2nd Model Ladysmith

[Freestater]

Hey guys,
New to the forum and was looking to get some knowledge about my Ladysmith. I inherited it from my father and he got it from a a family friend back in the mid 60's. I'm wanting to know overall value, as I'm going to be selling it. Don't have much interest in it. It seems to be in pretty good shape. Has not been shot since the 60's, I'm sure.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[Freestater]

This was the last time it was appraised. Been in a box ever since.

 

[raljr1]

Probably close to twice that today. Be a little higher if the left side looked as good as the right.

 

[gmborkovic]

Mr. Feestater, welcome to you and your 22. Nice little Lady and blue to boot. May I urge you to research sold guns on the internet to get more of a feel for going prices. All of us here on the Forum will help you. You all ready have a good start point from post #3. If the grips match the Sn. of the gun you have a big plus.

 

[Freestater]

Mr. Feestater, welcome to you and your 22. Nice little Lady and blue to boot. May I urge you to research sold guns on the internet to get more of a feel for going prices. All of us here on the Forum will help you. You all ready have a good start point from post #3. If the grips match the Sn. of the gun you have a big plus.

Thanks for the reply. I've been looking and they seem to be around 1400-1900. The grips are original.

 

[gmborkovic]

Perfect, you got the grips off with no problems. You have a very good hold on the range they sell for. Now, decide on a price and post it here for sale.

 

[mrcvs]

I’m not seeing a 90 to 95% revolver, as described on the card with the date 12/17/92 and I’m also not seeing this revolver being worth anywhere near $1400 to $1600 because of this. Better photographs could change what I am seeing. The screwheads look good, nice and crisp and unmolested, however.

 

[BMur]

Forcing cone

Nice Lady Smith.
I remember the days when these sold for $350-$500 a long time ago but I stayed away from them because they have a significant problem with the early production forcing cone.
See photos.
Very often the forcing cones are blown out, bulged like the OP’s, cracked, or like in photo two topstrap cut to clear a replacement installed by a gunsmith. Which can be done but often done poorly.

Finding one that’s not damaged is a challenge. Collectors of these early hand ejectors are a lot like collectors of Remington double derringers having cracked hinges. They lose a ton of value.

Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

The cracked, bulged or blown out forcing cones are very real and often encountered. This is usually attributed to the use of Long Rifle loads in a revolver designed to shoot the .22 Long cartridge. The "... or like in photo two topstrap cut to clear a replacement installed by a gunsmith." has me baffled as the photos show a matching serial number on the barrel. What am I missing?

 

[BMur]

Forcing cone repair

Mike,
Complicated answer but here goes.

The lady smiths are a low production gun and very collectible. Because of the forcing cone damage being common to this model the owner has very few options to repair. That’s honestly why few are found without damage to the cone. Not an easy fix.

Normally you would simply replace the barrel but in this case loose Lady Smith barrels are RARE.
First let me say that the condition of the gun governs the type of repair made.
If you just want the gun put back as close to original then you’d punch the frame pin, unscrew the barrel, machine flat the damage and carefully weld on an extension. This repair would not solve the weak forcing cone issue so technically it would still not be shootable but it would most definitely increase its value.

Another option is to pop the frame pin, unscrew the barrel, machine flat the damage, then measure a high tempered beefed up extension. Thread that extension and install it from inside the frame. This would require slight machining of the topstrap to clear the beefed up high tempered high psi forcing cone installation. This method is designed to handle modern smokeless rounds without further damage to the forcing cone.

I’ve done this kind of repair on a few rare guns to restore value but it’s been years and I don’t have the patience or the eyesight for it anymore. It’s only worth the effort if the guns condition and rarity make it beneficial and worth the cost to the owner.

The guns I repaired years ago were rare long and short barreled antique Colts. They were worth a lot but the blown forcing cone crippled their value considerably.

So basically it’s like anything else. When you’ve done the work before you recognize it when you see it done by someone else.

Murph

 

[raljr1]

Mike,
Complicated answer but here goes.

The lady smiths are a low production gun and very collectible. Because of the forcing cone damage being common to this model the owner has very few options to repair.


Murph

The forcing cone on this one does not look that bad to me. Educate me, please.

 

[BMur]

Close up

Here is a close up from the OP’s photo.
Yellow arrow points to a chip out of the surface of the cone. Also, the cone is visibly bulged out like a balloon from high psi smokeless loads.
This barrels cone is so bulged in fact (opened up like a flower?) that it would not unscrew from the frame in its present condition without hitting the threads on the way out and stopping.

