1917 "Buyers Guide"

MiGS

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At some point in the next few years I plan to bring a 1917 home. What kinds of things should I be on the look out for? Not just mechanics but possible frauds.

Any helpful hints would be appreciated or even just links to other threads I can check out.

Thanks all.
 
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You probably won't find any frauds, but the main things to look for would be to ensure matching serial numbers on butt, rear face of cylinder, under barrel, and right grip panel. Also, the tell-tale signs of a re-finish: Corners rounded when they should be sharp, blurred or weak stampings, wider gaps around the sideplate, and the gun will never be nickel plated. Also, trigger and hammer will not be blued. For a 1917, barrels will be 5-1/2" from front cylinder face to muzzle. Check timing and lockup carefully, also bore condition.
 
For good "Shooter" class guns, I like the 1937 Brazilian Contract sub species of that revolver. The pre war delivery guns are on a heat treated frame, were as some of the 1946 delivery guns are on left over WWI frames (search for the several threads on how to tell them apart). There are also Commercial models made (Model 1922 and M-22 Dash guns) Then there are the rare 1917 Targets (I think there are 5 factory guns and low numbers of non factory conversions including Springfield Arsenal conversions for the Army pistol team.) These are way to valuable to plink with.

If you are going to shoot your 1917, Stay away from +P ammo. The newest of the Military guns are almost 70 years old and most are closer to 100. On my shooter 1937 Brazilian contract gun, I left the original grips and lanyard ring, but added a Tyler T-Grip (a crescent shaped, finger grooved, piece of aluminum. This slides on in front of the frame and helps fill the hand for more comfortable shooting.

Probably the most common things wrong with Military 1917's, are the wrong grips and missing lanyard rings. These can be found at parts companies, it will cost you money and your gun won't be all original.

Collecting 1917's is a great pastime. Many guns saw service in both world wars, and some will have a family history to it also. Enjoy the quest. Ivan
 
The 1917 is the most common early N frame in these parts, and a number of the common issues have been addressed. One thing that has NOT been addressed, though, is defaced markings. There was a belief years ago that if a gun said "United States Property" or "US Army" on it, it WAS Government property and the owner was subject to arrest. So you see a goodly number of 1917s with the "U.S. Army" on the butt or the "United States Property" somehow obscured or defaced, and sometimes the serial number. The thought was you couldn't be charged with having stolen Government property if the gun didn't have a legible serial number.
 
There are 4 pretty distinct variations:
-early variation with grooved hammer, dished stocks, and "GSH" acceptance mark
-the typical 1917 without the grooved hammer, with plain stocks, and marked with a "flaming bomb" acceptance
-the Brazilian navy contracts, as referenced above
-the commercial variations that were produced on "left over" military frames

It all depends on the condition of the revolver, but:
-typically the Brazilian marked revolvers are less expensive, but very hard to find in better than "shooter grade" condition, easy to identify because they have the "crest" on the side plate.
-lots of nice "typical 1917" examples out there and one can almost always find a few on sale at any given time on the auction sites, priced somewhat according to condition but mostly according to moon phase or some other cosmic, unfathomable method....patience is required if you're looking for a reasonably priced example in very good to excellent condition
-the earliest SN guns with grooved hammer, etc. show up about one in ten or so guns for sale, again much patience is required. It took me a couple of years to find my most recent early model (SN 704x, 95% condition, I paid $855 for it a couple weeks back in an auction, and I'm still pinching myself to see if I dreamed it). These will mostly sell for a $200 to maybe $400 premium over the flaming bomb marked guns.
-there are fewer commercials out there and they are priced accordingly. I haven't been able to find the right one yet, and it's hard to say a price range, since I've only seen a few sold in the past year or so.

Many of the US marked guns were arsenal refinished, but they are easy to spot since they were "parkerized". Lots of 1917's have also been commercially re-finished and the typical polishing evidence will show up.

Lots have mis-matched stocks. Check the bottom corners for fit, and the SN marked in the right stock (pencil) will indicate if original to the gun.

