.22 LR for SD. FMJ (CRN) or HP?

[USAF385]

My girlfriend wants to get a .22 for self defense.

First of all..... the obvious issue here is the caliber. Unfortunately, her .380 is too uncomfortable for her to use so she wants something smaller. She has fired .22s and enjoys them, so she really wants a .22 LR despite my (and her father's) efforts to convince her to use shooting gloves for practice (she was wearing gloves the last time she shot it and it still hurt her). I guess it's gotten to the point where I'm saying a .22 would be better than nothing.

My question: High velocity of course, but FMJ (the copper round nose rather) or HP? Will a hollow point really expand enough to make a difference? Or should a FMJ be used for more penetration?

 

[Class III]

If she experiencing pain from the recoil of a 380 have her try a 32. If that is still too much for her then I would try a 22 Mag before going to a 22LR. Not much difference in the recoil between a 22LR and a 22WMR but the velocity is much greater from a 22WMR offering greater penetration and chance for the slug to mushroom. I read an article a few years ago about the stopping power of the 22WMR and I will say it suprised my that it was as good a man stopper as it is.

Hope this helps.

Class III

 

[Treeman]

Given the extreme rarity of jacketed .22lr bullets I will presume that you mean round nose lead bullets(perhaps copper washed) vs hollowpoints. I choose the NON hollowpoint. Penetration trumps expansion unless/until you have oomph for both. BTW the .22 is a better defensive cartidge than a lot of folks give it credit for.

 

[SWAT Lt.]

I doubt the HP will expand out of a handgun, but I'd go with a quality (not bulk pack) RN anyway like the MiniMag or Super X. The possible exception being CCI's Velocitor. It's better than nothing.

 

[perpster]

Not exactly answering your question, but make sure she gets something with as much capacity as possible so she can make up in # of rounds what the .22 LR lacks in energy. If she is so recoil sensitive a semi-auto might be better for her than a revolver. But make sure whatever you get feeds, fires and ejects the chosen carry ammo without malfunctions. .22's are notoriously ammo picky. Good Luck.

 

[Krull]

My advice:get a revolver since that won't booger up like a semi can and if it misfires she can just squeeze the trigger again.

Like others have said try WMR first and see how she likes that,and one last thing get GOOD ammo like RWS,Elly or CCI mini mags.

Some may diss the .22 but also do so with the .380 and both of those have put a lot of folks in the ground.

 

[Steve C]

I agree with Krull that a revolver would be a better choice for defense with the .22 LR or Mag, specially for a woman who may have trouble with clearing drills.

The biggest weakness with rim fire ammo is its reliability isn't as good as center fire. Often the priming compound isn't distributed around the entire rim so when the firing pin hits the shell in the wrong spot it doesn't go off. Other times the priming compound breaks away from the rim and isn't there to set the round off. Better and more expensive ammo has few problems than cheap or bulk ammo but I've seen a few misfires with $7 to $10 a box of match grade ammo, not many but a few.

With a DA revolver you just pull the trigger and the next round lines up and fires rather than having to clear the chamber.

Despite all the talk about the need for penetration in actual shooting the HP's do a little better with hyper velociy HP's like CCI Stingers being the best. See 22 Long Rifle Stopping Power. The main thing is to shoot until the threat is gone or you run out of ammo. I wouldn't pick a .22 lr to arm myself for gun fight if I could avoid it but anyone who would pick a fight with a person armed even with a .22 lr is a fool. I've read several stories about bad guys who wound up DOA because they didn't have the sense to respect the lethality of a .22 lr.

A gun like my little 9 shot .22 LR Taurus below would be a good pistol for your situation. You only give up one round to a semi auto and its way more reliable. Used guns made by H&R or Hi Standard can be found from under $300 and top quality S&W kit guns can be had for around $400 to $500.

 

[steveno]

I would use CCI Velocitors

 

[TSQUARED]

My girlfriend wants to get a .22 for self defense.

First of all..... the obvious issue here is the caliber. Unfortunately, her .380 is too uncomfortable for her to use so she wants something smaller. She has fired .22s and enjoys them, so she really wants a .22 LR despite my (and her father's) efforts to convince her to use shooting gloves for practice (she was wearing gloves the last time she shot it and it still hurt her). I guess it's gotten to the point where I'm saying a .22 would be better than nothing.

My question: High velocity of course, but FMJ (the copper round nose rather) or HP? Will a hollow point really expand enough to make a difference? Or should a FMJ be used for more penetration?