The cone would have to be machine cut off in order to unscrew the threaded barrel.

I’ve seen this many, many times from too hot a load used.

Murph

 

[mrcvs]

Here is a close up from the OP’s photo.
Yellow arrow points to a chip out of the surface of the cone. Also, the cone is visibly bulged out like a balloon from high psi smokeless loads.
This barrels cone is so bulged in fact (opened up like a flower?) that it would not unscrew from the frame in its present condition without hitting the threads on the way out and stopping.

The cone would have to be machine cut off in order to unscrew the threaded barrel.

I’ve seen this many, many times from too hot a load used.

Murph

I did not see that in the photographs. Good eye!

I also don’t see a 90 to 95% revolver. I see an, at best, 60% revolver.

I also see something I have never seen on a Smith & Wesson revolver before. In fact, I’ve thought about this when handling my own Hand Ejectors and I’m simply amazed one doesn’t see this far more often. Note the linear scratch on the left side of the revolver and the linear scratch adjoining the scratch perpendicularly? That’s from the ejector star as the cylinder is closed with the ejector star pushed rearwards and then being released as extended while still in contact with the side of the revolver.

Now what’s the value, with condition being what it is and the forcing cone issue? Personally, I wouldn’t touch it unless it was at a price the OP might not want to hear.

And also, how much would it cost to repair a damaged forcing cone and still not have a revolver as desirable as one that was never damaged to begin with?

 

[steelslaver]

I didn't notice the barrel shank/forcing cone problems until BMur pointed them out and I downloaded the image and expanded it to 500%, then small cracks and bulge show up pretty well.

To bad as they are neat little guns.

I think you could cut off forcing cone, turn out barrel, Turn a piece of 22 barrel and thread it to fit frame, then step it down as far as possible from frame forward, cut the shank from original barrel, then drill and ream it to just slip over new barrel and silver solder it on.

That is how I have made K32 barrels

here is my little lady

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Since this thread discusses issues with the Lady Smith, I'd like to ask the experts where I might get a frame lug for my 1st Model? Or, could someone post or PM me the dimensions so I can have one fabricated?

Fortunately, my barrel shank appears to be in good shape.

 

[Freestater]

Here is a close up from the OP’s photo.
Yellow arrow points to a chip out of the surface of the cone. Also, the cone is visibly bulged out like a balloon from high psi smokeless loads.
This barrels cone is so bulged in fact (opened up like a flower?) that it would not unscrew from the frame in its present condition without hitting the threads on the way out and stopping.

The cone would have to be machine cut off in order to unscrew the threaded barrel.

I’ve seen this many, many times from too hot a load used.

Murph

Not sure how you can see cracks and chipped surface by blowing up an image to 500%. Looks like a gas station security camera took the pic. Here are some better ones for you. I can't see any cracks or chips when holding the gun.

 

[Freestater]

I did not see that in the photographs. Good eye!

I also don’t see a 90 to 95% revolver. I see an, at best, 60% revolver.

I also see something I have never seen on a Smith & Wesson revolver before. In fact, I’ve thought about this when handling my own Hand Ejectors and I’m simply amazed one doesn’t see this far more often. Note the linear scratch on the left side of the revolver and the linear scratch adjoining the scratch perpendicularly? That’s from the ejector star as the cylinder is closed with the ejector star pushed rearwards and then being released as extended while still in contact with the side of the revolver.

Now what’s the value, with condition being what it is and the forcing cone issue? Personally, I wouldn’t touch it unless it was at a price the OP might not want to hear.

And also, how much would it cost to repair a damaged forcing cone and still not have a revolver as desirable as one that was never damaged to begin with?

Its definitely not a 90% gun now. Its been exposed to humidity for 30 years. Totally agree about the 60% ish. That's why I asked for opinions. I think its a $500-$600 gun. About what it appraised for 30 years ago. Had it been pulled out and cleaned once in a while it may fetch more.

 

[crstrode]

WOW!
A few of youse guys are really sharp.

Great job at keeping me humble.

 

[mrcvs]

Its definitely not a 90% gun now. Its been exposed to humidity for 30 years. Totally agree about the 60% ish. That's why I asked for opinions. I think its a $500-$600 gun. About what it appraised for 30 years ago. Had it been pulled out and cleaned once in a while it may fetch more.

$500 seems about right. If the forcing cone is not cracked. If it truly is, then likely closer to $200 or $250.

 

[Freestater]

$500 seems about right. If the forcing cone is not cracked. If it truly is, then likely closer to $200 or $250.

There are no cracks at all in the forcing cone.