32ACP bullet question

[stu1ritter]

I have been reloading for more years than I care to count but I don't know the answer here. I'm going to start reloading 32ACP (I have a huge collection of Euro brass) so I ordered everything I needed along with Berry's 71gr plated round nose which come sized to .312. My Euro brass has all had .309 bullets as spec'd by the CIP unlike our SAAMI which specs .312. So, the question is, has anyone ever tried resizing the plated Berry's down from .312 to .309??? I was thinking of sizing them (lubed) thru a Lee .309 sizing die.

thanks,

Stu

 

[DWalt]

Note that the SAAMI spec for the .32 ACP bullet is actually 0.3125-0.006". So the minimum spec bullet is 0.3065".
I believe you are worrying about a nonexistent problem as any bullet diameter in that range will be OK. You are probably not planning to shoot any .32ACP pistols in a match where something like finding the best bullet diameter might be significant to your score.

 

[stu1ritter]

I was mainly thinking about the Euro brass, its construction and how it would take a .312 bullet. I would love for this to be a non-existent problem and was looking for feedback.

thanks,
Stu

 

[DWalt]

If a loaded round with a .312 bullet chambers in your gun OK, you can use it. That is my feedback.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Your idea would probably work, I have "shrunk" plated bullets that much. That being said, it is almost certainly not necessary. Load a hand full and see if it gives you any problem. It probably won't.

 

[walnutred]

Many swage down slightly oversized bullets in the final crimp stage without thinking about it. I regularly shoot .358 in my 9x19 and have no problems with function. The Berrys you mentioned using in 32 ACP have worked fine for me without trying to swage them down.

 

[Alk8944]

The Berry bullet can be loaded in any .32 ACP brass, regardless of source. You are worrying about a non-existant problem.

 

[stu1ritter]

Thanks folks, we'll go from here.

Stu

 

[Krogen]

What is the diameter of your expander plug? If you do decide to size down the bullets at some time, you may find your cases are too large to hold the bullets tightly.

 

[GypsmJim]

I stopped using Berrys because half of the calibers I tried were undersized, yielding to poor accuracy. Measure them - you might be surprised.

 

[DWalt]

Many swage down slightly oversized bullets in the final crimp stage without thinking about it. I regularly shoot .358 in my 9x19 and have no problems with function. The Berrys you mentioned using in 32 ACP have worked fine for me without trying to swage them down.

For a lead bullet, being a little oversized may not be a problem so long as the loaded round feeds and chambers satisfactorily. I remember one time many years ago I came into 1000 158 grain .358 RN lead bullets for free, but I had no .38 Special revolver at the time to fire them in. However I was handloading for the .38 Super which uses a nominal bullet diameter of 0.355". What to do? I loaded up a small number of .38 Super cartridges with the .358 bullets with an estimated light and safe powder load and found that they worked in my .38 Super pistol just fine. I eventually loaded and fired all of those .38 Special bullets in my .38 Super without incident.

 

[glenwolde]

For a lead bullet, being a little oversized may not be a problem so long as the loaded round feeds and chambers satisfactorily. I remember one time many years ago I came into 1000 158 grain .358 RN lead bullets for free, but I had no .38 Special revolver at the time to fire them in. However I was handloading for the .38 Super which uses a nominal bullet diameter of 0.355". What to do? I loaded up a small number of .38 Super cartridges with the .358 bullets with an estimated light and safe powder load and found that they worked in my .38 Super pistol just fine. I eventually loaded and fired all of those .38 Special bullets in my .38 Super without incident.

I've used a few hundred .358 bullets in the 9mm.

 

[DWalt]

Some get concerned about things like that, but I do not. Over the years I have fired many oversized bullets without incident, e.g., firing .311 jacketed bullets in a .30-'06 rifle. And firing .323 bullets in a .318 barrel. Has anyone else read the story in Hatcher's Notebook about his firing .45 ACP cartridges in a M1903 rifle?

 

[HKSmith]

I have had some experience with this problem and discussed it on this forum about 6-7 years ago. European .32 ACP brass is significantly thicker than American or Brazilian brass. I loaded some Fiocchi and S&B brass with .312 FMJ bullets from Magtech. The loaded rounds were visibly bulged and would not chamber in 3 different guns (2 Walthers and a SIG). I don't think this is a safety issue. I solved the problem with a Lee .309 sizing die, which made it possible to generate .309 bullets which worked perfectly in the Euro brass. I still use .312 bullets in American brass. The bulged cartridges chambered in a Model 30, so I got rid of them that way.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

What is a model 30?

Ivan

 

[stu1ritter]

HKSmith, thanks, that was my concern. Most of my brass is Fiocchi with some RWS.

Stu

 

[HKSmith]

What is a model 30?