The caliber is not ideal. If you must use a 22, then get a S&W 617 10 shot revolver. Semi auto's in 22LR van be a pain in the neck with feeding problems. In the early 1960's a quirk of the law permitted shooting deer in southern Michigan with rimfire ammo. The 22 RF Magnum became an instant success until the law was changed. Many deer were shot and killeed with those 22's.

 

[walnutred]

What kind of self defense is she thinking of? If she is talking about something she plans on carrying on her person she might be looking at a different firearm than if she's thinking about a house gun. For years my main house gun was a Rossi 22mag pump rifle. Everyone in the family could shoot it well and thought it was fun enough that they actually liked to practice with it.

Most smallish 22 revolvers I've handled had stiff trigger pulls in DA mode, which could be a problem for her. If your going 22 mag in a revolver invest in very good hearing protection for her as they are LOUD.

But to answer your question if I was buying 22 LR ammo for self defense it would be CCI Stingers.

 

[Erich]

I've worked on several shooting cases in which the .22 LR was used. It can be effective, but penetration is a real concern and I would not want to use hollowpoints or lighter-than-normal bullets because of it. As mentioned, reliability of both feeding and ignition are real concerns as well.

 

[Roca]

I shoot a fair amount of varmints (mostly small, but occasionally the not quite dead, vehicle-struck coyote) with my 317 kit gun. I've tried about every kind of 22LR ammo I have ever heard of and had my best luck with penetration, "wound effect", and reliable ignition with CCI Velocitors. The really light HPs tend to stop with no penetration if they expand which is a surprisingly high percentage of the time, more than I ever would have thought.

 

[H Richard]

Regarding the 22 Mag. I have read an article (can't remember where) that tested 22Mag from short barreled revolvers. Since 22 Mag was designed for a rifle, the powder used doesn't burn effectively in a short barrel, and therefore was little if any advantage over a 22 RF High Velocity. I believe the CCI Velocitors would be better, or the Winchester Super X Hyper Speed HP at 1435 fps. (I've been amazed how accurate the Hyper Speed's are, and they have a 40 grain bullet where a lot of the High Speed ones have 32 or less grain.)

 

[kenpofan]

I can't add much to the advice given except if she is going to carry a .22 LR or a .22 mag.
She needs to practice and then practice some more as shot placement will be at a premium.

IMHO.

 

[guy sajer]

Here's a pretty good site . Test gun is the Taurus PT22 .

GoldenLoki.com

 

[sigp220.45]

I always thought something like this High Standard Sentinel would be a decent enough blaster for the very recoil sensitive -

I'd go for the .22 Mag version - even though the terminal ballistics may not be much better than the long rifle, the report is ridiculously LOUD. If nothing else, nine of those mini-nuclear blasts will certainly draw plenty of attention.

 

[Erich]

Ahem.

In response to some posts wondering about the question, I can tell you with the authority of my chrono behind me that .22 Mag certainly outperforms .22 LR when both are fired from the same length barrel. I would note that comparing .22 Mag numbers from a handgun to .22 LR numbers from a rifle (or an ammo company's test barrel) seems silly.

 

[OKFC05]

Here's another thought:

Get a professional instructor to teach her how to shoot .38 wadcutters in something like a 3" model 60 or a 13/65. The tamest wadcutter .38 beats a .22.

I've had many women students that can shoot .38 but CANNOT STAND a .380. The obsession that it has to be a semi-auto seems more of a guy thing.

 

[Treeman]

Add an Amen to Erich's Ahem. I am continually amazed at the neverending stream of advice about "inapropriate powders" causing certain loadings to be ineffective from short barrels. The 22mag outruns the 22LR from every barrel length including 1". In the one nch barrel the difference may be down to 100fps but the magnum is still fastest. In a 4 inch barrel the magnum will beat the LR by 300-400 fps.

"Slower burning" powders continue to post top velocities in snubbies. Rifle or pistol round, whichever loading yields the highest velocities in a "standard length" barrel will have the highest velocities in every barrell length. The differences betweem "fastburning" and slowburning" powder may decrease in short barrels and blast can be truly awe inspiring with big charges of "slow" powders in a short barrel but the "winner" in the speed race doesn't change.

 

[flop-shank]

Well I'm going to jump on the Erich pile. I didn't use a chrono, I used Perma-Gel. The results are in the Perma-Gel thread. .22 mag whips butt compared to lr. ammo, and CCI's Maxi-Mag +V and TNTs (what I carry in my Black Widow) have all the characteristics (and in my limited experience reliability is one of them) of quality centerfire ammo.

That said, try the target wadcutters that OKFC05 recommends. My 4'7" 87 lb. wife runs them in her 3" model 60 and they are very pleasant to shoot.