1917 or 455HE, or hybrid?

[swampersand]

I have a well rusted/reblued revolver with British Proofs and a 6 1/2" Bbl. that is marked "45 AC" with the C in a subscript position. Without a moonclip, a 45 ACP round will drop into the cylinder and stop about 1/32" below the cylinder face. The SN is 24444 and is marked on the extractor, the bbl and the frame. The cylinder seems to have been refaced years ago removing the SN that would have been there. It almost seems that the unit was a anchor before being reblued; should I return it to that service?? I'd show pics, but for now I'm ashamed to have anyone see it. Oh, and the checkered diamond grips have a brass medallion. and there is a "10" stamped on the butt in a much larger font than the SN, probably a unit assigned number?

 

[swampersand]

I have a well rusted/reblued revolver with British Proofs and a 6 1/2" Bbl. that is marked "45 AC" with the C in a subscript position. Without a moonclip, a 45 ACP round will drop into the cylinder and stop about 1/32" below the cylinder face. The SN is 24444 and is marked on the extractor, the bbl and the frame. The cylinder seems to have been refaced years ago removing the SN that would have been there. It almost seems that the unit was a anchor before being reblued; should I return it to that service?? I'd show pics, but for now I'm ashamed to have anyone see it. Oh, and the checkered diamond grips have a brass medallion. and there is a "10" stamped on the butt in a much larger font than the SN, probably a unit assigned number?

 

[Muley Gil]

Sounds like a rechambered 2nd model hand ejector that was originally a .455.

I'll bet I have an uglier gun than you do!!!

 

[swampersand]

Sounds plausible, but where would the .455 caliber be marked on the original? I don't see any evidence of an altered stamping or one specifically removed.

Re the ugliest gun, I think we may have another thread lurking here, but I'm still not up to posting on it; maybe when the pain subsides.

 

[Robert W. Simms]

The .455 caliber designation on later HE2's is on the left side of the barrel but the earlier ones, including your serial number range, have no caliber markings at all.

Someone evidently attempted to provide .45 acp markings on yours to show it had been converted.

-Bob

 

[swampersand]

Bob, Thanks for your information. I marvel at the knowledge base represented on this forum. I hope you didn't spend the night researching this. Posting at 5:00 am is sort of beyond the call. Thanks again

 

[handejector]

Hi,
One of these was just discussed in this thread:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/540103904/m/6241053162
The data might be interesting to you.

 

[Buford57]

This place is a real education. I had wondered about the absence of original caliber markings on my converted .455 HE. It is earlier still than swampersand's at 125XX, so that explains it.

 

[handejector]

Originally posted by Buford57:
This place is a real education. I had wondered about the absence of original caliber markings on my converted .455 HE. It is earlier still than swampersand's at 125XX, so that explains it.

Don't be surprised if you encounter a high-number 2nd Model without a caliber marking. With the "batch system" S&W used on parts and frames, a few early barrels got used late in production. If the finish matches and the number is right, don't worry about it- S&W and the Brits didn't!

 

[Buford57]

I hadn't thought of it, but caliber markings on military arms of that era do seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Whoever did my conversion got it right. Respectable "combat" accuracy with hardball and an action you'd pay extra for today.

 

[PZ93C]

SN 8704 doesn't have calibre markings either.

It's rechambered .45 Colt.

 

[ButchG17]

Originally posted by swampersand:
I have a well rusted/reblued revolver with British Proofs and a 6 1/2" Bbl. that is marked "45 AC" with the C in a subscript position.

FWIW, it appears that the .45 ACP cartridge was originally called the '.45 Automatic Colt', which might explain the barrel marking and maybe date the conversion?

Without a moonclip, a 45 ACP round will drop into the cylinder and stop about 1/32" below the cylinder face. The SN is 24444 and is marked on the extractor, the bbl and the frame. The cylinder seems to have been refaced years ago removing the SN that would have been there.

This information would seem to show that it is not now chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge though. Have you tried a .45 Colt in it?

 

[handejector]

quote:
Without a moonclip, a 45 ACP round will drop into the cylinder and stop about 1/32" below the cylinder face. The SN is 24444 and is marked on the extractor, the bbl and the frame. The cylinder seems to have been refaced years ago removing the SN that would have been there.

This information would seem to show that it is not now chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge though. Have you tried a .45 Colt in it?

Actually, the 45 ACP will drop into an UNALTERED 455 cyl about 1/8" below flush, so about 1/16" on a faced off cyl would be about right. The 455 chamber is plenty long for the 45ACP without being lengthened.

 

[swampersand]

Just tried a .45 Long Colt in the chambers and the chamber is about 5/16" too shallow to accept the round. THe cylinder itself ia about 1.54" long, about the same as my commercial 1917 and pre-22. The troats on the cylinders are 0.456" and I think the old .45 Automatic Colt referenced by ButchG17 is probably right on. I'll put a minimum load in some .45 ACP rounds and see how it behaves. For now i'll go back and correct all of my records to reflect the .455 HE background instead of 1917. TDhanks again to all. I'll copy this tread and the one referenced by Handejector and put them in the database for this revolver. AND, because you have all been so nice, I'll reluctantly post a picture of this highly experienced revolver so you all can have a chuckle. (well, I felt sorry for it)

 

[Muley Gil]

Mine is still uglier.

Do you have a picture of the caliber stamping?

 

[DWFAN]

Jeweled trigger and hammer. Someone thought highly of this revolver at one time. Sorry to tell you but you won't get any ugliest gun award this time. You'll have to try a lot harder. To bad this gun can't tell it's story. It has one.
DW

 

[Robert W. Simms]

Sounds like you intend to reload for the old gun. Good. If you want to optimize your reloads then use a .45 Colt resizing die and use .45 acp dies for the belling, seating, & crimping operations. The .45 Colt and .455 cases are almost exactly the same diameter (and both are larger in diameter than .45 acp), so you will avoid the case swelling that occurs when you fire .45 acp ammo.

Also, use a 255 grain .454" diameter bullet to maximize accuracy and get the grouping closer to the point of aim. The original .455 Webley bullet was 265 grains.

According to several sources S&W produced the .455 HE2 using existing tooling on hand for the .45 Colt caliber so, if true, the bore diameter should be closer to .454" anyway.

-Bob

 

[PZ93C]

Bore diameter should be close, if not dead on, with .45 Colt.

I shoot Winchester cowboy loads in mine and have excellent accuracy.

 

[swampersand]

You guys are a gold mine! I will post a picture of the caliber stamping sometime this evening. For the reloading, I have some 250Grain .454 Oregon Trail bullets and both 45LC and ACP dies. I'll follow your advice, but I have become partial to the Lee factory crimp dies because I don't crush my brass and I am pretty new at reloading. I don't give the round a heavy crimp, maybe 1/3 to 1/2 a turn after contact. While I am at it, do any of you know why a civilian model 1917 would have a flat milled at the back of the top strap as though a target sight was going to be installed, but no holes in the strap? I'll post a picture of that as well.

-a bit later: Here are the photos first is the caliber mark per Muley Gil's request

and then the "notch"- SN on 1917 Commercial is 178275 neighborhood.

 

[wilshire1412]

Here is mine, .455 conversion to .45ACP/AR and a cut down barrel.