32-20 with Modern Ammo

[Retired W4]

I have two 32-20 HE's, SN 112xxx and 119xxx. These were made after S&W stated heat treating the cylinders. My question has to do with the caution in SCSW about using modern ammo with RIFLE on the box. I have some newer Remington ammo that says rifle and a very limited quantity of older Remington Kleanbore. Both guns have the mushroom ejector rod knob and are in excellent mechanical condition. 32-20 ammo is hard enough to find and what I have seen is for rifles.

 

[murphydog]

The newer Remington ammo with lead bullets is safe for use in a .32-20 HE in sound condition. My guess is that in this day and age it is more likely to be used in rifles like an older Marlin. If in doubt, I’d contact Remington.

The rifle-only older ammo I have seen used JHP bullets at much higher velocity.

 

[22hipower]

I don't remember how long, but a very long time since anyone loaded the jacketed "rifle only" 32-20 ammo. Probably would be very hard to find any outside of an antique ammo collection. I have several S&W 32-20s, earlier and later than yours. I think I've shot them all with whatever 32-20 I could find, none of the old "rifle only" as I've never seen any. Mostly with my cast bullet reloads. Anyway, no issues with any of them. Lots of fun though.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Hondo44]

Well I don't see a question but the older Kleanbore marked Rifle I would not shoot in your guns. Older ammo was loaded hotter than modern ammo, especially that made for rifles..

I would go on-line and look at the Remington ammunition catalog for the specs on the newer 32-20 ammo.
Compare the information for the rifle ammo with that for their other 32-20 ammo. Newer ammo for the old traditional cartridges is loaded down for all the old guns that are still around due to today's increased liability concerns of the manufacturers. If the ammo marked rifle is clearly loaded higher based on the velocity listed, don't shoot the new ammo in your guns either.

Note: handloading for those shooting traditional cartridges really pays off, especially during the ammo shortages these days.

 

[glowe]

I have shot a few boxes of Remington 32-20 Rifle loads to get brass for reloading and they are loaded light. Obviously, the company knew that there were lots of Colt and S&Ws out there in that caliber, but cannot figure out why they felt they needed to use the "Rifle" on the box?? They chronographed around 800 fps. I would not make a habit of using the ammunition, because I load to under 750 in these old guns, but they handled the factory stuff without issue.

Original vintage rifle loads were jacketed bullets and heavier bullets than pistol ammo. I believe the jacketed bullets were 115 grain and ran around 1400+ fps in rifles. Revolver ammo used a 100 grain lead bullet but still ran over 900 fps.

 

[Model19man]

My 32-20 hand Ejector is a First Model, S/N 3265. It has no issue with currently available Remington ammo or my handloads. Post a picture of your ammo - I bet it's fine too.

 

[rockquarry]

It's been several years, but I've chronographed modern Winchester and Remington .32-20 ammo. It's in the 1100 fps range in a rifle, very mild and safe in in any handgun or rifle regardless of age as long as the gun is in sound condition. This is all 100 grain ammo and probably wouldn't chronograph more than about 800 - 850 fps from a revolver.

 

[Retired W4]

Here is a sample of the two that I have, both of which are 100 gr. LRN. Thanks for all the great insight and suggestions. The old stuff says "For use in standard rifles and revolvers...".

 

[Model19man]

RE the new box, I would call Remington and ask.

 

[Jim Watson]

SAAMI only shows one load for .32-20, 100 gr lead at 1200 fps (rifle) at 16000 CUP.
It has been a long time since any of the various High Speed, High Velocity, Super Speed, 1892 ammo was made.
I recall it dropped out of Gun Digest's ammo listings around 1960.

 

[Muley Gil]

The .32-20 (.32 WCF, .32 Winchester) cartridge was introduced as a rifle round & was later chambered in Colt's Single Action Army revolver. All of the currently produced ammo is safe in all revolvers.

The RIFLE ONLY round has an 80 grain hollow point bullet and the headstamp has HV on it (for High Velocity).

Picture courtesy of alk8944.

 

[Jim Watson]

Not just and only 80 gr.

In 1939 Remington had 100 gr bullets at 1330 fps and an 80 gr "Mushroom" at 2000 fps.

Peters had similar plus 100 gr High Velocity at 1640 fps.

Winchester loaded a 115 at 1225 and Super Speed 80 at 2000.
Then a 92 Special WHV 115 gr at 1635 fps.

Western cataloged 115s at 1250-1290 fps and a Super X 80 gr at 2050 fps.

There were multiple bullet types in each spec, lead, soft point, and full jacket. The fast 80 gr bullets were mostly hollow points, maybe a full jacket.

All listed only under rifle ammo, although Colt and Smith had .32-20 revolvers in the same catalog.

 

[glowe]

Here is the jacketed Winchester 115g ammo box.

 

[Muley Gil]

Here is the jacketed Winchester 115g ammo box.

I have fired that ammo in a pre WW I S&W revolver with no ill effects. It was loud though.

 

[Alk8944]

Not just and only 80 gr.

In 1939 Remington had 100 gr bullets at 1330 fps and an 80 gr "Mushroom" at 2000 fps.

Peters had similar plus 100 gr High Velocity at 1640 fps.

Winchester loaded a 115 at 1225 and Super Speed 80 at 2000.
Then a 92 Special WHV 115 gr at 1635 fps.

Western cataloged 115s at 1250-1290 fps and a Super X 80 gr at 2050 fps.

There were multiple bullet types in each spec, lead, soft point, and full jacket. The fast 80 gr bullets were mostly hollow points, maybe a full jacket.

All listed only under rifle ammo, although Colt and Smith had .32-20 revolvers in the same catalog.

