I have several hundred, once fired brass. Not sure if it they are 223 or 556. Might be 556. If I reload these using my 223 sizing die, is there any concern about the differences between these cartridges? I am not sure the cases are even different. I would shoot these out of a Mini 14 so they will need to be 223.
223/556 question
- Thread starter raljr1
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
Charlie Foxtrott
Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 1,260
- Reaction score
- 2,109
You can do what you propose without issue.
Mini 14s will run either way .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO.
Mini 14s will run either way .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO.
Miracle Man
US Veteran
The 5.56 vs. 223 debate has been going on for years and would fill volumes.
I can only say this: the actual outside dimensions, overall length and such are exactly the same. Where you get into differences is in the thickness of the case walls.
Typically I throw all LC and other military brass, staked and crimped primers in one bucket. And commercial 223, Rem. Win. and so on in another.
If you're loading hot, or near hot loads in say Remington commercial 223 brass. And you load a Lake City or whatever 5.56 case with same hot load you could have an issue with pressure due to the thicker walls/less volume in the military brass.
Short answer it's best to sort brass for high powered rifles and work up loads slowly and carefully.
I can only say this: the actual outside dimensions, overall length and such are exactly the same. Where you get into differences is in the thickness of the case walls.
Typically I throw all LC and other military brass, staked and crimped primers in one bucket. And commercial 223, Rem. Win. and so on in another.
If you're loading hot, or near hot loads in say Remington commercial 223 brass. And you load a Lake City or whatever 5.56 case with same hot load you could have an issue with pressure due to the thicker walls/less volume in the military brass.
Short answer it's best to sort brass for high powered rifles and work up loads slowly and carefully.
OP
I would only be loading mid range 223 data, and only for the Mini 14. Mainly shooting paper, so no need to hot rod.
I've mismatched commercial .223 and Mil 5.56 brass for years in both my Rem rifle and AR. Much of what one hears is old folklore. I don't give it any concern unless I was loading "hot" loads. The problem isn't so much the brass, it's the chambers and heavy (long) bullets. The cartridge should be stamped on the case head, either .223 or 5.56.
Last edited:
DWalt
Member
Short answer. If you are reloading, there is no dimensional difference in the cases. Use whichever is available to you. Most US military brass has crimped primers. After depriming the first time, just use a primer pocket reamer. Some foreign 5.56 military cases do not have crimped primers, nor do civilian cases. I just scrapped over a thousand fired brass cases last week. Cases tend to breed like rabbits, and I accumulated far, far more than I will ever need. And I couldn’t find anyone who wanted them, so out they went. I cut my inventory back to a few hundred.
Last edited:
4barrel
Member
On range pickup I use a Dillon to swage the pockets after cleaning . I don't trim anymore but put different lengths in different containers and throw the long ones back on the range next time. I have grouped 223 and 5.56 at 200 yards with the same bullet and powder combo and no difference. Some use a crimped primer but with the Dillon it's easier to do all and then measure the length.
Last edited:
I reload for an AR rifle with an Odin Works 16.1" barrel chambered in .223 Wylde. The rifle will shoot 5.56 ammo, but seems to be more accurate with .223. I'm to the point of discarding my military brass and loading Hornady once-fired .223 brass exclusively. I like not having to deal with the crimped military primers in 5.56 brass. I trim the brass if needed. I'm getting good results with 55-grain Hornady V-Max bullets.
Attachments
DWalt
Member
The good thing about crimped primers is that it takes only a few seconds to run a hand reamer into the primer pocket, and once done, it is never needed again. I have an RCBS swaging set, but seldom use it. No disadvantages to using a reamer vs. swaging that I can see.
I always keep my brass uniformly trimmed to length, and loads using mixed random cases group about as well as the identical loads using weight-matched cases of the same head stamp. I usually get 10 shot groups between 1/2” to 3/4” at 100 yards (my rifle is a .223 Savage 112V), and I am perfectly happy to stop right there. I might feel differently were I a bench rest shooter. But I am not. I used to be, but long ago.
I always keep my brass uniformly trimmed to length, and loads using mixed random cases group about as well as the identical loads using weight-matched cases of the same head stamp. I usually get 10 shot groups between 1/2” to 3/4” at 100 yards (my rifle is a .223 Savage 112V), and I am perfectly happy to stop right there. I might feel differently were I a bench rest shooter. But I am not. I used to be, but long ago.
Last edited:
Just load your brass and don’t look at the head stamp and you will never know which it is, of course if the primer pockets are crimped you will need to deal with that and do your normal trimming routine. This will probably always come up but it’s getting hard to actually make it a discussion..
Last edited:
To answer the OPs original question, .223 and 5.56x45 mm use the same sizing dies. The major differences between the 2 are in the chamber specs.
Now then, while there's significant differences between .308 and 7.62x51 mm brass whether you're comparing weight or capacity, that doesn't seem true of most all .223/5.56x45 mm brass.
FWIW, Black Hills .308 has mind boggling consistency and had the largest capacity I measured. Winchester and Remington commercial brass also had significant weight/capacity differences from GI spec brass by LC, IMI or Federal Gold Metal Match. Oddly, LC match brass is more uniform than GMM-at least in the lots I've got.
However, when you look at .223 the only brass I've run into that didn't weigh around 95 grains was some WRA 70 brass that weighed around 88+ grains. FWIW, some just purchased Nosler .223 Match Brass weighed exactly 95 grs, +/- 0.5 gr.
Remington developed the 5.56x45 mm cartridge as a military round back in the 1950's. When the DOD shelved the Light Rifle program, Remington introduced it as the .223 Remington. They just kept using the same case forming tools they used for the military contract and most folks just followed right along. WRA appears to have been an exception in 1970.
Now then, while there's significant differences between .308 and 7.62x51 mm brass whether you're comparing weight or capacity, that doesn't seem true of most all .223/5.56x45 mm brass.
FWIW, Black Hills .308 has mind boggling consistency and had the largest capacity I measured. Winchester and Remington commercial brass also had significant weight/capacity differences from GI spec brass by LC, IMI or Federal Gold Metal Match. Oddly, LC match brass is more uniform than GMM-at least in the lots I've got.
However, when you look at .223 the only brass I've run into that didn't weigh around 95 grains was some WRA 70 brass that weighed around 88+ grains. FWIW, some just purchased Nosler .223 Match Brass weighed exactly 95 grs, +/- 0.5 gr.
Remington developed the 5.56x45 mm cartridge as a military round back in the 1950's. When the DOD shelved the Light Rifle program, Remington introduced it as the .223 Remington. They just kept using the same case forming tools they used for the military contract and most folks just followed right along. WRA appears to have been an exception in 1970.
Last edited:
OP
Thanks for all the input. I'll load them to mid range 223 loadings and not sweat it any further.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I'll answer your question with a question.
Have you ever seen dies specifically marked 5.56X45mm? No. What that tells you is there is no difference between the 2 marked brass types.
There is however differences in the loaded ammo namely the pressure and the leade. Do not fire 5.56mm ammo in a .223 chamber but the reverse if fine. Once the ammo is fired you can load the brass from both for your .223 to .223 specs.
Have you ever seen dies specifically marked 5.56X45mm? No. What that tells you is there is no difference between the 2 marked brass types.
There is however differences in the loaded ammo namely the pressure and the leade. Do not fire 5.56mm ammo in a .223 chamber but the reverse if fine. Once the ammo is fired you can load the brass from both for your .223 to .223 specs.
