32/20 and gas cutting

[Qmark]

I'm not a serious hard core S&W collector. I do how ever collect S&W shooters. Today at my gun club's meeting a member was selling what was tagged "hand ejector model" and it is chambered in 32/20. It was kind of love at first sight for me, I wanted to buy it but currently I'm being drained financially by a dentist. Told him I'd let him know at the meeting next month if I could afford the no guilt money. With over 6 G's spent at the dentist this year with more to come. My discretionary dollars and spending is limited. I have no interest in buying something I can't safely shoot.

One thing I noticed was the deep gas cutting, not the typical pitting but it almost looked like a chunk was removed. Is the heavy gas cutting common for revolvers chambered in 32/20? Were 32/20's doomed because of the heavy gas cutting same as the 357 Maxium? Or could it simply be that due to its age it has been shot hundreds of times?

Being a collector of shooters and not having one chambered in 32/20. If I do buy it first order of business will be searching for ammo as I will be anxious to get it to the range.

 

[Skeetr57]

You are probably confusing the fouling cup that was machined into the bottom of the top strap over the cylinder for gas cutting. Earlier S&W revolvers had this feature to prevent jamming from a build up of black powder residue. I don't know when it was eliminated.

 

[DWalt]

Correct. Many older revolvers had a small scooped-out area machined into the topstrap above the barrel-cylinder gap. I always wondered if it actually did any good at trapping black powder residue, as the idea didn't seem to make much sense to me. There shouldn't be any flame-cutting evident in a .32-20 revolver.

 

[Qmark]

THANKS!! Gentleman, learn something new every day. I was unaware of a fouling cup ever having existed. Hopefully I'll be showing it off here in about a month.

 

[Alk8944]

Here are pictures of the "Fouling Cup" on 2 S&W Winchester Models. The first is a 1905 3rd Change from 1909. Note the fouling cup falls slightly behind the barrel-cylinder gap. Look closely and you will see slight indications of gas cutting.

The second is a 1902 1st change made in 1905. Again look closely and you will see obvious gas cutting just in front of the fouling cup! (Note: Photos are reversed from this description!)

Don't believe anyone who says a .32-20 will not gas cut! This is a cartridge that continued with Black Powder clear into the 1920s. Black Powder is extremely erosive, just like a plasma cutting torch, far more than smokeless powders. Gas cutting of .32-20 revolvers is quite frequently seen on the earlier guns, not so much those made ofter WWI.

The fouling cup disappeared somewhere around 1922-25.

Colt also used the fouling cup on their earlier revolvers. I have Police Positive, Police Positive Special, Army Special, New Army and even a ca. 1928 Officers Model .38 revolvers which have virtually identical appearing fouling cups. The Colt fouling cups are farther forward so the barrel-cylinder gap falls over the fouling cup, instead of just ahead of it as in the S&Ws.

 

[DWalt]

I have a ca. 1934 .32-20 Colt Official Police and a ca. 1912 .32-20 Colt Army Special. Both have the scoop in the topstrap directly over the cylinder-barrel gap, and neither shows any indication whatsoever of flame cutting. But then, both are in about 95% condition, and probably weren't fired much either.

 

[awp101]

Alk, would that flame cutting be serious enough to take it out of the shooter category? Or would it be OK if one used normal (not hot) smokeless loads?

 

[DWalt]

I have never heard of Black Powder loads causing excessive cutting, and have never seen any black powder revolvers showing much evidence of that. But that's only anecdotal. I suppose it's possible, but if so, it would be as a result of blasting particulate matter at the topstrap. Most of the products of combustion of BP is solid (that's what all of the smoke is), while smokeless powder combustion produces very little solid matter. And it's logical that solid particulates might be more erosive than just hot gas.

One example of very serious flame cutting involved the .357 Maximum Ruger Blackhawk revolvers of the early 1980s, as they operated at very high pressures with lighter bullets. They were never able to solve that problem. I have always wondered why neither Remington nor Ruger discovered this serious problem during pre-release product testing. I'm unaware of any other revolver cutting problems of a serious neture in any other caliber, as it's generally self-limiting in its effects.