When you inspect the gun before firing, check timing and cylinder play as indicated in comments above.

There really isn't much to "fake" about these. There were lots of them made, there were lots of surplus guns sold off and the relatively scarce early version is still pretty common. Smart 1917 buying, in my opinion, is a matter of examining for originality, an inspection period/right to return if you can't examine it in person before paying, and exercising patience so you don't over-pay by several hundred dollars. It pays to sit and watch the market for a while to get some idea of condition vs. selling price. Beware the seller who exhibits more enthusiasm than knowledge and tries to sell you a re-finished Brazilian at a commercial gun price.

Good luck!
 
Thanks again.
I know now, that for me, the one to have is the early GSH variation!
 
Oh man... I started looking at 1917s (and I knew nothing about them!) after I purchased my first HE last week. I am a sucker for .45 and firearms used in war. I am looking forward to gaining knowledge on this fantastic piece.


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One important thing mentioned earlier was defaced stampings on the butt - ground off, filed off, polished off, etc. I have seen more than a few of those, and they are to be avoided like Ebola. Those who are trying to sell them will always pooh-pooh any concerns about legality. They are lying.
 
A pretty fair example of the typical 1917 (flaming bomb acceptance mark, plain stocks, later hammer type). (Sellers photo, I haven't gotten around to taking many pics lately):


This one is the early gun I referenced above (SN 704X) w/ grooved hammer, GSH acceptance stamp, dished stocks (numbered to the gun in faint pencil) which I "lucked into" at the princely sum of $855. This is the sellers photo...it looks better after it was "cleaned up":
 
One important thing mentioned earlier was defaced stampings on the butt - ground off, filed off, polished off, etc. I have seen more than a few of those, and they are to be avoided like Ebola. Those who are trying to sell them will always pooh-pooh any concerns about legality. They are lying.
I thought that as long as the serial number is untouched, you're good.
 
I just bought this Military 1917. I know it is not a "perfect" piece but I want to confirm what I found. Serial # shows it was made in Dec 1917. Cylinder serial # does not match and was made in Mar 1919. Grips are not original for this early variation of the 1917 but the hammer is grooved and the GHS stamp is there. What puzzles me is the barrel. The finish does not match the frame. Barrel is more "blued" while the frame is more "military" finish. There is NO serial number under the extractor but there is an "S" with a small "H". The barrel is stamped "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" and "S&W DA 45". The action is tight and overall the gun is in great shape for its age. I think the barrel was a replacement from existing military stock. Any ideas???
 

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the only thing I'll add is like most milsurp guns the sooner you get it the less you will pay and you'll have more to pick from.the longer you wait the more it will cost this stuff has been climbing in price the past couple of years and the old S&W and Colts have gone though the roof.glad I got mine when I did
 
I was fortunate enough to luck into a 'near perfect' M1917 a few years back. It was so nice, that I decided to not shoot it(something I rarely do)

A great natural stand-in for a shooter is a M1937 Brazilian. Found one parked (thanks WCCPHD) and it's a great shooter.

NOW - I'd like to get a Colt M1917.
 

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A great thread!
Have researched my 1917 (shipped from S&W Dec 1919) and still a little confused. Has serial numbers in right places except for butt, probably reblued. GHS stamped. Will get some photos made and wide open for assistance.
 
Miltary 1917s

I got very lucky a couple of weeks ago. I got a Colt 1917 in near perfect condition and didn't pay full value price for it. Of all places I got it on the Gander Mountain website.
 
Miltary 1917s Continued

See attached for photo comparison
 

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A great thread!
Have researched my 1917 (shipped from S&W Dec 1919) and still a little confused. Has serial numbers in right places except for butt, probably reblued. GHS stamped. Will get some photos made and wide open for assistance.

Welcome to the Forum. I encourage you to start your thread with your 1917.

BTW, how are things in Hoover? I worked in Bessemer for 23 plus years and had dealings with some of Hoover's finest over the years.
 

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