First, .32-20 is and always has been a rifle cartridge in all loadings! There have never been any commercial loads marketed specifically for revolvers! This rifle cartridge was adopted by both Colt and S&W, and all commercial ammunition except the 80 grain high velocity hollow-point is appropriate for revolvers. Any load with a bullet of 100 to 120 grains is appropriate for revolvers, regardless of when loaded! This includes lead and jacketed bullets.

The 80 grain High Velocity loading was the only load that was marketed with a warning against use in revolvers!!!!!

You mentioned .32 Special. This is a rifle cartridge chambered in the Model 1894 Winchester, a totally different animal.
The velocities you list or various .32-20 loads are what would be seen when fired in a rifle, not a revolver. You will not find a warning against use in revolvers on the boxes of any .32-20 ammunition, made at any time, except the 80 grain high velocity hollow point load!

All your post succeeds in doing is muddying the water for people who seriously want to have an authoritative answer!!!!!!!!!

 

[glowe]

I have fired that ammo in a pre WW I S&W revolver with no ill effects. It was loud though.

I know what you mean, years ago when I obtained my first 32 Winchester S&W, I searched for loads and found very few. I had an old spiral bound Lyman Reloading Guide that had both rifle and handgun loads for that caliber. Found a handgun load for 95g LRN and ran samples from min to max.

Out at the range I set up my chronograph to test the mid-range load and upon firing, I got the loudest crack from the ammo. I checked the chrono and it registered a hair under 1200 fps! I had broke the sound barrier and quickly unloaded the other cartridges and went to the min load. It registered over 900 fps so I proceeded to pull the bullets for all the ammo I had loaded. Eventually found a plinking load and now can keep my loads to under 750 fps, plenty of speed for paper. The 1908 - 6 1/2" S&W handled the super-sonic loads without issue, but I am sure I tempted fate. Lyman must have liked hot ammo back then, without any concerns about liability!

 

[DWalt]

The HV .32-20 loading was discontinued over 50 years ago. Note that the Remington box label does NOT say “Rifle Only”. The old HV loads used an 80 grain jacketed hollow point bullet which is instantly recognizable. About the only place you can find them today is on the ammunition collectors market. I have several specimen HV rounds in my collection, but not a full box.

Some may not be aware that back in the old days, there were rifle-only HV loads in .38-40 and .44-40. They also used lighter weight bullets. “Rifle only” did not include Winchester 1873s as they had a fairly weak action.

 

[Hawg Rider]

If you want to play it safe and have fun at the same time, get yourself some .32-20 Cowboy Action loads. It may take some searching to find it, but ammo manufactured by HSM, Black Hills, etc. are great. Round Nose Flat Point in 100 or 115g. Midway and Brownell's usually stock it, but I think COVID is still affecting the manufacture of the more unusual ammunition and many suppliers are Out of Stock right now. My 1905 4th Change .32-20 HE (118705, ca. 1923) is a hoot to shoot. Good luck!

 

[BSA1]

Before Al Gore invented the Internet and the Internet ‘xperts came along and said otherwise the 32-20 was considered to be a deer cartridge. Now days the .223/5.56 is considered adequate as a deer cartridge by the same ‘xperts.

The 32-20 is my favorite cartridge. I shot a lot of it in CAS using a Uberti carbine and EMF SA revolver. The cylinder of the EMF is beefy and I would not have any concerns about shoot the 80 gr. HV cartridge.

But why?

Somewhere in my many old reloading manuals I recall reading that the 100 gr. LRN is consider to be factory standard. Since I can never find commercial 100 gr. LRN I use 115 gr. LRN. (Actually they have a small flat nose). In addition to the thousands of 32-20 I have shot in CAS I also use it on the farm for varmints and small game. It is very accurate and results in one shot kills which is especially nice when dealing with skunks.

Personally I would not shot jacketed bullets especially in those old Smiths. I never found lead bullets to be lacking and use will avoid bore wear. I would put the jacketed ammo in a can with a label “For emergency use only when the world is ending”.

I can ramble on and on about the 32-20. I could survive easily with my 32-20’s as long as I can reload my ammo.

p.s. I forgot to ask Santa to bring me a 32-20 HE. Dang.

 

[Jim Watson]

F

All your post succeeds in doing is muddying the water for people who seriously want to have an authoritative answer!!!!!!!!!

I didn't mean to muddy the water, I SAID it was from a 1939 catalog, none of that stuff has been made in decades, but writers have been warning against its use in revolvers long after it was gone, so I will have at it, too.

The then standard loads gave 1250-1330 fps for a 100-115 gr bullet from a rifle, present standard is a 100 gr bullet at 1200 fps. Fine for revolvers.

But I disagree that "Any load with a bullet of 100 to 120 grains is appropriate for revolvers regardless of when loaded." There was factory ammunition in excess of 1600 fps with 100-115 gr bullets, which Phil Sharpe showed as a 28000 psi load, same chamber pressure as his data for the 80 gr 2000 fps.

Not a serious matter in the 21st century, they have been out of production even longer than the 80 gr Mushroom. But I would not include them in "any" and put them in a revolver.

I cited the 92 Special WHV 115 gr at 1635 fps.
That is not a .32 Winchester Special, it is their .32 WCF product especially for the Model 92 Winchester rifle. One of those heavy bullets I don't consider a suitable revolver load.

My Dad carried a sawn off Police Positive Special .32-20 to defend his streetcar and bus change box. He was not an enthusiast and his cylinder full might be lead, it might be JSP, it might be a mixture. In those days you could buy loose ammo, so whenever he felt like firing a few, he replaced them with whatever was available. I never saw one of those hot hollow points, but the standard stuff was a great plenty in that lightweight gun for a kid.