223 Loads

[Skip Sackett]

I have a friend (I know, surprises you too!)that is going to be a Missionary in Europe. He had an AR-15 that he couldn't take there and evidently didn't have anyone here to leave it with, (I have recently told him I would've put it in the back of my safe and had it when he got back.)or he just needed the money, (most holiness preachers are poor ) so he sold it.

He gave me his brass and I had enough other components to load them up. Put a healthy dent in my BLC-(2) supply though. Got plenty of Wolf small rifle primers though but the 55gr LC FMJBT bullets are almost gone now too. Gonna have to restock real soon.

My load is just over the middle for this powder and weigh bullet. It gives me right at 3000fps from my 20" 1:9" DPMS AR-15 and will shoot MOA groups.

I have had a TON of problems trying to load the 223 on my XL650. It seems my Lee dies need to be lubed, even though they are carbide or I stick cases like crazy. Hornady One Shot is just about worthless on these cases so I use a pad and RCBS II lube. What I had to do was lube 10 cases at a time and load them into the drop tube then load them on the press.

Now, this worked really well and I had NO stuck cases. I couldn't use the case feeder, but that's OK. Made me slow down a bit is all. First throw of powder same weight as the last and the ones I check between were spot on too.

Took all of about an hour to load these and I had to do a setup from 38spl too. I am really happy with the XL650. I need to get a 44Mag and 45Colt caliber kits and I will be good to go!

At any rate, here is a picture of my work. Sorry about the quality, took it with the phone!

 

[swamprat]

You must always lube rifle cases, even with carbide dies. I use anhydrous lanolin, a little goes a very long way. I have found that the Hornady One Shot works great for lubing the insides of the case neck.

 

[jepp2]

It seems my Lee dies need to be lubed, even though they are carbide

Are you referring to your sizing die? I was only aware that Dillon made a carbide 223 sizing die, and you have to use lube with it.

Your loads look good!

Only because you didn't mention it, but you are going to remove the RCBS sizing lube, right?

 

[safarihunter]

I have used the spray bottle lube from Midway with success on my 650.

You may want to give your resizing die a good cleaning especially the case neck expander.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I prefer Imperial sizing Wax for all my brass. It's very slick, you use tiny amounts and it wipes off easily with a terry cloth rag while cleaning out the primer pocket. (can you tell I really like the stuff??)

 

[ken158]

I dont think Lee makes carbide rifle dies

 

[David Sinko]

At what point do you measure the cases and trim them? My DPMS rifle will lock up solid if the cases are just a few thousandths over maximum OAL. Once fired brass usually needs to be trimmed, unless it's certain variations of FC which tend to be very short. I resize all my brass first on a single stage Lee press using the Lee die. The die is not carbide but the One Shot works well for me. I then check the length and trim as necessary. When all the brass is processed I then load on my RL550B with the sizing die removed from the press. I also use BLC-2 and my only complaint is that it constantly dribbles out of the charge bar and makes a mess. Other than that I can't complain. Volume loading of the .223 is a nightmare because of the time spent processing the brass. Lately I bypass a lot of this extra work by loading steel cases which don't need to be trimmed or have the primer pockets reamed. The Lee die seems to take it all in stride. Due to the aggravation factor and the auto indexing I have no desire to load .223 or any other rifle cartridge on my XL650.

Dave Sinko

Dave Sinko

 

[Skip Sackett]

Grouped answers:

You must always lube rifle cases, even with carbide dies. I use anhydrous lanolin, a little goes a very long way. I have found that the Hornady One Shot works great for lubing the insides of the case neck.

No, only if you full length size. I have lanolin, got it from MSC and it is industrial grade. I cannot get my Lee die to run with One Shot, period. After cleaning, brand new......never.

Jeep,
I will have to double check but I was almost SURE that these dies were carbide. No, I am not planing on removing the lube as it will be a coon's age before I shoot them. This will help keep the brass from tarnishing.

Safari,
This dies is clean and without burrs or scrape marks. No obstructions or abrasions at all. If it were to get some, I would take a Scotch Brite pad to it. I think it is possible of two things. #1, the 223 brass I have has all been shot out of 5.56 chambers. I'm wondering if that has an effect. It could be too that my die is at the bottom of all of the tolerances. Will have to check that too.

ArchAngel,
I like Imperial too and there is no doubt that it works. I like it too but it is a bit difficult to get on the cases for use in the XL650.

Dave,
If I cannot use the XL650 to load 223 ammo, um, what good is it? I used to do exactly what you mention but am trying different things with this batch of brass. It is all PMC and the primer pockets are not crimped and that is a good thing. At this time, I think that this situation works pretty well. I just noticed some peculiarities while doing it.


