218 Bee question

[HAWKEYE10]

I bought a Winchester model 43 in 218 Bee and with it came a set a RCBS dies and some brass. The dies are old as is the brass. Just about all the brass have flatten primers and some show signs of separating about 1/4 inch from the base. Just giving a little history now the question. The expander in the sizing die isn't expanding the case mouth enough for me to start the bullet even after I bevel the case mouth. I am using .224 bullets. Thanks

Don

 

[SOFMatchstaff]

Check the diameter of the expander ball, the early dies that I had for the Hornet and Bee were spec'd for the .222/.223 dia bullets, and later my 5.7x28 die set came with a .218 dia exp ball..even though the bore dia is .224 You need a .222 dia ball .

the Win 43's and the Savage 23D did stretch the cases a bit in Hornet and 25/20, and the BEE too.. The ball dia is most likely going to be the cure.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I own a 43 Winnie I inherited from my dad when he passed a couple years ago. He owned it from new and never shot it much until I got him into handloading. He tried alll sorts of loads from mild to full power, but settled on mild to medium loads to help his brass last longer. The 43 is known for stretching brass due to the rear lock up design, but they are quite accurate with good loads. Just don't try to hotrod it and the cases last pretty well.

He had both Lee and RCBS dies for it, which he bought in the late '80's and early '90's, and which I now have. He had a bit better luck with the RCBS dies as far as loading went. He has so much ammo loaded when he died, that i have yet to need to reload for it. He had no issues with the expander ball in either set of dies as far as not sizing the necks correctly.

 

[mtgianni]

Slug the barrel or have a gunsmith do so.

 

[rwsmith]

I would only use that brass....

I would only use that brass for mild loads (and get rid of the ones that look overworked) If some are showing signs of separation the others are probably not far behind it.

 

[papajohn428]

Pitch the old brass and start out with new stuff, case separations are no fun at all. If you can't find any 218 brass you can always buy 25-20 or 32-20 and neck it down, Winchester only does a run of 218 brass every 4-5 years and it tends to dry up pretty fast. I necked down 25-20's, since it isn't that much of a difference, and they came out looking funny but fireformed just fine. Enjoy that rifle, I think the Bee is badly under-appreciated.

I'm thinking of having my Marlin 1894CL reamed to the Mashburn configuration, for improved ballistics and better brass life.

 

[Streaker]

I reload for the 22 Hornet. The cases are very thin and I was initially having problems seating the bullet without damaging the case. I purchased a separate adjustable neck expansion die and have not had any problems since.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I shoot 218 in a Ruger #1. The brass isn't going to handle any form of hot load, and max loads will only be good for 1 or 2 loadings. Forget necking down 32-20, there is way too much neck material to mess with for the normal hand loader, but virgin 25-20 should be fine. For good loading data the Lyman accuracy loads in the 45th manual have turned out very good in bot jacketed and cast. I wold recommend you get 200 brass all at once so it is same dimensions to start with. I had virgin Winchester brass from the 50's thru the 90's and every era was a little different, maybe look for Star Brass. With Very good spitzer flat base bullets, match primers and H4227, I get 5/16" or less 5 shot groups at 100 yds. My dies are RCBS made in '02 and work fine. Good luck, Ivan

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I've been shooting a Winchester Model 43 in .218 Bee for quite a few years. Great rifles!

Pitch the old brass. .218 Bee is based on the .25-20 cartridge necked down to .22 caliber. The brass is relatively thin and not really very strong. Case head separations are very annoying (I've had it happen in the chamber as well as in the reloading sizer die), caused by stresses in the brass due to pressure and repeated reforming. Try to obtain a stuck case remover if you can.

Much of the early reloading data contains questionable information and some really high pressures can result. Stick with modest loads.

Contact a RCBS dealer and get a new expander button. Or, better yet, pick up the Lyman "M" die and use that for neck expansion, then you can very accurately expand necks and seat bullets precisely.

Be sure and trim your brass. Even new cases are frequently over maximums. I run each new batch of cases through the case trimmer to minimums (1.335"), reload them a maximum of 6 times, then I crush them and discard them.

My rifle likes the Remington .45 grain spitzer .224" seated to 1.650" OAL with 14.0 grains IMR-4198 (suggest a starting load of 13 grains and watch primers and case head expansion as you work up). About 2550FPS and groups under at 1 to 1.5" at 100 yards from the bench.

WEAR HEARING PROTECTION! These little cartridges make a very sharp "crack" when fired and can give you a headache.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I dug out my Lyman 45th edition and some notes. For starters I bought a box of early 2000's factory ammo. It shot 1.5-2" at 50 yards. So I got out my 45th edition Lyman and loaded their accuracy load for 45 grain cast w/GC (bullet #225438) 10 gr IMR4227 at 2227+/-fps. It shot less than 1/2" @ 50 and less than 1" @ 100. I then loaded 50gr Nosler solid base (discontinued) over 12.5 IMR4227 & Fed 205M primer, at 2617 +/-fps and it does one hole @ 100yds. I have also shot this load off hand @ 100yds in a .55" group. All my loads are 1.680 OAL and I've found IMR and H 4227 are interchangeable. I am using a Sierra 50 gr spitzer flat base since I ran out of the Nosler solid base. I shoot 218 Bee, 22 Hornet, and 221 Fireball for varmints under 250, and enjoy my Ruger #1 in Bee the best. I like the Mashburn idea, but If I want more speed I go to 223 Rem, as I can get much better brass. Enjoy your 218 bee bolt gun, and let the ground hogs beware! Ivan