Ivan

The S&W Model 30 is a .32 Hand Ejector made after 1957. They were chambered for the .32 S&W Long cartridge, but will function with the semi-rimmed .32 ACP, although extraction may be unreliable. Mine is a J-frame from the late 1960's.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

I have had some experience with this problem and discussed it on this forum about 6-7 years ago. European .32 ACP brass is significantly thicker than American or Brazilian brass. I loaded some Fiocchi and S&B brass with .312 FMJ bullets from Magtech. The loaded rounds were visibly bulged and would not chamber in 3 different guns (2 Walthers and a SIG). I don't think this is a safety issue. I solved the problem with a Lee .309 sizing die, which made it possible to generate .309 bullets which worked perfectly in the Euro brass. I still use .312 bullets in American brass. The bulged cartridges chambered in a Model 30, so I got rid of them that way.

I've experienced the same thing, when loading bullets larger than .312 in .32 Smokeless Rimless. The Rimrock 76 grain LFP is .313 and it bulges Euro brass (Fiocchi, S&B, Geco) slightly to the point of the loaded round not entering a go-gauge. I did not have chambering or extracting issues, but the chambers in most non-target .32 pistols are large enough to accept the round. The problem was solved by loading that bullet into US brass (RP) which is thinner.

Jacketed .312 bullets can also bulge Euro brass when the bullet enters the case during seating at slight angle, easily done due to the small components. I added a Lee Factory Crimp die to the loading process which resizes the case after seating, and all rounds so loaded will enter a go-gauge. Have had no problems with any .311 or .312 bullets this way, including Hornady 85 grain XTP and various cast bullets. Accuracy is very good.

Hornady still makes a .309 XTP-HP jacketed bullet which I have loaded into Fiocchi brass for use in a steel-frame Colt 1903. This is also an accurate bullet and safe loads duplicate .380 performance in that pistol.

Re Firing .32 Auto in a Revolver: According to C.E.Harris, a well-known retired firearms industry professional and handloader, it is generally a bad idea with guns with a firing pin bushing in the recoil shield such as the S&W. The headspace is excessive with the thin case-head .32 Auto round, and upon firing the case head acts as a piston and drives backwards into the firing pin bushing. Over time this damages it, and causes misfires with regular .32 revolver ammo.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The S&W Model 30 is a .32 Hand Ejector made after 1957. They were chambered for the .32 S&W Long cartridge, but will function with the semi-rimmed .32 ACP, although extraction may be unreliable. Mine is a J-frame from the late 1960's.

Thanks. I have done same, but assumed we were talking a semi-auto and could not think od an automatic model 30 by anyone. I sold my S&W 39 snubby several years ago. It chambered 32 S&W Long (and everything else) with the Hornady Lead SWC;s that were .314" dia. as well as Lyman 3118 (32-20 bullet RNFP in .314)

I prefer to use a taper crimp. The old Lyman "All American" 7/8-14 dies has a roll crimp that seems to bulge cases super easily at the slightest imperfection in case length. So. I have been FL sizing Long, Short, & Auto brass with modern Lyman 32 ACP dies and adjusting for length on taper crimp. I picked up a New/Old Stock of Lyman 32 ACP dies and a 2-cavity 84 grain RN mold for $10 each from the new owners of an old gun store a couple of years ago.

In this weight area, I have 84 gr. RN, 115 gr. RNFP, 120 gr. RN and 120 gr. Spire Point. I have the Lyman 450 Lube/Size press with .308-, .309-, .311-, & .314-inch sizing dies. When needed I cast a large batch of the needed bullet then usually, I size about 500 to the size needed and top off boxes of the other diameters. This allows the same bullets to be used in 30 Lugar and Mauser, the little 32's, 32-20, M-1 Carbine, and 30-30/303 Savage/308/30-06 Plinking loads and 303 British/7.7 Jap/7.65 Arg/ 7.62x54/7.62x 39 Plinking loads. (I just happen to have dies for all those except 30 Lugar.) I used to use Lyman Alox Lube, but about 15 years switched to SPG lube on everything.

I also have the Lee 90 or so grain 32 SWC Tumble Lube mold, and really haven't found a cartridge/gun combo that like it! My velocities run faster than the 32 S&W Long target rounds.

In the Mid 90's I picked up two of the Davis Derringers in 32 ACP. I thought about rechambering them In 32 S&W Long, but never got around to it. I lust load 32 ACP brass with 32 S&W (short) data and lead bullets and use them in Cowboy Action side matches for "Belly Guns". 200 rounds sure seem like a lifetime supply! I find this to be far more accurate than any of my Top-Break 32's.

Ivan

 

[gwpercle]

I would be willing to bet good money that the .312" Berry bullets will work just fine in your resized brass .
I didn't remember having any trouble with bullets when I loaded for a Walther PPK ... many years ago ... the first Handloading Manual I checked , Hornady #8 , listed .311" & .312" bullets in 32 acp section .
Before you resize all those bullets ... make up a few dummies for testing . If the resized brass will hold the bullet with a taper crimp ...that's half the battle ... If they fit into the magazine and manually feed and easilyextract & eject from the chamber ... That's Good !
I would then load a few , powder and primers , for range testing and see what pans out .
I have always found ...bigger to be better ... unless it's too big !
And making things (bullets) smaller is easier than making them larger !

Depending on your pistol , the .312" dia.
... may be just the ticket !

Load Safe,
Gary