Thanks for all of your replies. Will have to check on the Lee Die issues, thanks for raising them!

 

[swamprat]

No, only if you full length size. I have lanolin, got it from MSC and it is industrial grade. I cannot get my Lee die to run with One Shot, period. After cleaning, brand new......never.

I assumed you were fL sizing when you mentioned AR15 and stuck cases, hence the always lube the cases. I use 223 Lee dies on my 550 and it won't run on One Shot either, but I put a little spray on the inside of the case mouths to ease expander plug in and out. I find it makes the loading process smoother.

I doubt it is the 5.56 chamber as most all of the brass I load is fired in military chambers. But, YMMV.

David, you are correct, processing the brass is a pain. I bit the bullet and bought the Dillon electric case trimmer and the swaging tool for the primer pockets. I usually do a 5 gallon bucket at a time. It is still a bit time consuming but that is what rainy days are for.
As far as trim rates that kind of depends on your rifles' tolerances, I usually re-trim after a 3rd loading.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I have the Dillon pocket swagger too. I am thankful I didn't have to use it on this batch of cases. The PMC didn't have crimped pockets.

The RCBS II lube has worked about the best for me. I need to try the Lanolin in spray form. I have some 99% pure industrial grade alcohol that I can mix it with. The will aid in evaporation. I haven't had to trim cases yet. These seem to be in tolerance. Maybe next time!

 

[Paul5388]

Skip,

I never have seen an advantage of a progressive over a turret press for two die sets, unless you also have a powder through die. I usually use small base dies for .223, just to ensure the brass will fit any chamber.

RCBS II is hard to beat and it does work sometimes where Imperial doesn't.

I bought 8 pounds of AA 2230 and will try to get it to shoot right. So far, a Mini 14 doesn't like it or anything else.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Just wondering if you have tried Varget. If you want some really accurate loads, at least from a single shot and my AR-15, Varget is THE powder. Heavier bullets and all.

The good thing about using the progressive for rifle loads is that not ever rifle load needs to be MOA accurate. Sometimes there just need to be a lot of them available!

Running loads through the AR or any semi-auto rifle means having a big supply. I like to do them in the shortest time possible, hence the progressive!

 

[mark454]

I like 24 -25 grains of H335 under a Winchester 55 FMJBT bullet in my 1 in 9 inch twist barrel. I use Winchester small Rifle primers. It loads cheap (this is a reference to the bullet and I mean that in a relative sense) and easy on my Dillon 550. I use Lee dies (Pacesetter I believe) so I seat and crimp in 2 different stages. As for lube, RCBS Lube and Pad seems to work for me. I only have to lube every other case to keep it from stickinging in the die. I also use LC brass with crimped pockets. I went cheap by using the RCBS primer pocket swager. I have not been shooting the AR for long so the 2 buckets of brass that I started with have only been reloaded once. I am sure that I will have to trim the brass before the next load. Thankfully, that will be awhile!

Dave: As a side note, I had a problem with my Dillon powder dispensor "dripping" H110. I sent it back to Dillon and they replaced it. Maybe your drips BL-C(2) because it is worn out. Give them a call. They replaced it for free.
Mark

 

[Bullseye Smith]

I would send my brass out and have it cleaned, deprime and sized, at that time it was $80 dollars for 2000 case. Was easier than the head ack you are having. To much lube and you dent the neck, just a pain.

 

[Paul5388]

I do use a 60 gr V-Max with Varget out of a Handi rifle that shoots as good as it will probably shoot.

On another note, here's 27.5 gr of BLC-2 with a 60 gr V-Max at 100 yards out of a Handi rifle.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Good shooting. I just hope you aren't expecting that kind of accuracy from the Ruger!

My AR-15 will shoot that good with 69gr BTHP and a full charge of Varget but I have a 1:9" twist in mine too and a pretty decent 3X9 scope!

 

[Paul5388]

Since my Handi has a 1 in 12" twist, the 60 gr V-Max is as heavy as I can go. They advertise it as being suited for up thru 1 in 12" barrels.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

At what point do you measure the cases and trim them?

The die is not carbide but the One Shot works well for me.

Dave Sinko

You should always trim or check your brass length AFTER you do a full length resize.

As for using One Shot for resizing .223 brass, sure, it will work on .223 brass but I have tried it with 30-06 brass and stuck a case within the first 5 cases. I'm guessing the .223 brass has such a small contact area you can get away with using One Shot but with a larger case it's a no-go for me.