1917 Wierd topstrap

[swampersand]

Somehow I screwed up and posted a picture of this 1917 topstrap on another thread I was working. Tried to save a stamp, I guess. Anyhow, this Model 1917 was a commercial model, I thought, because I couldn't see any evidence of military marks. The seller also thought it was a commercial model. A knowledgeable professional looked at it today and pointed out that in addition to the strange topstrap, there was an eagle stamped on the yoke and crane with "S2" stamped under it. (see pictures below). The question is, did Springfield Armory work on this gun? Notice that the notch milled across the back of the topstrap is slightly undercut co that there is a shadow line providing a nice sight picture. Does anyone have a clue on what may be going on here? I will letter the gun unless the guy who did this work confesses. SN is about 178275

Checkered topstrap and notch:

Eagle & S2 Stamps

If you can't figure out the picture above, it is because I laid the crane against the barrel to photo it and the ejector rod latch on the barrel lug is showing.

 

[swampersand]

Somehow I screwed up and posted a picture of this 1917 topstrap on another thread I was working. Tried to save a stamp, I guess. Anyhow, this Model 1917 was a commercial model, I thought, because I couldn't see any evidence of military marks. The seller also thought it was a commercial model. A knowledgeable professional looked at it today and pointed out that in addition to the strange topstrap, there was an eagle stamped on the yoke and crane with "S2" stamped under it. (see pictures below). The question is, did Springfield Armory work on this gun? Notice that the notch milled across the back of the topstrap is slightly undercut co that there is a shadow line providing a nice sight picture. Does anyone have a clue on what may be going on here? I will letter the gun unless the guy who did this work confesses. SN is about 178275

Checkered topstrap and notch:

Eagle & S2 Stamps

If you can't figure out the picture above, it is because I laid the crane against the barrel to photo it and the ejector rod latch on the barrel lug is showing.

 

[depicts]

I can't wait to hear what some of our experts say.

To my uneducated eye, it almost looks like a cut out for an adjustable sight. It also looks like there is some kind of round screw head or something just to the left of the hammer. Could someone explain that too?

Thanks

 

[digi-shots]

I'm pretty sure the "eagle head" is a military acceptance stamp.

Just curious.. what side of the frame is the S&W logo.. left or right?

 

[swampersand]

The mark just to the left of the hammer is a small nick, probably the owner bumped it against his Bugatti.

 

[swampersand]

Just curious.. what side of the frame is the S&W logo.. left or right?

The logo is about 3/8" in diameter and is located on the left side, below the cylinderlatch.

 

[Jebus35745]

Kurt had this gun over my house last nite and we couldn't figure it out. The expert was the local gun shop Kurt and try to beat each other to so we have first dibs at whats new. The work on this gun is well executed and the under cut on the rear sight could reduce glare. Hope someone has a similar gun and knows what this is. Larry

 

[DHENRY]

swampersand,
It appears to be a commercial model that someone modified.
The flat-top topstrap was made even more-so with the cross-hatching.
The undercutting at the rear appears to be an attempt to make a better or larger sight picture.
A start to an effort to mount an adjustable rear sight? Perhaps.
That undercut angle just might have been an attempt to minimize glare.
Interesting.
Don

 

[panamajack310]

Hi, I well here is my 2 cents....The eagle head with the S2 under it is one of the military inspector stampings... serial # range from 1-209791 were produced between 1917-1946.. your serial number falls in this range..The commercial #'s have an "S" prefix on the serial number...As far as the top strap goes....that was not done from the factory...that is something that was done by some one.. the topstrap should have a rounded groove for the fixed rear sights..It looks to me as if some one cut out the topstrap square to get a better sight channel...The cut out just above the hammer as probably done to get rid of the origional rounded fixed sight and possibly add an adjustable sight...just my 2 cents

 

[Muley Gil]

Only postwar N frames have a "S" prefix.(Not counting Victories with the SV numbers or the postwar K frames.)

 

[Geezer]

Serial 178892 shipped in June of 1925, fwiw.
Rob

 

[handejector]

What you have is an early 1917 Commercial. The eagle head IS a military inspection mark- only meaning that is a LEFTOVER WW I frame. That is no big deal, since most early 1917 Commercials, as well as the early 44 Second Models, are built on leftover WW I frames.
As Muley said, NO S&W models have an S prefix till 1945-46.
S&W did not come out with the improved "square" or flat top frames till about 1927-28.
The shooting public had become aware of the shortcomings of the small, rounded sights that S&W's had, and that was one reason for the change S&W made.
Many people were undercutting FRONT sights to prevent glare. King later made some undercut front blades. Walter Roper did some undercut fronts also.
So, since that gun had the small rear groove in the round-top frame, someone decided to improve the sight picture by flattening the frame top, squaring the groove, and undercutting and cross-hatching the top to reduce glare. It was NOT an attempt to mount an adjustable sight.
Did they do anything to the front sight??
How about a pic of the whole gun?

 

[swampersand]

Here are add'l pictures, sorry for the overload, but I keep missing things and maybe this will cover the details. The grips are unmarked and there are no unusual marks on the frame under the grips. What should I list as a value for this in my records? Any idea of how many are made like this?

PS: Many have referred to an "eagle head" inspector mark, is this what is called and eagles head?, kinda looks like the whoe eagle

 

[digi-shots]

ok, here's 2 more cents...

Eagle head, military & probably leftover

S&W stamp on left... commercial?

 

[handejector]

Yep, that is a garden variety 1917 Comm from the early 20's or so.
Yep, they modified the front sight also. It was originally a smooth half-moon. Neat work.

What should I list as a value for this in my records?

I would say around $450-500.

The grips are unmarked

The grips are proper for the period, and probably original judging by the fit. In that time, they are numbered with a pencil, above screw hole on right grip. Try different kinds of light, and you might read part or all of the number.

Any idea of how many are made like this?

If you mean 1917 Commercials, a bunch. If you mean the sight alterations, who knows? It is NOT factory work.

 

[swampersand]

Thanks for all of the expertise! I'll start looking for regular stuff so I don't keep tapping your collective brains. I wonder what people did before forums like this. I imagine they wrecked a lot of nice specimens of various models.