2nd Model of 1891 Single Shot .22

[Geezer7]

Colleagues

I just bought a magnificent (albeit composite) 2nd Model of 1891 Single Shot .22--but it's missing the blade from the rear windage adjustable sight assembly (see pic).

I've fallen in love with the 16 ounce trigger pull, but can't aim worth beans without the rear sight, and I cannot locate a replacement blade anywhere.

Any suggestions?

Sincerely grateful,
Bruce

 

[Vidd]

ralph will know rct269

 

[deadin]

I believe Ralph has all of the measurments for the blade you need.

 

[glowe]

It seems that the rear sight market has dried up and I have not seen any for sale for a long time, but they can quite easily be made from existing examples or a drawing with dimensions. Don Mundell came across bags of them years ago, but do not know if he still has them or not?

On another note, could you tell me when your gun shipped and add a picture of the stocks? According to Roy Jinks book, the 2nd Model had only hard rubber stocks, but think I have seen others with medallion stocks like yours.

 

[Geezer7]

Roy says SN 1642 shipped 4/1908--but that would be just the nickel frame. I don't know the ship date for the blue barrel SN 2412. And just to confirm the unfortunate "composite reality" of my gun, the wood stocks have a very faint penciled "?173".

 

[deadin]

FWIW--My 2nd Model #3587 letters as shipped 2/15/1910.

 

[opoefc]

I have made workable rear sight blades from single edge razor blades, using a Dremel tool grinder. They do the job until you can find a factory blade. Ed

 

[rct269]

And BEHOLD----Ralph has arrived!

Tell him your Snail Mail address, and a machinist drawing of the blade and the retaining plate, along with the screw specs will arrive in your mailbox.

As an aside, the drawing is for the small frame sight. The large frame sight is the same---only wider---and presumably of different heights.

Ralph Tremaine

As another aside, you said "windage adjustable". It is also elevation adjustable----see the screw underneath the carrier.

And as yet one more aside (having just now bothered to look at the pictures) your pistol is indeed a composite!! The sight is from a 3rd Model (S&W's first screw adjustable for windage). The bad news is I don't have the specs for that blade---only for 1st/2nd. The good news is it's a flat blade------no milling machines required! It's child's play to make with a file. Some other kind soul will fix you up with the specs/drawing----AND the flat blade is as common as dirt, having been used in 5 subsequent sights----------the only proviso being you need the specs for the blade for a small frame gun---K frame might be the same, but that's a SWAG. And being as common as dirt, you may very well be able to find one with an ad here-----or whatever/wherever.

 

[rct269]

Roy says SN 1642 shipped 4/1908--but that would be just the nickel frame. I don't know the ship date for the blue barrel SN 2412. And just to confirm the unfortunate "composite reality" of my gun, the wood stocks have a very faint penciled "?173".

These stocks may very well belong to the same 3rd Model your sight came from. (The cop-out clause arises from the fact I don't know if the 3rd grip frame is the same as the 1st's/2nd's---never occurred to me to check.)

My favorite segment of my collection of S&W target guns was the single shots. I somehow managed to come up with an example of every single one of them (them being the .22's---I only had one centerfire, an 8" .32---which lettered as a 10" .22)----all models/all barrel lengths/all variations/14 in all---not counting the supposed middle ground between early and late Straight Lines---which almost certainly had to exist----somewhere along the line---sometime or another---and also not counting the so-called "transitionals" between the 1st's and 2nd's---which never really interested me.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Geezer7]

Ralph

WOW! Thanks SO much for the good news.

Does anyone have the specs for a 3rd model sight blade??? or better yet, the blade itself?

My address:

Bruce Arnold
4387 Quail Lndg
Powell, OH 43065

[email protected]

Thanks in advance,
Bruce

 

[Geezer7]

Hold the presses! I forgot I have a Heavy Frame Target .22 and M&P 1905 Target with the same rear sight blade set-ups!

I tried swapping those flat blades--success!

So what I need is pictured below.

Anyone have/want to sell one?

