What type of info would be on a factory letter for a gun sold to the government? Would it detail where the gun was shipped or just say it was sold to the Army? I purchased a very early example and would like to know its history.
1st year 1917
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opoefc
US Veteran
The factory letter for a military contract Model 1917 will give the date the gun was shipped to the Gov't Arsenal, and the configuration of the gun at that time ( 5 in. Bbl., blue, smooth stocks, etc ) Any history after that will have to come form US national archives for the military. If you're lucky, sometimes the seller will know it's post S&W history , like " Grandpa was issued this revolver and brought it home after the war, etc " Ed.
I've already heard a story about it but I put no faith in it as I got it from a guy who got it from a guy if you know what I mean. I didn't pay for the story. I'll request a letter once this damn hurricane goes away.
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More than likely it will just say that it was shipped to the Springfield Armory and the date.
That would be a shame, of course I don't know what I'm expecting. Does anybody know what the lowest know surviving serial number is?
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There was/is a US military handgun database online in which you could enter a serial number, and if available it would give you any information about the location and/or unit to which it was issued. I haven't used it for several years and have no idea if the website is still operational (or free).
Edit to add: I think this is the site but none of the links seem to work.
U.S. Military Firearms Manufacture Dates
Edit to add: I think this is the site but none of the links seem to work.
U.S. Military Firearms Manufacture Dates
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I did some searching on this forum and found a thread about serial #13
S&W 1917 Serial #13(PIC HEAVY)(UPDATE SEE LAST POST NEW PICS)(Letter Update Last Pic)
S&W 1917 Serial #13(PIC HEAVY)(UPDATE SEE LAST POST NEW PICS)(Letter Update Last Pic)
You might find this interesting:
1917 PRODUCTION and FEATURE Changes SUMMARY
Military 1917s are in the #1 thru # 169959 (the estimated last military #) range but with only 163,635 revolvers completed and delivered by or in 1918, and approximately 7,300 revolvers were delivered partially completed and were not counted in the 163,635 figure. As usual with S&W, revolvers were not completed in order of their serial numbers and all numbers were not used. All were shipped to Springfield Armory.
Both S&W (7300 frames) and Colt were allowed to purchase M1917 revolvers left over when their rebuild contracts were terminated at the end of WWII.* (Pate, see below for full text.)
Most early WWI 1917s are marked "GHS" in a circle, (Gilbert H. Stewart), Gov't inspector, left side frame up near the hammer serial number range 1-42000. There's also a GHD Guy H. Drewry inspector from 1930-1957 (with various increasing ranks in front of his name), who was in charge of the Hartford Ordnance District and under whose authority and name, ordnance contractors stationed at the S&W factory inspected guns both for Lend-lease and for ASP (Army Supply Program) contracts.
Middle range guns are marked with a flaming bomb, beginning c. #42000 to April 1918.
Late war time produced guns are marked in various locations with an eagle head over an "S" followed by a number like S1, S2, S3, S4, S6, S9, S24, S27, S34, etc., from April 1918 to war's end. These marks are inspector marks used on Military guns which are also marked "United States Property" on the underside of the barrel.
The butt of the gun will have a two line serial number (when over 3 digits) and U.S. Army Model 1917 in four lines as well as a lanyard ring (which is the earliest version; polished and case colored, not sandblasted and blued). "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" is roll stamped under the front end of the barrel.
Earliest have smooth, concave round top stocks and circular hammer grooves up to about #15,000. Although, many have been observed sporadically up to the #20,000 range. As with all things S&W, there is seldom a specific serial number cut off. Deletion of the stocks w/concave top and the hammer grooves were of the earliest changes.
Most 1917 military issue have round top straps and a U notch rear sight. Later built frames with early #s have been observed with flat top strap and square notch rear sight; example #113934. It is not known when this change was initiated. However, cumulative wisdom is that the flat-top strap with Sq notch rear sight revision came to the N-frame in the 1926/1927 time frame.
War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos nor even commercial models (nor did any hand ejectors following the war until ~ 1920).
ARSENAL REBUILD: If there's an extra large stamped # up to 5 digits (sometimes with an R or S) in the yoke, yoke cut out, under the barrel, or all three places, it's an arsenal # indicating an arsenal rebuilt gun. The R may be found on the frame left side as well. Examples: Tryig to identify 1917 Revolver & http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...-my-1917-hand-ejector-45-a.html#post139209650
"WW I U.S. 1917 hammers and triggers are slightly different from later N frame parts." Lee Jarrett.
And will work in triple locks.
Cylinder hold open detent:
In my experience military 1917s had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. The cyl hold open detent went away on all frames after WW II with the usual few exceptions that had frames/yokes made pre war. It's been reported that some 1917s do not have the detent as a war time expedient, but of the hundreds of 1917s I've seen all did or at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room.
bananaman
Member
Where might pictures be? We would like to see some. Bob
Follow the links here for your information..1910 Hammerless
