and rack the slide to clear.

With a short semi-wad cutter this feed lip design works well by holding the rim down and then releasing the rim shortly after the nose hits the feed ramp, keeping the angle steep enough to ride up the ramp, and shallow enough to get the bullet in the barrel.

There is also the Wilson 47D magazine that holds the round higher and flatter in front of the breech face. Basically it throws the round up in front of the slide and gives up pretending to be even partially controlled feed. The downside is that the rim often ends up in front of the extractor and the extractor then has to snap over the rim. The wad cutter and Wilson 47D mags are where you see gunsmiths relieving the extractor to both allow the steeper rim angle of the FMJ rounds to still enter the extractor with the wad cutter magazines, or snap over the rim with the 47D magazines.

In short, the combination of OAL, feed lips and extractor profile makes a difference and a shooter who doesn’t understand what’s going on will have less than perfect reliability - and then blame the gun. In Kimber terms, I’ve found nearly all Kimbers are very reliable when using Kimber magazines, unless you are using a really short semi wad cutter bullet, where a wad cutter lipped magazine might work better.

 

[Triggernosis]

Thanks a bunch for that info, BB57. I learned something today.

 

[hkcavalier]

Only two these days.

A 1944 Remington-Rand, one of the CMP guns.

A Kimber TLE with grips/mainspring housing my wife picked out (it's hers).