 

[rct269]

Lacking one to buy, they're child's play to make! OnlineMetals.com has the stock (.040") as I recall--------and at least didn't have a minimum order---back when. Annealed 4130 steel is what you're after----easy to work with. A piece about the size of a stick of gum works fine---because you need something to hold onto. Stick it in your vise, and start whittling.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rct269]

I don't know what sort of front sight you have, but your rear should be compatible. The U notch is .045" as I recall, and it's a semi-circle---not a U.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[glowe]

A couple comments. The rear sight blade shown is from 1913 or later with the wedge base. Earlier blades, according to Bob Neal's research were square base and likely the reason why many that have gone missing. Noting the drawings below, the U notch shows as narrower than the earlier ones, but not sure which frame size Bob was using as the examples.

I have one of the post-1913 HFTs with the wedge base and the slot measures .050" U shape. It is suggested by Bob that rear sight blades were all square base before that year.

If one looks closely to the images in Bob's work, you will notice that the screws of the square cut base are flat-end and the screws of the wedge shaped sight base use beveled-end screws like the one in my picture. To know which sight blade is correct, just check the screw end shape.

 

[Geezer7]

My 3rd model rear sight assembly does indeed have beveled-end screws.

I was surprised the smallest 4130 annealed steel flat .040" sheet offered by OnlineMetals is a 12" square that costs $28.89 plus $9.21 shipping!!

I may wait few days to see if anyone has an extra blade for sale.

My front sight reads “Marbles//35A”. The anchor hole is torn open at the bottom and it was loosely pinned with a piece of copper wire. I did get it securely mounted with a proper blued steel pin.

 

[rct269]

That Marbles sight would call for a "U" notch at the rear.

And speaking of waiting a few days to see about an extra blade, the "want ad" you've posted in this section is all well and good, but an ad posted in our classified section of the forum will be A LOT better as the classifieds have a VASTLY larger audience. (!!)

As an aside, don't be surprised if an original blade will go for about double the cost of the piece of sheet metal you mentioned.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Geezer7]

"U"-notch, flat, wedge-bottom rear sight blade

Ralph--before I post my very 1st "WTB" ad, please advise if the info below is correct. And may I please use your pic?

Colleagues

I have a Single Shot 3rd Model of 1891 rear sight assembly--missing the blade.

This blade was also found on other early target-model revolvers like the M&P 1905 Target and Heavy Frame Target models.

The blade should look like the pic attached--"U" notch, flat, wedge-bottom. White outline gladly accepted!

Specs:
Thickness--.040"
Width--.506"-.617"
Height--.222"
U-Notch--.090"

If you have a semi-circle or square notch that meets the other specs, please advise.

Thanks in advance
Bruce
Attached Thumbnails
Rear sight blade 1891.jpg

 

[rct269]

There's an old saying about "The KISS formula"------"Keep it Simple Stupid".

How 'bout something along these lines;

WTB----flat sight blade with U notch for small frame gun---3rd Model Single Shot. (Tell them the width of the carrier (Fits in a carrier of ?? width.)-------the blade for a large frame gun is .620" wide, and fits in a carrier of approximately that width---perhaps a bit wider---your carrier is smaller.)

And show them a picture----never mind your picture shows a square notch.

Now----my knee-jerk reaction is you're going to be hard pressed to come up with a U notch blade, because only the earliest 3rd Models have that----the later models (the VAST majority) use a Patridge front---with a square notch rear. That said, you could care less what sort of gun the blade may have come from, and the very great odds are your audience doesn't know what sort of gun their blade came from in the first place----other than small or large. The good news is there may be U notch blades from other types of small frame guns that I don't know the first thing about.

You could also care less about the height of a blade. If it's too tall, you can file it down. If it's too short, you can elevate your carrier. I'm pretty sure ALL the flat blades are .040" thick---------or whatever yours measures.



The End-----at least for now. If you want me to see a revised ad sample, go for it.

And yes, you can use my picture----never mind I don't have the first clue what picture you're talking about.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Geezer7]

Ralph

Revised proof for your scrutiny...

WTB--Flat sight blade w/"U"-notch for small frame gun

Colleagues

For a Single Shot 3rd Model of 1891.

Carrier width--.620"

Thickness--.040"

If you have a semi-circle or square notch that meets the other specs, please advise.

Thanks in advance
Bruce